PicoBrew Zymatic
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The key to DMS removal is wort agitation. Boiling will obviously agitate the wort. But the constant recirculation of the Z does the same.
Marshall and his crew are dear friends and we collaborate on a lot of stuff. But I'm sure he would tell you, like I am, that those experiments provide data points, not conclusions. The key to science is repeatability. If you do an experiment once, you have a data point. If you do it many times with basically the same results, you may be able to draw a conclusion.
Batch #5 is in the keg and ready for yeast! Another flawless brew day with the Zymatic. Did a chill to 175, 25 minute whirlpool in the keg, and chill to pitching temp. My clone attempt of Gumball Head should be ready in a few weeks...now to hunt down a couple of bottles of the real deal to taste against...
Cheers!
Cheers!
MaCheFai
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Just wanted to circle back after my first pour on the Z. The Pico Pale ale came out pretty nice! A little sweeter and slightly higher Abv than expected, but overall is nicely balanced and smooth.
Wanted to also confirm, the keg provided by the Z does in fact have a shorter stem post on the out, which was nice for the transfer to serving!
And rather than buying several picobrew fermentation tops, I decided to make my own by adding a bubbler to a gas ball lock. I prefer keeping the wort nice, clean and locked up.
Also wanted to see if anyone has used a carb stone? I used one on mine, but still took me a couple of days to carb at 11psi. Just curious to see if anyone had a similar experience or can offer advice on dialing in carbonation.
Lastly, has anyone played with gelatin in their smaller batches? Curious to hear your experience with using it in a smaller 2.5 gal batch.
Next up we have 2 Freshed Squeezed batches. One is baseline and one is dry hopped with citra and mosaic and maybe gelatin for comparison's sake. Super excited!
Wanted to also confirm, the keg provided by the Z does in fact have a shorter stem post on the out, which was nice for the transfer to serving!
And rather than buying several picobrew fermentation tops, I decided to make my own by adding a bubbler to a gas ball lock. I prefer keeping the wort nice, clean and locked up.
Also wanted to see if anyone has used a carb stone? I used one on mine, but still took me a couple of days to carb at 11psi. Just curious to see if anyone had a similar experience or can offer advice on dialing in carbonation.
Lastly, has anyone played with gelatin in their smaller batches? Curious to hear your experience with using it in a smaller 2.5 gal batch.
Next up we have 2 Freshed Squeezed batches. One is baseline and one is dry hopped with citra and mosaic and maybe gelatin for comparison's sake. Super excited!
I use gelatin in my smaller batches, although I rarely brew less than 3 gallons on the Z and usually 3.5. I always use a 1/2 tsp of gelatin in a 1/4 of water, whether it's a 5 gallon batch or smaller. Works well.
MaCheFai
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Thanks for the tip! Videos I saw online show some really great results using gelatin. Although I know results can be deceiving based on the recipes.
Has anyone tried biofine? I just ordered some to use in a fresh squeezed clone.
stainlessbrewer
Well-Known Member
Baja Brewer do you own a Zymatic or a Pico? If so what specifically have they done to make you post nothing but negative comments. The machine works, the editor needs some work but still does the job, the support from the company has been outstanding from my experience. If your emails to them are like your posts here I am not surprised you don't get the answers you want.
Just FYI Brewie is made in Europe with no immediate plans for US distribution or service centers, what kind of hardware support do you think they'll offer to US customers?
Just FYI Brewie is made in Europe with no immediate plans for US distribution or service centers, what kind of hardware support do you think they'll offer to US customers?
stainlessbrewer
Well-Known Member
It is only 1/2" to 3/4" shorter than normal dip tube so might be more difficult to tell. It should be cut.
Ok folks, more proof that you can use against the nay-sayers who claim Zymatic cannot brew a good beer. I know this is not the first instance, and it will certainly not be the last, but that doesn't make me any less proud of my Z, and the support from the PB team getting to this level.
Very honored to have won an award for one of my beers at the prestigious Peach State Brew Off yesterday. Not just an award but a gold medal no less, for Ealing Common, a Kentucky Common based on a historical recipe.
Very honored to have won an award for one of my beers at the prestigious Peach State Brew Off yesterday. Not just an award but a gold medal no less, for Ealing Common, a Kentucky Common based on a historical recipe.
Congratulations... are there any particular practices you have with the Z that are different from the usual processes?
