"Piggy-backing" Starters?

[Hobanon]

Sorry if there's already a thread that addresses this. I tried searching but didnt get the answer to my question.

Would you think it better (for the yeast) if I were to ferment with perpetual starters rather than washing yeast from the primary cake?

For instance, I have been saving te last few drops of my starters after pitching, boiling more DME, and pitching the dregs to make another starter, while ultimately tossing the yeast cake from primary/secondary.

My thinking is that the yeast in my starters will never be as stressed as the cells from my fermenter, as they always get fed low-gravity wort and never have to completely ferment a full batch.

Aside from less effort, do I have any real advantage in this process? Do you think my generations are remaining less-mutated with this process? I don't know anything about microbiology, but I feel like I'm being smart with this idea...

 

[kiwihomebrew]

I recently read a blog about something like this on brulosophy (.com I think). But instead of rep itching dregs of a starter, create a bigger starter and keep a quart aside before pitching to your wort.

Same theory, the yeast at starter is never going to be as stressed as a washed yeast from a brew.

I'm trying it at the moment. Got a little over 3L on the stir plate and need about 2.8L for my brew at the weekend. Will put aside a quart to redditch at bottling (it's a 10.2% belgian - trying to be authentic)

 

[KOamps]

I do this sort of thing since it's how I would do it in the lab. Make a 200 billion starter like normal, save half, then double the leftovers again to pitch. I keep the saved yeast in the fridge in mason jars and repeat as needed. We'll see how many passages I can do before the flavor profile changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[gwaugh]

I've been reading the yeast book from Chris White and here are a few things I learned.
Yeast from a re-pitch is actually more viable and acclimated to the wort than a fresh starter. Many brewers feel they get their best batches from the 3rd or 4th re-pitch. So unless you are re-pitching from a very high gravity batch the yeast is not stressed, it's actually acclimated and very viable.
I'm not sure about making a larger stater than needed and then reserving some. There is a section in the book with figures on diminishing growth with starter size. Basically there is a limit to how much growth you can get but it's been awhile since I read it so I will have to go reread that section again.

 

[jammin]

Ive done both several times and prefer to pitch slurry. fwiw - you can always make a starter with slurry if you're worried about it's viability

 

[Hobanon]

I've been reading the yeast book from Chris White and here are a few things I learned.
Yeast from a re-pitch is actually more viable and acclimated to the wort than a fresh starter. Many brewers feel they get their best batches from the 3rd or 4th re-pitch. So unless you are re-pitching from a very high gravity batch the yeast is not stressed, it's actually acclimated and very viable.
I'm not sure about making a larger stater than needed and then reserving some. There is a section in the book with figures on diminishing growth with starter size. Basically there is a limit to how much growth you can get but it's been awhile since I read it so I will have to go reread that section again.

This actually makes a lot of sense now that I read it - the few times I've pitched onto a yeast cake, the batch began fermenting within 24hrs, whereas with a starter I don't usually notice vigorous activity until around 36-48hrs.

 

[gwaugh]

If you're confident in your sanitation it is better to rinse the yeast before re-pitching because you aren't carrying over as much of the trub and any dead yeast.