PicoBrew Zymatic

[banjo-guy]

I've had a few very minor issues with my Zymatic and customer support has been very good. I am really worried about problems that occur out of warranty. A one year warranty for such a high tech and expensive to repair piece of equipment seems really short. If the unit has to be shipped back for repair how much will that cost from NY? I'm sure it will be as much as the repair. The fact that there have been some substantial repair issues makes me dread the day when I have an issue that I can't fix with phone support.

I would pay for an extended warranty but I don't really think I should have to given how much this unit costs.
I love the Zymatic but I hope it holds up over over time .

 

[Calichusetts]

I've had a few very minor issues with my Zymatic and customer support has been very good. I am really worried about problems that occur out of warranty. A one year warranty for such a high tech and expensive to repair piece of equipment seems really short. If the unit has to be shipped back for repair how much will that cost from NY? I'm sure it will be as much as the repair. The fact that there have been some substantial repair issues makes me dread the day when I have an issue that I can't fix with phone support.

I would pay for an extended warranty but I don't really think I should have to given how much this unit costs.
I love the Zymatic but I hope it holds up over over time .

This 1000%

A lot of new appliances with major electronic/digital components literally come out and say the device will probably have issues after 3-5 years of use. This product is so new and after reading a few stories, gets me really leery. I got my eye on brewie at the moment, but would love to see a second generation of this device come out one they get a good bearing on what the major issues tend to be

 

[Josh1275]

I've got to echo the comments about PicoBrew's awesome customer service. The top screen on the mash compartment of the step filter had a small tear on arrival and they swapped it out no questions asked.

I've only had one fatal error #1 and I was able to use one of my recovery program recipes to pick right back up after a slight delay.

I'm torn on the idea of a longer warranty, from a operational perspective I like the idea. I don't have to worry about the device, and someone else owns the risk. However from a financial perspective I'm not sure I'd like to see that added cost in the unit's price or in an extended warranty. Going from a 1 year to 3-5 year warranty would have to add substantial cost.

What I'm going to be interested to see is availability of repair parts and how field repairable the unit will be out of warranty... I've got to believe that a lot of the parts and assemblies are fairly straight forward to swap out given this is a low volume production unit (compared to say a dishwasher). IFixit.com should do a tear down!

The brewing process is fairly rough on equipment (high temperatures, liquids, low PH, solids, etc), so I don't have any illusions that repairs will be necessary along the way. I think the non-boiling approach will end up making this more durable over the long run, removing steam from the equation should help prevent moisture from getting into unexpected places in the unit.

6 brews in comparing it to my old BIAB rig my initial reaction is that the Zymatic is more durable. Heck it seemed like I had to fix, tweak, replace or adjust something on my old rig every brew day. That doesn't include assembly before and disassembly after.

 

[bobbytuck]

What I'm going to be interested to see is availability of repair parts and how field repairable the unit will be out of warranty... I've got to believe that a lot of the parts and assemblies are fairly straight forward to swap out given this is a low volume production unit (compared to say a dishwasher). IFixit.com should do a tear down!

.

Agree! The issue I ran into is that much of the Pico is user-fixable -- but the pumps, apparently, aren't. That's the main reason why I had to send it back (twice now).

Pico support sent me illustrated PDFs on how to remove the top and re-lubricate and adjust the stepper arm. I've also heard that the LCD screen is user-replaceable, too. The repairs I did to the stepper arm required removing a bunch (12?) screws on the back and then removing 4 internal screws. Unfortunately, two of those screws are very hard to reach -- so I needed an extension (from Amazon) in order to reach them.

The stepper arm calibration was pretty simple -- but very delicate. There's an optical sensor there and some more screws -- so I had to sort of force myself to pay really close attention to everything.

In a Picobrew V2, I'd like to see a more modular approach to everything in the machine -- including the pumps. I'd like to be able to replace anything -- and then recalibrate anything -- without having to send the machine back. Sorta like how DIY computer cases are these days (and how they've always been, more or less) -- everything has its place, and everything is swappable and upgradable. In fact, I'd wish they'd take this same approach as "brewing unit as computer case" -- and make it simple to unscrew and remove and swap out stuff.

