Please help Coopers kit

[kronicking]

I am going to brew a coopers IPA kit and was wondering what kind of ABV this will give me and if it is going to be decent tasting. I am going to be adding the following:

1 can coopers 1.7kg IPA
2.2 Lbs light DME
300g Dextrose
1 oz Cascade (hop tea boiled for 15 mins)
2 packs of coopers yeast (7g each)
19-20L water

I am looking for an ABV in between %5.3-6.5 so if this won't do it and you have any suggestions please feel free to do so. I also have more DME and dextrose if needed and can find some more hops also.

Thank you.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

The first thing I want to know is, did the yeast packets come with the kit, and what is the date on the kit itself? Cooper's kits are notorious for their poor yeast, and the main reason is because they are often several years old. Also, the Cooper's yeast is a pretty generic ale yeast, and not really the best for any particular style. You might want to replace the Cooper's yeast with, say, SAFALE-04, or Nottingham, or even a liquid yeast such as Wyeast-1275 if you can find and afford it (I personally use liquid yeast as a rule, but that's because there are more strains available in liquid than in dry; plenty of brewer's use dry yeast and get excellent results).

The second thing I would recommend is to drop the dextrose in favor of doubling up the DME. That 300g (about 10.5oz if I am not mistaken) of dextrose won't make much of a difference in terms of alcohol content, and won't add anything significant to the flavor profile, whereas adding more DME would make it a more robust brew. 5lbs/2Kg of DME plus the can should give a final ABV of around 6.5% (depending on the yeast's attenuation), which is right at the higher end of your goal.

Finally, keep in mind that the Cooper's kits are pre-hopped, and the IPA kit is probably fairly hoppy as it is (it's hard to tell, as the IBU ratings on Cooper's website are given for the concentrate, and the listed value for the IPA is 710 - a staggering figure were it in a regular beer as opposed to a concentrate, but the effect of dilution isn't linear so I don't know what that comes to in the final 20L volume). While the 15 minute extraction of 1oz Cascade (averaging probably 6%AA) should mostly give hop flavor rather than bitterness, it is still adding to the overall bitterness of the beer. How much of a hop head are you?

 

[kronicking]

Thanks for the reply.

I have some Nottingham ale yeast on hand so I guess I will pitch that instead of the coopers yeast packs. I don't understand why the 300g dextrose won't add any alcohol content. Is there any way to tell how much dextrose affects alcohol content in a coopers kit like a calculator or some formula? Also I am nervous to add that much DME seems like a lot to me. Will the DME have any effect on the taste. Also I would think with that much DME I might have trouble with clumps. As for the hops I don't mind if it has too much of a hop flavor. I am not too picky when it comes to the flavor as long as it's better than keystone.

I wanted to add that I am doing 2 brews tomorrow and I would prefer only to use 2.2 Lbs of the light DME since the other 2.2 Lbs should be going to my other brew but if you guys feel that I should use more DME feel free to suggest so. Also I have a lot of extra dextrose on hand and wouldn't mind if I had to use a bit more.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Well, I didn't say the dextrose would have no effect on the alcohol, just that the amount in question wouldn't put you up to the level you were looking for. I used Brew Builder to get a quick-and-dirty result, and (given 3.3lbs LME and 2.24lbs DME) the increase in alcohol was about 0.4% - which, given that the original malt bill brought the ABV to 4.32%, came only to 4.72% with their calculator.

Keep in mind also that IPAs are typically all-malt beers, unlike, say, American light lagers (which generally have corn or rice in them) or Belgian high-gravity ales (which often have a large amount of Candi sugar). To get the full IPA flavor profile, you would want at least 90% of the original gravity to come from malt. The amount of malt extract I quoted, while fairly high, isn't out of range with the style.

If you want, though, you can split the difference, using, say, 3.5lbs of DME and 500g of dextrose (and the Cooper's can of course). That would give you an OG around 1.061, and with the Nottingham yeast, an ABV around 6.0%. It wouldn't be as malty as the other version, but it would probably be a bit easier drinking (though not a session beer by any means).

 

[andy6026]

I brewed the Coopers IPA and it was my first "successful" brew. This is what I used:

the coopers can
1 kg of Medium DME
Nottingham Ale Yeast (rehydrated)
an extra 250 grams of fuggels hops divided between 30 mins, 10 mins and dry hopping some for the last 3-4 days of fermentation.

