PicoBrew Zymatic
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Baja_Brewer
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I flashed using parallel's+windows 7 tonight - flash utility installed without a hitch and but after I finished uploading the 1.1.9 firmware hex file it said it failed- but the Picobrew said it was sucessful and I had to reload my wifi network. Easy peasy.
Also found this tonight linked from the Picobrew site. The author there (Nicholas, I presume) gives credit and show's his step by step screen shots with a bit of text. Basically you use Arudino development tools to push the hex file over USB - pretty straight forward if you've done any shell/terminal work before.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k16j99q0grjjv4d/Firmware Updates via OS X.pdf?dl=0
Yes, I've done this and I find the results to be mediocre. I'm pretty sold on the good old fashioned hop stand in the wort instead of through the adjunct compartments.
Here's a screenshot of the advanced editor when I've whirlpooled through an adjunct compartment:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1433125006.973244.jpg
And here are my notes for the whirlpool step. Note that I used an IC for this. Again, I did not get the results wanted, but the process is solid. And yes, they need to fix the bug that wipes out adv editor changes if you edit the recipe needs to be fixed.
Recipe Notes
- At pause after boil, add 1 oz of El Dorado flameout hops to adjunct compartment 3. Then, connect chiller.
- Begin the chill step but do not immediately immerse chiller in cold water. Let it circulate for 30 minutes with chiller on the counter. Then, place chiller in cold/ice water and chill to 65 degrees.
Baja_Brewer
Well-Known Member
PSA: this is now listed on AIH's site homebrewing.org with free shipping and their points system (%5 back) meaning that you save $160 in shipping vs buying it from PicoBrews site and can get $100 worth of points (enough for 2x3 gallon pinlocks and conversion posts.)
Good luck deal hunters!
Good luck deal hunters!
Grrr...one week too late.
Baja_Brewer
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... I know- I hesitated to post it for your sanity....
Ha!
bobbytuck
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Thanks for posting this. I will try this next time I make a hoppy beer. One question: why add the hops to the compartment after the boil pause? Why not simply put the hops in compartment 3 when you load everything else at the start of the brew?
I'm confused.
Baja_Brewer
Well-Known Member
This. The process shown in the catfish 120 is putting them in Adjunct 1 so you don't continue to flow over your boil hops. With your method there is very little reason to pause- just make the cooling cycle go through 3....
Brewinator
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But doesn't the IC cool the wort too much to extract flavor/aroma, or are you doing a hop stand first, then chilling?
I'm pretty much an IPA guy, and if one can't brew great IPA's with this, it would be a deal-breaker.
Baja_Brewer
Well-Known Member
AIH code DAD10 for 10% off just went live through 3PM 6/9
Just checked and it works on the PicoBrew (for now- bet they lock that down)That's $2k-10%-$50 Giftcard & $90 in points+ free shipping. Considering what I paid for shipping (more than they quoted now), that's less than the preorder cost.
You can definitely just add your hops to the compartment when you load everything else at the start of the boil.
I cool to 180 or so, hop stand for 30 minutes, then finish chilling down to pitch temps.
My last IPA using this method turned out fantastic. Really happy with it and I wouldn't hesitate to get the machine if you are an IPA lover.
After seeing the Picobrew at NHC and talking to their reps and Annie I've decided to bite the bullet and pick one up. I plan on using it to iterate through recipes so that when I brew on my 10 gallon RIMS system I'm not wasting my time with beers I'm not going to enjoy or want to submit to competitions.
bobbytuck
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How do you do the hop stand?
Leaf? Pellets in a bag? Leaf in a bag?
I've been wanting to try this but I'm afraid of clogging the pumps after a stand. My thinking is to use a dip tube screen and then leaf hops in a mesh bag for the 30 min stand. Is this similar to your method?
Hop stand/whirlpool there are a few ways to do it, and Annie has been very helpful on the Picobrew forum with configuring the advanced editor. PicoBrew recommends Pellet hops as not much leaf fits in their hop cages and water may not flow as well through the cages with leaf. but if you use a bag in the keg, leaf would work. just remember to add some stainless weight to the bag to keep it from floating.
