Plain cider or should i add honey?

[SHAIV]

Ok. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. I thought I'd get a few other opinions from people that know more than me because I can't really find much info on this.
Ok so I was thinking about making a gallon of cider with 1 pound clover honey and then making a 3 gallon batch of regular cider and maybe add 1 pound of corn sugar. I have all the ingredients already. I will be using safcider cider yeast. Also i have 2, 5 gallon carboys and a 3 gallon carboy I have multiple 1 gallon carboys and a 1.4 ish gallon glass bubbler. So I guess instead of doing 2 batches I could just do 4 gallons juice 1 pound sugar and 1 pound clover honey all in one carboy and then top up the secondary to 5 gallons. Which way would you do it and why? Thanks

Edit I also have some d47 I guess I could make a nice 1 gallon cyser with the honey

 

[madscientist451]

If you are new to cider making, I'd run some experimental batches using your 1.4 gallon fermenter. Do one without any additives, one with honey and the next with corn sugar and see what you like/don't like. Start with 1.25 gallons cider, then transfer to your 1 gallon jugs for secondary. Or, if you want to, do a 3.5 gallon batch in your 5 gallon carboy and siphon that to your 3 gallon carboy. What are you using for apple juice to start with? You can make a yeast "starter" in one of your 1 gallon jugs and some juice, and then use 1/3 of it for each of your experimental batches above. Try to find a cool spot for fermentation, preferably below 65F.
Don't worry if it goes slow. Good Luck.

 

[Evilgrin]

Ive made couple cider batches with just a pound of honey. I like them very much after some aging. I have one bottle saved that will be a year old in October. The bottles that made it to 6months were quite good also.

I was not totally thrilled with the Safcider yeast although it was not terrible. If i use it again i will ferment colder. I liked it better than the Brewer Best Cider House yeast.

 

[SHAIV]

Yes I am fairly new to cider making. I am using some store bought "fresh pressed" pasteurized unfiltered apple juice without any additives. The ingredients are apple juice and that's it
I was thinking about using pectic enzyme to help it clear
Also I thought safcider has a wide temp ability? I know most yeasts do better at a lower temp but not sure if I could swing 65 because it's like 90 or higher outside in the heat of the day and it's not even summer yet

 

[Maylar]

Personal preferences here, but - Don't add any sugar to your cider. Fermenting warm with high gravity almost always leads to fusel alcohols that will take a long time to age out. A typical cider will be about 6.5% alcohol and that's more than the commercial ciders.

As for the honey, a gallon of cider with a pound of honey should start at about 1.088 and give you 11.5% ABV cyser with a wine yeast. I would go that route.

 

[thelema5]

If you are new to cider making, I'd run some experimental batches using your 1.4 gallon fermenter. Do one without any additives, one with honey and the next with corn sugar and see what you like/don't like.

This is really the way to go. The plain batch will act as a base-line control so you know how your juice and yeast work together, and then you can compare the batches with honey and corn sugar to the plain one.

You'll notice a distinct difference. The plain one will most likely have the best apple flavor, the honey batch (a cyser) will have a more robust texture and will retain a honey flavor, and the corn sugar batch will probably be a bit thinner but with a higher ABV.

It really depends on what characteristics you're shooting for. Good luck!

 

[z-bob]

I have made just one batch of cider that I'm really proud of; just apple juice and Cote des Blanc yeast. No sugar added except to prime the bottles. It's about 6% ABV, and dry but still tastes and smells like apples.

When I've added sugar and used a more aggressive yeast (like Premier Cuvee or champagne yeast) the result was drinkable but not good; there was no "apple" left.

When I tried ale yeast (S-04) and just a little sugar, it ended up heavy and kind-of sweet and tasted weird -- and the bottles didn't carbonate. This should have been the best combination but it wasn't. I'd try it again, but the Cote des Blanc yeast is a lot cheaper and worked so much better I think I'm gonna stick with that.