I suspect one reason they don't do this is because they don't want warranty hassles. I understand that -- especially if I swap in something incompatible.

It does dawn on me, though, that as these all-in-one "wort machines" become more popular -- the issue will be -- and will always be -- durability. I'd hate to think of these things -- Brewie, Pico, Grainfather -- as disposable electronics -- sorta like my iPhone. Any brewing setup -- BIAB, 3-vessel HERMS/RIMS, electronic machines -- takes a heckuva lot of abuse -- both from the constant temperature requirements as well as the sticky end-product wort. If these machines have a limited lifespan, then I think they ought to offer optional extended warranties. In my case, Pico has been great -- but I'm still within the 1 year window. I want this thing to last several more years -- so I'm not sure what the outlook there will be.

 

[Josh1275]

Agree! The issue I ran into is that much of the Pico is user-fixable -- but the pumps, apparently, aren't. That's the main reason why I had to send it back (twice now).

Pico support sent me illustrated PDFs on how to remove the top and re-lubricate and adjust the stepper arm. I've also heard that the LCD screen is user-replaceable, too. The repairs I did to the stepper arm required removing a bunch (12?) screws on the back and then removing 4 internal screws. Unfortunately, two of those screws are very hard to reach -- so I needed an extension (from Amazon) in order to reach them.

The stepper arm calibration was pretty simple -- but very delicate. There's an optical sensor there and some more screws -- so I had to sort of force myself to pay really close attention to everything.

In a Picobrew V2, I'd like to see a more modular approach to everything in the machine -- including the pumps. I'd like to be able to replace anything -- and then recalibrate anything -- without having to send the machine back. Sorta like how DIY computer cases are these days (and how they've always been, more or less) -- everything has its place, and everything is swappable and upgradable. In fact, I'd wish they'd take this same approach as "brewing unit as computer case" -- and make it simple to unscrew and remove and swap out stuff.

I suspect one reason they don't do this is because they don't want warranty hassles. I understand that -- especially if I swap in something incompatible.

It does dawn on me, though, that as these all-in-one "wort machines" become more popular -- the issue will be -- and will always be -- durability. I'd hate to think of these things -- Brewie, Pico, Grainfather -- as disposable electronics -- sorta like my iPhone. Any brewing setup -- BIAB, 3-vessel HERMS/RIMS, electronic machines -- takes a heckuva lot of abuse -- both from the constant temperature requirements as well as the sticky end-product wort. If these machines have a limited lifespan, then I think they ought to offer optional extended warranties. In my case, Pico has been great -- but I'm still within the 1 year window. I want this thing to last several more years -- so I'm not sure what the outlook there will be.

It sure sounds like they are thinking about the post warranty situation with the repair instructions. The pump situation is interesting to me, that seems like it would be the easiest thing to replace since at it's most basic you have input, output and power. Something like the stepper arm and associated positioning controls definitely seems more complicated and less field repairable. I'm sure when the time comes to open the machine it'll make more sense to me.

I really think you're onto something with the idea of swappable, modularized parts. The core section of your machine, effectively the mash tun and hops management system, would define the brand. The rest of the components could/should be almost hot swappable. I'd gladly trade a larger size unit for more field repairability. That being said, I'm feeling more and more confident as I see people with 50+ batches on the machine being successful.

Perhaps a better way to look at these machines is more like an aircraft, I don't really care how long I own it but how many cycles i put on it. A unit like this should be expected to last some number of cycles before heavy maintenance (maybe even depot level where you HAVE to send it back in to pico brew for a rebuild). Perhaps they could even train their retailers to conduct that type of rebuild... If you brew twice a month, or 25 times a year roughly, getting 100 batches before a rebuild would seem perfectly reasonable. There seem to be people well on the way to hitting that number. That's 4 YEARS of brewing for someone brewing less often.

I wonder what pico brew is seeing from the data they are gathering on failure modes, MTBF, and who's on top of the leaderboard for most batches...

 

[Yeasty_Boy]

Hi folks. I snagged one of the last Zymatic refurbs during their recent Kickstarter campaign and am looking forward to receiving and using the machine. Here's the catch: I've never brewed before.