1. Suspending a bag of hops in the keg for your stand - under advanced editor you can set the Chill to 180 or so, pause (disconnect chiller add hop bag), then have it circulate holding 180 or just pause for the given length of time you want. add another pause so you can remove hop bag and reconnect chiller. then chill down to pitching temp or disconnect and do a no-chill.
or
2. Whirlpool in hop cage- under advanced editor after the pause change the Chill to the desired temp, then next step after temp is reached have it go thru adjunct chamber 4 for desired time. then have it return to the normal chill cycle. with this method you would change out the hop cages at the pause with the hops for your whirlpool. Note that it will pass thru the other cages in the step filter so either change them out or remove them if not desired.
1. Suspending a bag of hops in the keg for your stand - under advanced editor you can set the Chill to 180 or so, pause (disconnect chiller add hop bag), then have it circulate holding 180 or just pause for the given length of time you want. add another pause so you can remove hop bag and reconnect chiller. then chill down to pitching temp or disconnect and do a no-chill.
or
2. Whirlpool in hop cage- under advanced editor after the pause change the Chill to the desired temp, then next step after temp is reached have it go thru adjunct chamber 4 for desired time. then have it return to the normal chill cycle. with this method you would change out the hop cages at the pause with the hops for your whirlpool. Note that it will pass thru the other cages in the step filter so either change them out or remove them if not desired.
My hop stand process is simple. I chill to 180. I do this in a couple of different ways and would be happy to go into more detail with anyone who is interested.
I then shut off the Picobrew and drop in my hop stand hops in a hop sack. I'll stir it a bit at the beginning to be sure it's good and wort-logged and then let it sit for 30 minutes or so, stirring a couple more times.
After 30 min, I pull the hop sack out and then I chill to pitch temps. That's it.
bobbytuck
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Are the hops leaf or pellet?
If leaf -- do you weigh them down in the bag?
Any issues with pump clogging? If pellet -- do the hops in the bag turn to sludge and fall out of the bag? Or do they stay in the bag?
Sometimes the best solution is the simplest!
I use pellets. I've never used leaf doing this.
No issues with the pump because I don't use the Zymatic after I do the hop stand. I cool the wort post-hop stand by hooking up my immersion chiller to the out post of the keg, putting it in ice water, and then pushing the wort out with co2 into a carboy. I'd be happy to go into this process in more detail with anyone who's interested, but I don't circulate the wort through the machine to cool because I find it more trouble than it's worth. I find I can cool just as quickly without circulating.
Here's a view of my cooling process:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434768446.298119.jpg
IC is in the bucket.
Btaz
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Any problem with hot wort in a keg? I've always thought of them as cold tanks and never really have considered using it as a hot wort tank
The entire Picobrew system is based around hot wort in a keg, so no, no problem. It uses it as the HLT and as the boil kettle.
Baja_Brewer
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They're stainless, so there shouldn't be. How guess it might wear on the top and bottom adhesive a bit more by heat cycling it, but not a really big deal.
bobbytuck
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Sure -- just siphon the beer out of the brew keg like any other fermenter. No need for CO2 -- just insert autosiphon and bottle.
Baja_Brewer
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Yup. Just going to need to get a keg with your order (not sure if they even offer it w/o one anymore) so you have something to brew in. I suppose you could brew into a pot with the keg wants, but I'm not sure I would want to do that.
Is the attraction of this system that it's completely automated and you don't have to do anything until its done (a few hours later)?
A small scale system is a nice way to make testing batches.
It looks nice, but I'd really want to be able to make 5 gallons, not just 2.5.
Any chance they'd enlarge it at some point?
A small scale system is a nice way to make testing batches.
It looks nice, but I'd really want to be able to make 5 gallons, not just 2.5.
Any chance they'd enlarge it at some point?
bobbytuck
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The attraction of the system (for me, at least) is (a) repeatability and (b) ease of use and (c) easy to sanitize.
The repeatability is key. You can tweak a batch in the editor, make it once, and then make the exact same batch 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks later. You hit your mash temps exactly -- no guessing, no overshooting, and no variability.
I used a backyard HERMS system several years ago, and I realized I could rarely make the same beer twice with the same ingredients. My HERMS was tuned in, too -- it had a 2-3 degree differential from the HLT to the mash temp -- so I could always dial in mash temps right on the button. But because there were a lot of parts to the system -- 2 pumps, HERMS coil, 15 gallons of brewing liquor, etc. etc. -- I found that I could make pretty good beer, but I wasn't able to repeat anything with absolutely certainty. I suspect this was because of the number of valves and pumps, too -- lots and lots of cleaning was involved -- and unless I spent (almost) as much time cleaning as I was brewing, I always had the risk of something compromising a batch.
