Please help a kegging newbie-CO2 coming out of beer in liquid line

[KaanX]

This is an example of the problem:

(Don't mind the perlick on the keg, I'm going to build a collar this weekend)

I was experiencing the same problem with picnic tap, was thinking that it will go away with a proper faucet, but no luck.
Here is my setup :
12 psi constant pressure applied to kegs for 1.5 week, which is also the serving pressure
~1/4" (6mm) ID-9.5 feet (3m) beer lines
Tried upping the pressure to 16 psi, same problem
Tried lowering the pressure to 8 psi, again same problem.
Filling the glass takes approximately 5 seconds.

What should I try next to get proper pours? No matter what I try 90% of the glass is foam. I'm getting pretty wasted while trying different pressures and pouring methods

 

[KaanX]

New info: I switched the kegs, the left keg is a bourbon barrel aged arrogant bastard clone.
No problems with this one, a perfect pour.
After that I switched again to the IPA(right keg), and have the same foaming problem.
What may be the cause of this?
Can it be a hop particle stuck somewhere? Seems not to be likely to me because the foaming starts in the middle of the beer line.
Any opinions?

 

[indymedic]

I've only been kegging for a short time so I'm not expert. But, I think you have a kink or something in your line or in the dip tube or post that is impeding the flow and making it foam up. Could be in the liquid QD also. I would pull it all apart and check for cleanliness, reassemble and try again. It doesn't sound to me like its a pressure problem.

Hopefully this helps or someone with more experience chimes in.

 

[kev211]

My guess would be the liquid post. Sounds like you have something in the poppet or otherwise. I doubt its the liquid QD since you got a clean pour on your Arrogant Bastard clone. Do you have any spare posts lying around that you could try? Or maybe switch posts between the kegs?

 

[KaanX]

Liquid QD is the same(I disconnected it from right keg and connected to left keg), it does not cause any problems with the keg on the left (Brown Ale).
It's either the beer itself (never heard of such a thing), or a problem with the right keg.
It's interesting that the left keg (without problems) is a refurbished one, and the right keg (with problems) is a new one
If it's a problem with the keg, why does it foam in the middle of the beer line??

 

[indymedic]

My guess would be the liquid post. Sounds like you have something in the poppet or otherwise. I doubt its the liquid QD since you got a clean pour on your Arrogant Bastard clone. Do you have any spare posts lying around that you could try? Or maybe switch posts between the kegs?

I agree about the QD. I posted wi thought seeing his second post. Has to be in the keg itself.

 

[kev211]

I highly doubt this its a problem with the keg itself. I would definitely try swapping the liquid posts. The reason I think that you're having issues with your IPA is the hops. Since IPA's are so heavily hopped they seem to have a great tendency to have leftover hops behind and they can get stuck in the poppets

 

[mongoose33]

Are you certain you are not overcarbed?

If, when you "switched" kegs, you change the QD using the same line and faucet on each keg, that narrows things down a lot.

Three things come to mind:

1. You're overcarbed even though you don't think you are.

2. There's something wrong w/ the poppet inside the post, hop debris, who knows. Release pressure and pull the post and dip tube. Cover opening w/ something to keep nasties out, then pull apart post. Inspect the dip tube. CLean both, soak or spray w/ Star-San, then reassemble.

3. There's a pinhole toward the top of the dip tube or there's some sort of gas leak that is admitting CO2 into the dip tube or poppet along w/ the beer.

Your lines seem long enough, but if you're not having the same problem on the other keg, then these above are possible causes.