This is what I noticed:

The hops barely come through on this beer. If you like hoppiness then I recommend you get some cascade or centennial, or something characteristic that you like and add a significant amount as if there's nothing already in it. I also noticed that it had a strong malty bite to it. This mellowed a bit with age, but never disappeared. I attributed it to having used all DME instead of sugar as recommended by the instructions and my LHBS, but I'm not yet experienced enough as a brewer to pinpoint where flavors are coming from.

One of the veterans on (uniondr) here gave me very good advice with that kit - namely, since it's 'pre-hopped', you don't need to do an hour long boil on it - in fact, you shouldn't. I think once I added the can I only boiled for 30 mins (or even less, I don't recall exactly).

In the end the beer turned out 'ok', but was not something I'd be in a rush to brew again. And I'll repeat again, add your own hops and lots of it if you're looking for a something with noticeable hops.

 

[andy6026]

...sorry, if I'm not mistaken I boiled half of the DME extract for 30 mins, and some hops, and then added the can at about 10-15 minutes left before the end of the boil along with the second half of DME (and more hops).

Seriously... add more hops. If I were to do this kit again and I was targeting your alcohol level, I wouldn't necessarily go all DME but use some sugars as well. The malty bite didn't help the brew. But that's just me.

 

[kronicking]

Yea I was kind of worried about a malty bite. Im not sure if I am willing to use more hops on this brew since it is the first time I am using them but will probably use more in later brews. I was wondering with those calculators like brew builder do you just exchange the coopers can for LME and then put whatever else you are adding in and that is the expected ABV?

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

In BrewBuilder, I substituted 3.3lbs. of Briess LME for the Cooper's can, which WRT the amount of malt should have been about the same.

 

[kronicking]

Also I found this calculator online but it seems to be really wonky. I put in the numbers for the 3.5 lbs (1.58 kg) of Dme the 1.7kg of coopers kit for the ingredients kit section and 500g (.5kg) dextrose with 20 kg of water and it comes out with OG 1.071 FG 1.017 ABV %7.7. Is this calculator way off or what? This is the calculator here http://www.whatsbrewing.com.au/pages/beer calc.html

 

[IslandLizard]

15.6g** of sugar / liter will give you around 1% alcohol (ABV), give or take.

300g / 20l ==> (300g/15.6g)/(20l/1l) = 19.23/20 = 0.96% alcohol (almost a 1% increase)

**Note: According to this thread around 16.3g of sucrose (table sugar) is needed for 1% alcohol (ABV):


It will make your beer taste dryer, but without any added flavor or mouthfeel.

Edit:
Use the 2.2# of DME that came with the kit. But if you can add more as formerly suggested, it makes better beer than sugar/dextrose.

I don't know what the instructions tell you, but look around on this forum for "extract" beer recipes and use the same methodology they follow. Making a "hop tea" as you stated sounds very vague.

Your DME should be added to boiling water and the total temp. should remain at around 180° for at least 5 minutes to pasteurize. Same for your liquid extract.

 

[kronicking]

When I say I am making a hop tea I mean that I am going to boil roughly around 2-3L of water (without DME or sugar) and throw the hops in for 15 mins than shut off and remove from heat. I do not plan on boiling the DME since I have not boiled it once in 2 beers I have done and have not had any problems. Also I have saw a lot of videos and forums where they say it does not need to be boiled. I am also using a pre hopped kit which should not be boiled from my understanding. I have looked at some of the extract recipes but most of them if not all that I see add different type of grains such as 2 row and crystal malt etc. and do not wish to add any of these things but I will keep looking around. Thank you.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

In BrewBuilder, I substituted 3.3lbs. of Briess LME for the Cooper's can, which WRT the amount of malt should have been about the same.

Blast; I just realized that the 3.3lb figure is significantly off, it should be around 3.75lbs. Thus, my figures were all wrong. Sorry. Given that amount of LME, then my first recommendation is dead wrong. My second, using 3.5 lbs DME and 500g dextrose, should still be in the right range, though about 0.4% ABV stronger than I originally thought.

 

[kronicking]

For some reason when I plug in the numbers on brew builder I get %5.37 ABV and OG 1.055. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I put in the following:

Briess Golden Light Liquid Extract 3 lbs, 12 oz

Briess Golden Light Dry Extract 2 lbs, 3.2 oz

Corn Sugar 1 lbs, 0 oz

1 Danstar Nottingham Ale Yeast

Volume 5 gallons

EDIT** Never mind this post I accidentally put 2lbs DME instead of 3.5lbs

 

[IslandLizard]

You don't need to boil the DME or LME. Just keep at 180°F for 5 minutes to pasteurize. Or 165° for 10 minutes.