I've done enough research to know what I'm getting myself into, but I obviously have much to learn. For starters, I bought myself a copy of John Palmer's "Learn to Brew" and will certainly read that. But, now I need to gather all the other "stuff" that I need and/or should have. So, what do you recommend as "must haves"? My primary limitations are climate (cold for 5 months of the year) and space (100+ year old house).

I appreciate your input and experience. Thanks!

 

[jrcrilly]

Hi folks. I snagged one of the last Zymatic refurbs during their recent Kickstarter campaign and am looking forward to receiving and using the machine. Here's the catch: I've never brewed before.

I've done enough research to know what I'm getting myself into, but I obviously have much to learn. For starters, I bought myself a copy of John Palmer's "Learn to Brew" and will certainly read that. But, now I need to gather all the other "stuff" that I need and/or should have. So, what do you recommend as "must haves"? My primary limitations are climate (cold for 5 months of the year) and space (100+ year old house).

I appreciate your input and experience. Thanks!

You might consider pre-ordering a Pico to get started with. While the Zymatic automates much of the hot side process, it does require you to make all the hot side decisions (grains, adjuncts, hops, hop schedule, mash temp and duration, etc) and you still need to manage the fermentation and dispensing on your own. I'd recommend buying ingredient kits (such as http://www.mountainhomebrew.com/picobrew2.5gallonrecipekits.aspx ) at first; that would eliminate the need for a grain mill and would ensure a tested recipe and brew day schedule. If you do that, the first aquisition priorities will be on the fermentation and serving side. You'll need a way to control fermentation temps, and a way to get the beer out of the fermenter. That could be either a bottling or a kegging setup (or both). A hydrometer and wine thief will help to ensure that you know when to remove from the fermenter.

 

[sablesurfer]

If I were to get a machine from Craigslist, what should I be looking for?

- any parts that "should" come with the machine, like the keg and jacket and hoses or stuff like that.
- parts of the machine to make sure it has, like hop baskets, etc
- how to tell if newer machine vs original or does that matter?

This would save me that $200 in shipping from Pico.

 

[Loodachris]

Adventures in homebrewing is $1999 and free shipping plus you get 2000 points which is $100 to spend for whatever. Can't beat that for brand new plus extras. Ordered mine then used the points for 2 3 gallon kegs with ball lock conversion for free

 

[CrankyOldLibrarian]

I've had a few very minor issues with my Zymatic and customer support has been very good. I am really worried about problems that occur out of warranty. A one year warranty for such a high tech and expensive to repair piece of equipment seems really short. If the unit has to be shipped back for repair how much will that cost from NY? I'm sure it will be as much as the repair. The fact that there have been some substantial repair issues makes me dread the day when I have an issue that I can't fix with phone support.

I would pay for an extended warranty but I don't really think I should have to given how much this unit costs.
I love the Zymatic but I hope it holds up over over time .

If you paid with a credit card, you might automatically have an extended warranty. Check your credit card's benefits.

 

[truthrider]

I just checked my Capital One account. It puts the warranty to Two years on my soon to ship Zymatic and later to ship Pico. Good stuff. Thanks for the reminder Cranky

 

[Baja_Brewer]

If you paid with a credit card, you might automatically have an extended warranty. Check your credit card's benefits.

I just checked my Capital One account. It puts the warranty to Two years on my soon to ship Zymatic and later to ship Pico. Good stuff. Thanks for the reminder Cranky

Sweet, same with my discover... Hope its valid even though I paid through the Amazon payments system they had their preorders on.

Got my replacement step filter, already lost one of the little rubber tabs. Have a brew set to go this afternoon. Ran a pump test and got a flow rate of about 0.5gpm which I believe is normal. Used keg lube on all of my seals so hopefully I don't get any fatal error #1s today.

 

[sablesurfer]

Well, I followed the advice of using Adventures in Homebrewing. Got a new Zymatic and used the points for two new kegs for only $59.

I was waiting to hear about the developer's membership, because that comes with 15% off...but maybe I need to just get used to the machine first before going whole hog for close to $3k.