 

[SHAIV]

So I guess the consensus is that if I want the apple taste don't add anything. That makes sense because I made a gallon of apple wine and a gallon of cyser last year and they were both pretty bland tasting and I was left with little to no apple taste. I used lalvin wine yeast for those and they were both pretty high in alcohol. I think I may just do the juice by itself. I took a gravity of the filtered juice of the same brand and it was 1.050. So the unfiltered should be at least that high if not higher

 

[ajdelange]

Patience! My wife dropped a comment the other day about the bottles of cyser in the basement. I responded that she must be mistaken as we finished those years ago but she was right. There were two bottle of 15 yr old stuff down there. We popped one that night and man, was it good!

 

[thelema5]

So I guess the consensus is that if I want the apple taste don't add anything.

Yes. Think of adding extra sugars as watering down your must- you're increasing the total volume, so the apple flavors get diluted. The yeast will ferment out any added sweetness, after all.

It's a constant trade off: do we want a higher ABV, or deeper flavors?

Whenever I'm putting a recipe together I try visualize the volume of any added sugars as if it were water, and then I ask myself how much water I would be willing to add to my cider.

The answer is usually a lot less than what I originally projected when starting to put the recipe together.

 

[eigua]

I've always wondered if you could get a super appley taste by using mostly frozen apple juice concentrate instead of normal juice. I haven't done it because I can't find any that doesn't have added vitamin C, which I would think would make it too sour being concentrated. I've considered reducing 2 gallons of pure apple juice down to 1 gallon by boiling off water, but I haven't gotten around to doing this yet.

 

[SHAIV]

That's an interesting thought. Although it may work I thought boiling cider was a no no. I have heard of freeze distillation that may be what most do to get what you are trying to achieve. Again not exactly sure about all that I may be wrong

 

[eigua]

That's an interesting thought. Although it may work I thought boiling cider was a no no. I have heard of freeze distillation that may be what most do to get what you are trying to achieve. Again not exactly sure about all that I may be wrong

They say that because boiling sets the pectins which = haze. However, I don't think this applies to already cleared apple juice. That applies to pressed apple cider which still has a lot of solids I believe. I boiled the heck out of my Kirkland apple juice + honey cyser and it cleared with zero haze and I didn't use any pectic enzyme. Also, you can reduce liquids without boiling if you're concerned about a change in taste. Just keep the temp high enough to give off a little steam but not high enough to boil and cook it for a longer time. I eventually plan on trying a concentrated apple juice cider, but I'll probably just boil it away on full blast.

I don't think freeze distillation would work well since there's no alcohol in the mix, unless you meant doing it after fermentation. Normally the alcohol runs out of ice because it's not frozen, carrying with it flavors and residual sugars. But since this is just apple juice, I don't think the water would separate from the rest of the apple sugars/flavors.

 

[z-bob]

I've used a mix of apple juice and apple jelly to make wine before. Did not add any pectic enzymes, and it cleared just fine. That pectin was certainly boiled and set.

 

[SHAIV]

If I were to boil apple juice I'd be very inclined to throw hops in... might something I need to try

 

[eigua]

I've used a mix of apple juice and apple jelly to make wine before. Did not add any pectic enzymes, and it cleared just fine. That pectin was certainly boiled and set.

Glad to know I'm not the only one.

If I were to boil apple juice I'd be very inclined to throw hops in... might something I need to try

Sounds good. Woodchuck has a cider with hops in it. I bought one years ago but never tried it. I hear mixed things about it.

 

[SHAIV]

I've had angry orchards hop n mad but I could not taste any hops

 

[buzd]

I've had angry orchards hop n mad but I could not taste any hops

That one is drier than the regular AO, but yeah, the hop flavor is pretty minimal.

The Woodchuck Hopsation is a much better product and quite good, though different.