 

[KaanX]

Both kegs are connected to the same regulator via a CO2 distributor manifold (same psi on both kegs, IPA sits for one week, Brown ale sits for 1.5 week on 12 psi)
I only disconnect the liquid QD from IPA and connect to the Brown ale, and the problem is gone.
That makes me think that there is a problem in the keg itself, but I wonder why the bubbles come out of solution in the middle of the beer line? Maybe it has a delayed action?
Is there a way to check the IPA keg's diptube and liquid post?
If I disassemble it, the beer foams over because it's carbed inside. Should I transfer the IPA to another keg (I have a spare keg lying around)
Or should I just finish this keg, accepting it's foamy and try to do better with my next IPA's?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Is there a way to check the IPA keg's diptube and liquid post?
If I disassemble it, the beer foams over because it's carbed inside. Should I transfer the IPA to another keg (I have a spare keg lying around)
Or should I just finish this keg, accepting it's foamy and try to do better with my next IPA's?

If your beer is not overcarbed, it should not foam over from opening the keg.
You should be able to
1: Disconnect the gas line
2: open the pressure release valve
3: Unscrew the liquid post (er even open the lid if you wanted to)...
all without the beer foaming out (provided you do this all expeditiously and don't let the beer sit around and warm up, which will cause off-gassing).

If you open the beer and it foams out, your beer is overcarbed, IMO.

Anyway, if you do all that, I would disassemble and inspect the poppet and liquid post assembly.

If that doesn't reveal anything, one last possibility is that your liquid dip tube or your tubing are not clean on the inside and are full of nucleation sites.

 

[kev211]

Are you certain you are not overcarbed?

If, when you "switched" kegs, you change the QD using the same line and faucet on each keg, that narrows things down a lot.

Three things come to mind:

1. You're overcarbed even though you don't think you are.

2. There's something wrong w/ the poppet inside the post, hop debris, who knows. Release pressure and pull the post and dip tube. Cover opening w/ something to keep nasties out, then pull apart post. Inspect the dip tube. CLean both, soak or spray w/ Star-San, then reassemble.

3. There's a pinhole toward the top of the dip tube or there's some sort of gas leak that is admitting CO2 into the dip tube or poppet along w/ the beer.

Your lines seem long enough, but if you're not having the same problem on the other keg, then these above are possible causes.

I thought about overcarbing, but I find it hard to believe that 12psi could over carb anything. But who knows, Im sure stranger things have happened haha

Both kegs are connected to the same regulator via a CO2 distributor manifold (same psi on both kegs, IPA sits for one week, Brown ale sits for 1.5 week on 12 psi)
I only disconnect the liquid QD from IPA and connect to the Brown ale, and the problem is gone.
That makes me think that there is a problem in the keg itself, but I wonder why the bubbles come out of solution in the middle of the beer line? Maybe it has a delayed action?
Is there a way to check the IPA keg's diptube and liquid post?
If I disassemble it, the beer foams over because it's carbed inside. Should I transfer the IPA to another keg (I have a spare keg lying around)
Or should I just finish this keg, accepting it's foamy and try to do better with my next IPA's?

If you have a spare keg lying around can I assume you have another liquid post lying around? If so, sanitize it, dissconnect the keg from Co2, pull the prv to release headspace pressure and swap the posts. If you have a SWMBO or a friend (or a screwdriver) you can use one of them to keep the prv open the whole time during the swap. This will help alleviate beer from foaming out the dip tube (ask me how I figured this out). Then try connecting it back to co2 and see what happens. The reason I think you're seeing bubbles at the middle of the line is cuz thats just where they are settling. They come out of the QD all swirled up with the beer then rise to the highest point (similar to head at the top of a pint glass)

 

[KaanX]

Cavpilot2000, I did it exactly like you described, and cleaned out the diptube and liquid output post. There was no hop debris or any other obstructions there.
Connected it again, still CO2 coming out of solution in the middle of the beer line
That's the main question, if there were any imperfections/nucleation sites in the diptube, the beer should come out of the post with bubbles.
But that's not the case, the bubbles form in the middle of the liquid line?

Again after the cleaning and disappointment, I wwitched to the Brown ale, no problems. A perfect pour (90% liquid, 10% head, nice carbonation).
I'm frustrated as hell, and decided to finished this keg foamy
I'll keg another beer tomorrow (ESB), and look how it will turn out.