 

[sablesurfer]

Just checked shipping, my machine should be here before xmas!!

Noticed it said three packages. The mailroom might not be happy.

What should I expect, are they super heavy? Will they fit in back seat of a crown vic cop car?

 

[Loodachris]

Yes the main box with the machine in it is quite large and heavy. The other two are much smaller. I still have the main box if you need measurements?

 

[pagrider]

Wish I was so lucky. I ordered off the Kickstarter campaign and initially they said 15 units a day would be shipped then a day later 5. So no idea when I am getting mine. It did say on the pledge it would arrive in December so there is still hope. Hoping to brew during my time off after Christmas. fingers crossed

 

[jrcrilly]

I believe they are currently shipping 10 per day, including both the developer units and the refurbs. That would total about 110 units. Which one are you waiting for? I'm awaiting a refurb and my pledge number is around 1000 so I'd guess there are quite a few ahead of me.

I'm guessing that even if they get mine shipped this year the transit time to Ohio will keep it from arriving before January.

 

[pagrider]

10 per day that's actually laughable. You would think they would have packaged everything ahead of time based on the orders.

 

[jrcrilly]

Given that they shipped their 1000th unit only this year, the 100 or so units involved in this program must represent at least a month of normal production/shipping. They received the orders and buyer contact info only this week so I'd say they are doing pretty well if they are already shoving 10 per day out the door (while still maintaining normal operations and getting ready for the Pico release). They could, of course, scale up personnel and warehousing to support 100 per week, or 100 per day, but they are unlikely to generate that level of normal sales any time soon so it would be a bad investment.

 

[pagrider]

I am sure they knew all this when they said December delivery. Maybe they will meet the promise.

 

[Josh1275]

Just wanted to share my shipping experience for those folks with the refurb/developer units. My unit went UPS ground when I bought it. So it's reasonable to assume that the kickstarter units will as well. Unless your in a couple of counties of New York state (not sure why), UPS will get it from Seattle to where you are in 5 business days. So as long as they ship by about the 23rd, you should have you unit by the end of the year. Given they have already shipped a bunch of units it seems like they still have a fighting chance to get then all into UPS in time... Not saying they will get all of them out, but it seems like a decent bet.

Here's the map I was talking about. Thanks to UPS for their snazzy time in transit map in case they want attribution...

 

[pagrider]

Thanks still holding out hope to picobrew during the holidays

 

[Loodachris]

So I got everything set up to brew a dark saison and the damn machine will not get a wired or wifi signal! Multiple router, modem and pico reset's and I get nothing no signal no nothing! So frustrated at this point. Had leaking everywhere because the step filter cracked but was quickly fixed by support and a new step filter but now an internet problem. This is only my 4th brew! Can't imagine what happens when the machine gets old. For sure the wifi on this machine is garbage. When the connection worked last time I would get 1-2 bars with the router 10' away max and direct line of sight. Really want to test my new XD on this box right now!

 

[jd-santaclarita]

Hoping I get my Zymatic refurb sometime soon. Wanted to get a few recipe kits ready to go and wanted to make sure I start with some solid known good recipes. I'm in socal, where do most folks get recipe kits for the zymatic? (assuming there online already configured to scale for the zymatic). Would love some recommendations to get me going. Thanks all, JD

 

[pagrider]

So I got everything set up to brew a dark saison and the damn machine will not get a wired or wifi signal! Multiple router, modem and pico reset's and I get nothing no signal no nothing! So frustrated at this point. Had leaking everywhere because the step filter cracked but was quickly fixed by support and a new step filter but now an internet problem. This is only my 4th brew! Can't imagine what happens when the machine gets old. For sure the wifi on this machine is garbage. When the connection worked last time I would get 1-2 bars with the router 10' away max and direct line of sight. Really want to test my new XD on this box right now!

That stinks. Hope it all get worked out for you.