Baja_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Consider my tone to be whatever you wish, but I have already discussed a good number of points in my posts. I'm going to let you go back and re-read my posts on your own, because I think I've made all of those things you asked fairly clear and it doesn't seem like you actually read them. Post #977 might be of particular interest to you, and my thread here, which actually has less to do with the Z as time goes on. If you're still confused after actually reading my posts, you may want to consider that I started a conversation, others chimed in, PB chimed in, and updates have been made and are being considered.
I haven't emailed them in a while - the only issues I had were a cracked step filter and air in the HEX loop, the latter of which Kevin was super helpful and diligent in resolving. There was really no point in emailing to say "whats up with updates".
Baja_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Great stuff! Anything particularly complicated about the recipe? How many versions did you go through before you nailed it down? Historical recipes fascinate me.
Congrats! A zymatic beer also took gold in NHC with a score in the mid high 40s.
For the Kentucky Common recipe I do use the "whirlpool" technique of using the hop cages during cooling. Otherwise, pretty much by the book
Just used the special "whirlpooling" technique, otherwise standard Z process. This was the second brew of hat recipe, did not change much between the two. Guess I got lucky
Stefan
I don't think I am at NHC level yet, although PSBO is pretty big for the SouthEast. This KY Common scored "only" 40 to get the gold, my Berliner Weisse, (also Z brewed) actually reached 43, but no medal. European sours was a hot group this year.
bigmike99
Well-Known Member
Sheesh this is a lonnnng and mostly informative thread. Is there anywhere that has a more streamlined tips and tricks from users for me to browse?
Hopefully going to move ahead shortly with grabbing a Z after symbolic approval plus selling my ebiab setup. If anyone has a coupon code that may work please let me know. I'm looking at used mostly but a good coupon might send me to the new side of a purchase.
Hopefully going to move ahead shortly with grabbing a Z after symbolic approval plus selling my ebiab setup. If anyone has a coupon code that may work please let me know. I'm looking at used mostly but a good coupon might send me to the new side of a purchase.
cheesemonster
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When you get your Z, there is also a forum on PicoBrew that is helpful too. Just following the basics that are given in the https://picobrew.com/About/brewingvideos.cshtml videos is enough to do pretty much all you want to do including chilling with a coil chiller. I found it very easy to get started. After that you get into other things like using the advanced recipe editor to do things like whirlpool hops, and brewing double batches.
This is one mega long thread but the PicoBrew owner's forums are more broken up and have a lot of info as well.
bigmike99
Well-Known Member
Thanks
MaCheFai
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How about I provide you with symbolic approval? I fully approve of you purchasing this magical beer making machine.
Oh, and add this fat discount code to the promo field at checkout: zymatic300
Now, if that isn't symbolic enough, then I don't know what is! You're welcome.
MaCheFai
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Is anyone else having issues with their yield totals? On my first 2 batches I've noticed significant losses to my output; on the order of 1/2 gal+. I assume this probably has to do with poor efficiency, but was curious to hear if others have experienced similar results. I expected some loss with FG testing, racking, etc, but didn't expect such a high percentage loss! May start producing recipes for 3gal yields to expect an actual 2.5gal batch.
Anyone experienced similar?
Anyone experienced similar?
I've only run two batches through mine so far, both had poor efficiency on the order of 50%, but I think that's expected. In both cases I've gotten around 2.75 gallons into the fermenter (I transfer into mini brew buckets) though from 3.7 gallons of strike water.
Try measuring the weight of the keg pre-ferment so that all those other losses you mentioned aren't factored. I've had pretty damn accurate preferment volumes and gravities using the picobrew predictive recipe maker.
I typically run 3.5 gallon batches (60+ so far) and beyond normal loss due to yeast and dry-hopping I haven't noticed the final serving Keg being that off of my expected volume, Occasionally some yeast strains seem to make more sludge, but the biggest loss I find is from massive dry-hopping. But I've never measured the loss.
As far as efficiency goes when I put my recipe into Brewers Friend 72% Brewhouse Efficiency tends to match up with the Recipe Crafter and my OG/FG readings. But there have been a few batches where I don't get great circulation and my OG will be a tad low 1.058 vs. the recipe estimate of 1.060
As far as efficiency goes when I put my recipe into Brewers Friend 72% Brewhouse Efficiency tends to match up with the Recipe Crafter and my OG/FG readings. But there have been a few batches where I don't get great circulation and my OG will be a tad low 1.058 vs. the recipe estimate of 1.060
What are you doing to get that high an efficiency? I've done 2 batches so far and both were ~50%! I milled my grain at 0.045 which is fine on my 3v system (mash eff up in the 80s there).