And you're right, the Coopers LME has hops and flavor in it, so you really don't want to "boil" that.

The extract recipes you mention use specialty steeping (or even partial mash) grains. Omit those, since they come from your can's extract.

I would probably boil only half the hops for 15 minutes, and add the last half at flameout. Let them steep while cooling with a good occasional stir (hop stand).
If you like hops, double those amounts, if you can, for more flavor and aroma. IPAs ride on hops.

Also, a good IPA can always benefit from an ounce or 2 of dry hop (e.g. Cascade), after fermentation is done, and starting 7 days before bottling.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

BTW, do you have any means of keeping the temperature of the fermenting wort between 60 and 70 degrees F? Experience shows that brewing in the summer without suitable temperature control is a Bad Idea; even thermophilic yeast such Ardennes (Wyeast 3522) can go off the rails in temperatures above 80 deg. F. Now, I know most houses in Pennsylvania have cellars of some kind; if you're in a house with a cellar it should keep the temp. adequately low even in June. If not, you might want to put together a swamp cooler to get the temperature of the wort down, or even build a fermentation chamber like the Son Of Fermentation Chiller. Definitely worth the investment.

 

[kronicking]

I don't have any means of keeping it a constant temperature. My last 2 brews my stick on thermometer has told me 75 degrees. I placed my carboy downstairs for a half a day (the temp was a little lower than 68 degrees) and for some reason got really antsy because the yeast was not active yet and decided to bring it back upstairs. I think I might try doing this one downstairs because it is a little warmer now. Also I live in Canada but Winnipeg so we get really hot and really cold. Hopefully I won't need a contraption of some sort later on. My house seems to stay cooler than houses with air conditioners most of the time.

** thought I might add I am using a better bottle carboy (plastic)

 

[unionrdr]

1st of all,Cooper's cans should never be boiled for any length of time. It turns flavor & aroma additions to bittering,besides darkening the color. The Cooper's IPA is also English style IPA. More bitterness than big hop flavors,like American IPA.
I used to brew a lot of Cooper's,& would add 3lbs of plain light DME to the recipe. This usually gave me about 5.3%ABV. I do 2.5-3.5 gallon boils with 1.5-2lbs of the DME for any flavor/aroma hop addtions. Then at flame out,quickly stir in the remaining DME & the Cooper's can. Off the heat of course,since the LME will go straight to the bottom while stiring. Then cover & steep a few minutes while I set up the ice bath. This gives the hot wort a chance to pasteurize,since it's still close to boiling hot,&pasteurization happens about 160F. Then chill wort down to about 75F.
I then strain it into the fermenter,which gets out any fine grainy gunk & aerates it. I also keep a couple gallons of local spring water in the fridge at least one day before brewday. I use this to top off to recipe volume in the fermenter,since it'll get the wort temp down to low 60's.
And contrary to what most people think,Cooper's ale yeast can be a beast. Rehydrate those two Cooper's ale yeast packets for 30 minutes,stir resulting cream,& pour into fermenter after taking hydrometer sample. I've done this many times,& it's needed a blow off on ocassion. But the lower initial wort temp should slow that down to where a blow off may not be needed. Keep the fermenter temp down to mid 60's,no higher than about 69F,& the Cooper's ale yeast will do a great job. It's also a high flocculation yeast,so it'll give a clear beer by settling out well. I have a AE recipe using a Cooper's can for my BuckIPA in my recipes under my avatar.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

And contrary to what most people think,Cooper's ale yeast can be a beast.

Not being personally familiar with it myself, I was mostly recommending that the OP check how old it was. As I said, the main reason for the poor rep Cooper's yeast has is because it often has been sitting on an unrefrigerated shelf for a year or more, which is enough to stress any yeast. I also pointed out that it's a fairly generic yeast strain, rather than one specifically selected for pale ales, which may not give the best results for the style. Given that you've had experience with the strain, I will bow to your greater knowledge.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,it is basically an English style yeast,giving off fruity esters that are common over there. And yeah,old yeast can be a gamble if you don't look at the date on the can. They use Julian dating at Cooper's. Anyway,I bought a can of Cooper's OS Lager to use in a recipe at my lhbs. Got home to find it was 2 years old! Ok,I thought,I'll tuff it out & brew it anyway. I made a small starter for the yeast. Added hops & 3lbs of Munton's plain light DME.
I called it summer ale,being ready at that time. Pics are in my gallery. It came out looking & tasting like a session version of Salvator Doppel bock.
But that old yeast worked real well from that starter. I guess it shows how tuff the lil yeasties can be...