 

[kev211]

That's the main question, if there were any imperfections/nucleation sites in the diptube, the beer should come out of the post with bubbles.
But that's not the case, the bubbles form in the middle of the liquid line?

Read my above post. They probably are coming out with bubbles, you just cant see the bubbles in solution. I still say that you should try a completely different liquid post

 

[KaanX]

Update:
I have another spare keg lying around, and switched the diptube and liquid post with the spare keg.
This is the result:

I highly suspect that this IPA is cursed, becaused it's the only variable left

 

[indymedic]

I highly doubt this its a problem with the keg itself. I would definitely try swapping the liquid posts. The reason I think that you're having issues with your IPA is the hops. Since IPA's are so heavily hopped they seem to have a great tendency to have leftover hops behind and they can get stuck in the poppets

My bad. By keg itself I meant the post and or poppet. Thanks for making that clear.

 

[indymedic]

Update:
I have another spare keg lying around, and switched the diptube and liquid post with the spare keg.
This is the result:

I highly suspect that this IPA is cursed, becaused it's the only variable left

Did you drain the line out before you connected it back to the keg?

 

[kev211]

I take back what I said then haha. Now Im leaning towards over carbed. Have you tried turning the serving pressure down? Or even better... Turn off the gas, purge the keg prv and tried pouring using only the co2 pressure from the beer.

 

[kev211]

Did you drain the line out before you connected it back to the keg?

This ^^. This is a very valid point

 

[KaanX]

indymedic, I didn't drain it out. I'll try it.
kev211, yes, I turned the pressure down, and brought bach to serving pressure (12 psi) before pouring.

 

[kev211]

indymedic, I didn't drain it out. I'll try it.
kev211, yes, I turned the pressure down, and brought bach to serving pressure (12 psi) before pouring.

No Im saying, try disconnecting the Co2 completely, pulling the prv and then serving. It may not change anything, but it might also help diagnose possible over carbonation

 

[KaanX]

Update: I drained the line out, reconnected, no change. 90% foam on IPA, perfect pour on Brown Ale.

 

[kev211]

What about trying a different serving line on the IPA? The QD could just be sitting on the post weird on the IPA and letting air in. Kind of a long shot, but at this point I feel like weird things are probably most likely the culprit. Maybe try swapping the brown ale and IPA lines

 

[KaanX]

No Im saying, try disconnecting the Co2 completely, pulling the prv and then serving. It may not change anything, but it might also help diagnose possible over carbonation

Captain's log, star date 2017.
I released the pressure on the IPA keg by pulling the prv valve, tried various pouring pressures. Foamy beer.
Brown ale is still good.
I think that I'm gonna throw out this keg out of the window

 

[kev211]

I think that I'm gonna throw out this keg out of the window

That probably wont help the foaming issue

 

[KaanX]

What about trying a different serving line on the IPA? The QD could just be sitting on the post weird on the IPA and letting air in. Kind of a long shot, but at this point I feel like weird things are probably most likely the culprit. Maybe try swapping the brown ale and IPA lines

I already swapped out the IPA post with another spare keg, problem persists.
I'm too wasted to swap the Brown ale and IPA posts, because I drank 5 pints of 8% IPA-Brown ale trying to resolve this issue
Maybe tomorrow...

 

[kev211]

I already swapped out the IPA post with another spare keg, problem persists.
I'm too wasted to swap the Brown ale and IPA posts, because I drank 5 pints of 8% IPA-Brown ale trying to resolve this issue
Maybe tomorrow...

No, not the posts. Try swapping lines. Like disconnect the QD line from the IPA and move it to the brown (since we know that it pours fine), and move the brown line over to the IPA. Its a long shot, but who knows

 

[KaanX]

I only have one line, and I'm swapping it between kegs

 

[kev211]

I only have one line, and I'm swapping it between kegs

Oh. Then get more lines haha

 

[KaanX]

FYI I also changed the liquid QD of the very single line I have. No change.
I highly suspect that there is something with the beer.
Bu it tastes so good (even if it's flat )

 

[kev211]

Im thinking that its overcarbed now. Try degassing it and see what happens.