Should I run the high efficiency mash schedule? I've only used the regular schedule so far and the high efficiency schedule looks like it does an acid rest around 100F, but I don't understand why that would affect efficiency that drastically?
BurntOrngeLonghorn84
Well-Known Member
Are you doing the 90 minute mashes? Others have found 60 minute mashes don't cut it for the Z. I personally do a 90min mash + 30min mash out.
Yes 90 min mash. Sometimes I bump the mash out to 20min, but I have only done that recently.
My last two brews were 64.1% and 65% measured efficiency and I hit the numbers spot on with what Beersmith calculated. I use the Advanced Editor and dough in at 120 for 20 minutes and mash for 60 at my desired mash temp and then mash out and boil. I have also done a three step mash for well over 90 minutes and hit 65% measured. I am getting just north of 3 gallons per batch, which is perfect for me. If I really like the batch, I can re-brew in time for that keg to kick! What helped me was setting my mill gap to 0.045-0.048 and using the two/three step mash.
This is all good info... I'll have to try a mash out on an upcoming batch, just to see what affect that has alone. I don't yet understand why a rest at 100 (HE mash) or 120 (stonebrewer) would affect efficiency for an all-barley batch, but you can't argue with the numbers!
My last two brews were heavy on wheat...one a Hefe and the other a Gumball Head clone, thus the protein rest (which some say is not needed...but may help to gelatinize the starch and make enzymatic actions more efficient). I do not think the 120 protein rest mattered as much as the opening up of my mill gap, but if it did it was likely due to the longer mash time...even at 120 you have some enzymatic action going on...and you increase fermentability the longer you mash as long as you do not denature the enzymes. One other thing I did not point out is PH and its role...I ensure a PH around 5.4 for most of my beers by adding phosphoric acid prior to mashing. There are also arguments for thinner and thicker mashes depending on the style being brewed. I think I am getting better efficiency using a thinner mash on the Z, but I do not have enough brews on the system to say definitively yet. I would love to hit efficiency numbers north of 70% with this system and have great control and repeatability! Must be time to brew again! Cheers!
Yup, I manage pH religiously on my 3v system so that's carried over to the Z. The 120 rest makes sense now that I understand you were using wheat. I'll have to do some test batches with recipes that can go higher than expected... I can always dilute later.
You might be onto something, now that I think about it, with the mash out. Contrary to popular belief, there is still enzymatic activity during mash out...it does not instantly denature all enzymes. That might lend credence to the theory that mashing longer on the Z increases efficiency. I may do an experiment and mash longer just to see if I can crack 70%...cheers!
A mash out usually does raise efficiency but from what I recall, it's usually because of the wort being 'thinner' and easier to drain, so you extract more of the sugars that may normally be left in the grain. That and I'm sure you may pick up some points on the way to the mash out as the alpha amylase goes into overdrive.
Yup, if I have a "complaint" it is that my yields are often lower than expected. So I always put 3 gallons in the Recipe Crafter, usually end up with six bottles and a 2 1/2 gallon keg that is between 75 and 90% full
BlackDogBrew
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Hey Steve,
I tried hitting you up on the PicoBrew forum yesterday with the following question:
Have you experienced any negative affect on foam by using that long and low a dough in?
Sorry, physics doesn't work like that! Heat will not increase efficiency until you reach the limit of solubility at a lower temp. At typical mash temps, the SG would have to be in excess of 1.300 in order for hotter wort to dissolve more sugar into it. https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/6-common-homebrew-myths-denny-conn/
I stand corrected; not sure where I picked up that erroneous info but thanks for teaching me something new 
Negative effects, no. There was certainly more foam with these wheat heavy brews than my normal ales, which I really did not notice until I started to whirlpool hops on the Gumball Head clone. I saw a tiny amount of foam come into the foam trap, but it was like a tablespoon or so. Or are you referring to head retention/foam? That I can't answer as the kegerator is currently filled with other beers...might know next week if a keg kicks so if the beers are thin and headless, I will definitely report back, assuming that is what you are asking. Cheers!
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