 

[Loodachris]

Well after a couple days working with the awesome folks at Picobrew they figured out that one of the recipe's I had copied to my brewhouse had some steps in it that the machine and recipe builder didn't like which caused my machine to not download any recipe because of potential harm to the machine. Frustrating but a very good safety feature. I had 2 people helping me from Friday until Sunday and about 10pm the problem was fixed. Didn't get to brew on Friday but I will today. Outstanding customer service once again and now I know what not to do on my recipes.

 

[sablesurfer]

Got one part of my three items today. (Seems UPS would rather use three trucks to get stuff here, every one has different status today.)

My machine got here, but the shock sticker was red. This appears to be a bad thing. Anyone got thoughts? It was delivered to a loading dock, so I did not sign for it.




...AAAAAAANNDDDD...this is why I buy real cars that are car shaped!

 

[Loodachris]

Mine was red. No worries it's packaged well

 

[johnsnownw]

Got one part of my three items today. (Seems UPS would rather use three trucks to get stuff here, every one has different status today.)

My machine got here, but the shock sticker was red. This appears to be a bad thing. Anyone got thoughts? It was delivered to a loading dock, so I did not sign for it.

View attachment 324250


...AAAAAAANNDDDD...this is why I buy real cars that are car shaped!

View attachment 324249

You should take it to a real car wash, too

 

[MTtoAZ]

Sable. What was your backer number? I haven't heard anything and I was in the low 400's. Guess there will be no unboxing for Christmas here.

 

[pagrider]

Sable. What was your backer number? I haven't heard anything and I was in the low 400's. Guess there will be no unboxing for Christmas here.

I think he ordered it from a retailer. I haven't heard anything either and i was in the 400's as well. Hoping there is an unboxing before the New Year but its not looking good

 

[sablesurfer]

Sable. What was your backer number? I haven't heard anything and I was in the low 400's. Guess there will be no unboxing for Christmas here.

I think he ordered it from a retailer. I haven't heard anything either and i was in the 400's as well. Hoping there is an unboxing before the New Year but its not looking good

Yeah, I started to feel bad when I saw that there were people still waiting. I ordered through AIH. Did you both back the original kickstarter? That would seem extremely weird to me that this would happen.

 

[sablesurfer]

A recipe thread?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7291756

Not sure if one existed, but didn't see it with a bit of scrolling. I need input on that pale ale recipe that comes with machine.

 

[MTtoAZ]

Yeah, I started to feel bad when I saw that there were people still waiting. I ordered through AIH. Did you both back the original kickstarter? That would seem extremely weird to me that this would happen.

I jumped on a refurb in the most recent Kickstarter. I missed the boat the first time and couldn't pass up a unit with full warranty for $1300.

 

[pagrider]

Seems like the people who buy retail jump us in the system that could be the reason for the delay. Would be great if they gave us an update

 

[pagrider]

bumped into a buddy who ordered the combo with a new zymatic his pledge was in the 150 range and he was not happy with the lack of communication. He said he has emailed and not gotten a response. I find myself feeling the same way. I am guessing that if they are sending out a paltry 5 a day of refurbs they should all be shipped by the end of the year.

 

[jrcrilly]

Between the holidays and CES the next week or two are not going to be typical for them. I'm too busy to brew right now anyway (relocating my office) so it is not a big deal for me. I'm in the low 900's for a refurb so you folks should hear before I do. I'll be sufficiently pleased if mine ships this year. Once the move is completed and the weather turns evil it will be a larger concern; I will be ready to start refilling the pipeline in January and I probably won't want to brew outside.

 

[sablesurfer]

I'm in the low 900's for a refurb so you folks should hear before I do.

Wait, that is a lot of refurbished units going out. Disturbing.

 

[jrcrilly]

There are only 70 refurbs and maybe 40 of the development combo. They are being shipped in pledge order.

Most of the folks ahead of me in line are Pico buyers who won't affect my shipment.

 

[MTtoAZ]

Wait, that is a lot of refurbished units going out. Disturbing.

Shouldn't be. My understanding is that the vast majority of them are demo units that they sent out to bloggers and such so reviews could be written up.

I think they said that they have sold over 1000-1200 Zymatics in the 2.5-3 years that the Zymatic has been the market. If those 70 units were duds and not test units then yes I would be concerned about a 5-7% failure rate.