 

[indymedic]

Im thinking that its overcarbed now. Try degassing it and see what happens.

Got busy at work but had to check in. With all the troubleshooting that's been done I would agree. It has to be an over carb issue. Good new is that you caught a mid day buzz.

Degas and try again in 24 hours

 

[bleme]

Normally a beer wouldn't over-carb at 12psi but could it be possible the IPA wasn't completely done fermenting and kicked back up when it was kegged?

 

[KaanX]

OK, I'll try degassing and letting it settle for a day.
After hours of fiddling with connectors, posts, hoses and diptubes, the only logical conclusion is that the beer is overcarbed as you say.

 

[mongoose33]

Geez, I thought i posted this last night, apparently forgot to hit "Post."

I was intrigued by the "5-second" pour, so decided to time my own pour to see what I'd get.

Ten Seconds. That was a 12-oz glass with about 3/4" of head on it.

Since KaanX is pouring in five seconds, that suggests there's a lot of pressure behind that beer. The lines should be long enough to provide enough back pressure to combat foam.

I once had a foaming problem similar to KaanX's. As part of the diagnosis process I bought a pressure gauge, attached a barb to it, then connected it to a Gas QD. That would let me see what pressure I had inside the keg. The idea is to let the keg sit for 24 hours so the headspace reaches an equilibrium with the carbonation in the beer. Put the pressure gauge on the gas post, and voila! You can see where you're at.

Pic below. How did it get overcarbed? If the regulator is inaccurate, that's one way--though the fact that the other keg is not overcarbed pretty much scotches that theory. Another way is what Bleme suggests above--the beer wasn't finished fermenting and sealing the beer in a keg carbonated it similarly to how it happens in a bottle.

While the pic below probably isn't helpful now for KaanX, it might be something to acquire parts for and build so the next time, there's a way to test.

 

[PapaO]

Start with this first. http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/
If you want to use 1/4 in. beer line you will need 40 ft. or 11 ft. of 3/16.

PapaO

 

[mongoose33]

Start with this first. http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/
If you want to use 1/4 in. beer line you will need 40 ft. or 11 ft. of 3/16.

PapaO

I think that is overly conservative. The usual rule of thumb I'm aware of is 10 feet of 1/4", 5 feet of 3/16".

I have exactly that on my system, both 1/4" and 3/16" and they work fine.

 

[max384]

Your system isn't balanced. Switch to 3/16" ID line and I bet your problems resolve. Start at 12' and decrease length as needed if you find your pours are too slow. For me, 10' of 3/16" ID line running 12 psi is perfect.

 

[max384]

I think that is overly conservative. The usual rule of thumb I'm aware of is 10 feet of 1/4", 5 feet of 3/16".

I have exactly that on my system, both 1/4" and 3/16" and they work fine.

I've never heard of this rule of thumb, and I highly doubt it could be correct. 3/16" tubing has roughly four times the resistance per foot of 1/4" tubing. Thus, it wouldn't make sense to only have twice as long of a line when switching from 3/16" to 1/4".

 

[mongoose33]

I've never heard of this rule of thumb, and I highly doubt it could be correct. 3/16" tubing has roughly four times the resistance per foot of 1/4" tubing. Thus, it wouldn't make sense to only have twice as long of a line when switching from 3/16" to 1/4".

I've actually read that several places.

All I know is that 1/4" at 10 feet works on my system, and 3/16" at 5 feet works as well. I'm sure 3/16" at 10 feet would work, just pour slower everything else being equal.

All that aside, OP swapped the serving line w/ the keg that pours fine, and since it works fine there, that suggests to me it's not the line that's the problem.

 

[frettfreak]

after reading through this post, looks like over carb to me. though i would definitely try going to 3/16 beer line on a shorter run anyway. I had an issue like this once but it ended up being an airleak at the shank and tap that was messing things up.