 

[eigua]

I've had angry orchards hop n mad but I could not taste any hops

Then that definitely sounds like something worth trying. I'm generally not a big fan of super bitter brews like IPA, but I think a hopped cider might be really good with a nice floral aromatic hop and some sweetening after opening.

I just had a really interesting thought... I have had an idea to make a variety of flavored syrups for use in cider to sweeten it and flavor it after pouring. That way you could pick whatever flavor you feel like that day and not have to brew 10 different ciders. A hopped sugar syrup would be a fun one to try. I'm also experimenting with making my own extracts using 95% ABV grain alcohol. Hop extract would be fun to try making.

 

[SHAIV]

They have hop shots it's like a little syringe filled with hop oils
Also I like hops for thier aroma and flavor not nessesarily the bitterness

 

[eigua]

They have hop shots it's like a little syringe filled with hop oils
Also I like hops for thier aroma and flavor not nessesarily the bitterness

How interesting! I found this one online that claims to be similar to dry hopping. I know you can extract essential oils from some things using alcohol and then evaporating it. More fun stuff to try!

 

[SHAIV]

You found a virus? Don't click the link above. It's a scam. My phone said I got a virus from clicking that link

 

[eigua]

You found a virus? Don't click the link above. It's a scam. My phone said I got a virus from clicking that link

It's just a homebrewing store. Just because your virus scanner says the site may have malware doesn't mean you got a virus. I used to build and maintain websites for a living and there were many times that a site got flagged as malware incorrectly by some of the free scanners like Avast and AVG. Sometimes it wasn't an error though, but it usually only meant that the site itself was compromised because of some script injection, etc. because of a vulnerability in the CMS used to build the site or one of its plugins. I would then have to go through and clean off the infection from the site and update the CMS and all the plugins to prevent a recurrence.

Anyway, neither Google nor Kaspersky report any problems with that site.

 

[thelema5]

If I were to boil apple juice I'd be very inclined to throw hops in... might something I need to try

I've had a few regional dry-hopped ciders which were quite good. The Woodchuck variety was too sweet for my tastes, but I liked Angry Orchard's attempt.

I have an ounce of cascade hops waiting in my fridge; I'll be adding some to a gallon of my basic cider recipe next time I rack some. I hear the secret to a good hopped cider is moderation. I'll have to see how this batch goes.

 

[SHAIV]

I've got some hops on some vines on the side of my house. Might be something I could use some for in august or September.

 

[SHAIV]

I mean bines not vines lol

 

[SHAIV]

So I made 4 gallons this morning. I want more apple flavor so I did not add any sugar. (Though I'm sitting here drinking some apple wine I bottled on Christmas eve that's like 15%) it's starting to bubble already. I added the pectic enzyme and yeast nutrient. I think it may turn out pretty good. I may add campden before I rack to secondary then top up with another gallon of juice for sweetening

View attachment 1465439456348.jpg

 

[SHAIV]

How interesting! I found this one online that claims to be similar to dry hopping. I know you can extract essential oils from some things using alcohol and then evaporating it. More fun stuff to try!

OK no virus alert this time. Dang that stuff is expensive! Yeah I bet that's like hop shots. I've got 2 at the house for my double ipa kit I need to brew

 

[Ezemcgee]

I've got about 5 gal of my first apple cider bubbling away. I would like to add honey for flavor (I've got local suppliers in NC and FL from which to choose). How much should I add to get the flavor but not raise ABV much more? I didn't even think of adding initially because I assume it's like beer infusions where the flavor gets lost if done before racking. Should I dissolve it in a water solution prior to adding? Should I just wing it and call this 5 gal an experiment and kick myself for not starting smaller [emoji51]?

 

[Dimax]

Ezemcgee, What is that numbered dial on your fermentation jug?

 

[Ezemcgee]

That's a dial they put on the lid that's only really useful when you have several fermentations going at the same time and started them or need to transfer on different days. Basically a way to mark the fermenter with month and day of pitching.