I like the 2.5 gallon batches. Sure, it's not five gallons -- but I find myself experimenting a lot more here -- tweaking versions of a recipe to get it just how I like it. Sanitation is easy -- just PBW through the system and then several rinses -- and I love the fact that the recipe editor is pretty much spot-on in terms of OG calculations.
You can always brew back to back and then combine batches to make 5 gallons. Clean up is pretty quick -- just disconnect, empty out the grain bin, rinse the components, and then run several rinses or a deep clean. Takes me all of 10 minutes to dump out the grain, spent hops, and rinse everything off. For me -- this fantastic. I used to spend 2 hours give or take to clean my HERMS -- scrubbing, running OXY, disassembling valves, etc. I hated it so much I gave up the HERMS and for two years didn't brew a thing.
I got a Pico and now I actually like the process.
The attraction of the system (for me, at least) is (a) repeatability and (b) ease of use and (c) easy to sanitize.
The repeatability is key. You can tweak a batch in the editor, make it once, and then make the exact same batch 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks later. You hit your mash temps exactly -- no guessing, no overshooting, and no variability.
I used a backyard HERMS system several years ago, and I realized I could rarely make the same beer twice with the same ingredients. My HERMS was tuned in, too -- it had a 2-3 degree differential from the HLT to the mash temp -- so I could always dial in mash temps right on the button. But because there were a lot of parts to the system -- 2 pumps, HERMS coil, 15 gallons of brewing liquor, etc. etc. -- I found that I could make pretty good beer, but I wasn't able to repeat anything with absolutely certainty. I suspect this was because of the number of valves and pumps, too -- lots and lots of cleaning was involved -- and unless I spent (almost) as much time cleaning as I was brewing, I always had the risk of something compromising a batch.
I like the 2.5 gallon batches. Sure, it's not five gallons -- but I find myself experimenting a lot more here -- tweaking versions of a recipe to get it just how I like it. Sanitation is easy -- just PBW through the system and then several rinses -- and I love the fact that the recipe editor is pretty much spot-on in terms of OG calculations.
You can always brew back to back and then combine batches to make 5 gallons. Clean up is pretty quick -- just disconnect, empty out the grain bin, rinse the components, and then run several rinses or a deep clean. Takes me all of 10 minutes to dump out the grain, spent hops, and rinse everything off. For me -- this fantastic. I used to spend 2 hours give or take to clean my HERMS -- scrubbing, running OXY, disassembling valves, etc. I hated it so much I gave up the HERMS and for two years didn't brew a thing.
I got a Pico and now I actually like the process.
I back up all that is said here. My favorite thing about the PB is the major upgrade in ease of cleaning. I hate the amount of time it takes to clean my traditional set-up; the fact that I will finish brewing at 3pm but won't finish cleaning until 5pm. I hate that. Pico brew clean up will take me 30 minutes or so and it's not back-breaking clean up. A major improvement.
In terms of the 5 gallon vs 2.5 gallon, yes, sometimes I wish that I could knock out a 5G batch, but usually, 2.5 is fine. I brew more often because of how much easier the process is, and it also allows me to experiment more; if a batch doesn't turn out the way I envisioned, no big deal.
Baja_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Amen.
I'd rather push to get 3 "brew days" in monthly (ok, I could really brew 3x in a weekend back to back if I had to) and have some variety than have 4.5 gallons on hand of something I don't like (that is, it took me 0.5 gallons or 4 pints to figure out that I don't like it...)
I don't currently have a good way of serving since my kegerator is function as my ferm chamber and I'm being a bit too lazy to bottle, but I have 4 different beers "on tap" and its awesome.
I like what I'm hearing about the PB, but I do Brew in a Bag, and the only clean up for me is my brew pot.
The bag and grains are already taken acre of during the boil.
The appeal to me of the PB is the plug and play, just set it up and let it do it's thing.
A guy at the club is interested in getting one, so I'll egg him on.
Tell him that everyone here loves it
The bag and grains are already taken acre of during the boil.
The appeal to me of the PB is the plug and play, just set it up and let it do it's thing.
A guy at the club is interested in getting one, so I'll egg him on.
Tell him that everyone here loves it
severum
Member
Love the experience of mine so far. Only two brews in over this weekend.
Severum
Severum
I just watched some videos of the Braukaiser and Grainfather and they seem like more maintenance and more hassle. I'd stick to my BIAB set up over them.
Once you set it up, The PicoBrew appears to be a "press this button, and come back in several hours when the beer is done". That appeals to me for experimental batches.
Question - can it get a stuck sparge if you crush too tight? How is it's efficiency?
Once you set it up, The PicoBrew appears to be a "press this button, and come back in several hours when the beer is done". That appeals to me for experimental batches.
Question - can it get a stuck sparge if you crush too tight? How is it's efficiency?
Efficiency is low - somewhere between 50-60% because it is a no-sparge system. But no stuck sparges, obviously. I've never tried to mill as finely as I do for BIAB (flour, basically) because the recipes are formulated based on a much more course crush.
bobbytuck
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That's pretty much it -- there's not much to do during the process -- but I do like to drop in to monitor the mash or boil or take a few pH samples. I've only had to stop the Pico a few times when I've noticed that the mash water was tunneling the mash bed and not soaking everything -- but after 32 batches, this was only twice. And it was easy to fix: just drain the water, pull out the filter, stir the mash, put in the filter, and start back up. Pretty painless.
I hesitate to leave completely -- and brew unattended -- because if something does happen, I don't want a mess. But nothing has ever happened -- so it's probably habit rather than necessity.
The whole process -- from start to finish -- usually takes about 4 hours plus another 20 mins for cleaning and rinsing. If I start at 10am on a Saturday, I'm finished -- completely finished -- buy 2:30p at the latest. That's including a modified no-chill, too (I chill the keg to 95F with 2 or 3 tap water changes in 5 gallon bucket -- then let the kegged wort sit overnight to cool to ambient 65F or so). If you use a plate chiller, you can probably decrease that time a bit. I used to buy 22# bags of ice with the Pico and chill to 65F pitching temp, and that only took about 30mins or so. Now, I pitch the next morning -- no off-flavor issues and a heckuva lot less hassle than buying ice.
I've been whirlpooling my hops, so that adds a bit of time -- but the actual "hands-on" time is about 15 minutes to get it set up and ready to go -- grain ground, hops ready, brew keg filled with water -- and then about 20 mins at the end -- hops discarded, grain discarded, filters rinsed, keg fermentation lock on, etc.
Pretty painless when I think back to how much time it took to set up my backyard system -- and then the (enormous) time it took to clean the system when I was finished. I usually started a brew at 8am in the summer was lucky to be done by 3:30p or 4p. More, if I disassembled ball valves, did a deep clean, or adjusted pumps and plumbing.
I mean, the Pico does have disadvantages: small batches and low efficiency. If 50-60% weirds you out -- and you feel like you're leaving behind a lot of potential -- which you are -- then, yeah, that's an issue. I was getting 85% with my HERMS doing fly-sparging, so it took me a while to wrap my head around the no-sparging -- and super low efficiency. I dunno. For me, my weekend time saved with the Pico makes up for the low efficiency. But that's a personal calculation.
The other downside is fixing stuff. There's nothing in my old HERMS that I couldn't fix with a trip to Ace Hardware or a replacement pump (I always had one pump in reserve with two pumps in production). The Pico is a black box -- more or less -- so if something happens, it's not immediately intuitive whether it's something that you can fix or that you need to contact tech support. My step filter started to show cracking, but they replaced it within 3 days, no questions asked. However, that doesn't help during brew day. So there are parts -- or there apparently are parts -- that you can't just drive and buy. It's specialized stuff -- from the grain filter to the sample port to the inline filter. It's not Home Depot stuff.
I wish they'd sell a repair kit -- replacement parts with some schematics about how repair. But because you're dealing with 9# of grain total -- max -- the *potential* $$$ loss for a screwup batch is pretty low. Much lower than if you're brewing a 10 gallon batch, for example, and your March pump gives out and you have no spare -- and it's a holiday weekend -- etc. etc.
YMMV.
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