Picobrew Z

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My other hope is that a single Z will brew 1gal or 1.5gal batch sizes that are as consistently brewed as a 2.5gal batch. Once I refine a recipe and I want a full batch, I can then do a 2Z 5gal batch. I do not generally need 2.5gal of beer in order to determine what I want to try next.

This is what I think I was buying and hope that I get. What is in Annie's picture is what I want.

I don’t think the functionality you want (as far as multiple different 2.5 gallon batches is concerned!) is in question - I think the only question is whether a Z2 has one set of physical controls or two. Personally I’m in the “who cares, two sets of controls is fine” camp - but I think originally they were specifying one set of controls.

As far as 1-1.5 gallon batch functionality is concerned, this is what I was hoping for with the announcement that the Z could also brew PicoPaks. If it (ultimately) comes with a 1 gallon-sized step filter, that would be great for smaller batches & to test recipes. Only issue is (and Pico C owners could confirm here) I don’t think the small step filters have split hop chambers as I think the hops are split in the paper insert. Single hop beers, anyone?
 
But... isn’t that basically what they were selling? I always thought the Z2 was just a Full Z1 + 220v power distribution + 1-3 “control-less” brewing units.

It always sounded like the Z2 was going to be two Z1 batches, brewed concurrently but separately, pumped into a single fermentation vessel post-brewing.

I never thought they were going to be same vessel. I understood that you could brew two different recipes, one in each, at the same time or both together.
 
I never thought they were going to be same vessel. I understood that you could brew two different recipes, one in each, at the same time or both together.

Well I think the idea is (and has always been from the pictures on the website) that each Z in the stack uses its own 5 gallon keg weather your brewing 1 or 4 different recipes a a time. You as the brewer could then combine the batches into one fermenter or not. I think doing it this way is the simplest plumbing wise, flexibility wise, and from a parts commonalty standpoint. Also 5 gallon kegs are too common to use anything different unless they came up with some other type of vessel for the wort, then it kinda loses the point of the Z's compact size. I mean most brewers have multiple kegs already laying around.

Also from an electrical standpoint, in my mind, it seems pretty easy to upgrade from a Z1 to more. You really just need more amps for the heating elements and maybe the pumps, so those can be run off of separate legs of the 220, or not if everything inside the Z like most electronics now made is 220v friendly. So to do that they just need a new cord and/or some kind of power management to supply the other Z's.
 
I don't know. If cramming two Z1's together was always the plan, I would have never bought into the Z2. That's a poor choice for an upgrade, IMO and is a pretty big stretch for the term "modular". I was always after this unit:

upload_2019-2-9_9-17-36.png


1 brain, 2 grain modules....
 
I don't know. If cramming two Z1's together was always the plan, I would have never bought into the Z2. That's a poor choice for an upgrade, IMO and is a pretty big stretch for the term "modular". I was always after this unit:

View attachment 611671

1 brain, 2 grain modules....

Not sure what the advantage of that configuration is other than one display and one knob when you are brewing a split batch. Any other time I would rather have each Z directly controllable with their own knob and independently displaying their status on their own display.

Each Z head unit has to have their own everything else just because they each need to control their own temps and flow of liquid which means pumps, rims tube, sensors and switches all live in each Z's head unit and there can be no sharing. On the Z2-4 the extra head unit would have to have the power management. We have seen plenty of pictures of the Z1 head unit in the weekly updates and it is a nice tidy box with the display, pumps, rims and electronics and plumbing.

I do not think they would try to save $50 on having a second raspberry (or equivalent), display and knob just so they could complicate the control software and management of the I/O pins that have to read the sensors and control the pumps and heaters in all 4 Zs
simultaneously. The mechanicals would likewise have to be done redundantly because the control panel would be embedded in the power control header for Z2-4 and would be packaged in the Z header with the pumps etc only for Z1.
 
More brain modules just means more upkeep. Firmware, communications, etc. If you want two Z1's...buy two Z1's. I see no advantage to stacking Z1's and calling it a Z2...you have really just have two Z1's...call it what it is.

Having a single brain module that handles all of the communications between modules gives greater flexibility in the software management. One point of entry for all the sensors allows future upgrades like MTBF, PM scheduling, Historical Data analysis, Avdvanced process controls, etc... It's a nightmare to have to code in extra functional modules just to talk to two different controllers....one controller makes the most sense to me.
 
Saturday, i held a party at my house while I brewed using my Brewie (11th brew - no issues). During that time I completed the brew, chilled it, drained it into my conical, cleaned the Brewie (short and long) - with automated water inlet and popped the 5 stainless components in the dishwasher.

Five gallons brewed and equipment cleaned while everyone enjoyed each other’s company and the previous brews I had made.

I don’t recall being able to do that with my Zymatic.
 
These would be great posts for the Brewie forum. Right after all the ones about software updates and wiring failures.

I’ve read those and contributed. My biggest issues with the Brewie has been the most recent update forced me to re-calibrate and re-clean before I could brew (not so bad).

The developer mode in the last release gives you pretty precise control over all components in the system which is pretty cool, but to be fair I’ve not used it much yet.

I’ve also not been plagued (kow) by any wiring issues - and I don’t miss the Error #1s from the Zy because my start water is too cold, etc.

I was able to use my PicoStill and Zy on Saturday also to distill some Citra hops after figuring out the cryptic instructions and getting it to just the right level of vacuum and temperature. That’s the second time, and I think I have the knack of it now.
 
I was able to use my PicoStill and Zy on Saturday also to distill some Citra hops after figuring out the cryptic instructions and getting it to just the right level of vacuum and temperature. That’s the second time, and I think I have the knack of it now.

I’d be interested to hear how those distilled hops were in the beer after you’ve used them.
 
These would be great posts for the Brewie forum. Right after all the ones about software updates and wiring failures.
I think all of the systems have had wiring failures. From Zymatic to grainfather. Even Spike's panels right out of the box. Probably they one area where they all seem to fail now and then.
 
New Z in the house. Unboxing done. Wow, this is not a Zymatic+ or even a 2.0, it is new machine. The only carry over I see is the individual hop cages. Greatly improved screens with rubber seals, simpler plumbing with no moving arm or step filter valve, very slick and compact head unit with a handle on the rear to carry it around I guess. If the insides are as improved as the outside this will be great.

The unit will stack easily enough. One hmmmm is that there are three appendages on the bottom/ back of the step filter that are blocked off. Not sure if the Z2 will utilize these somehow.

What has me thinking is that because the system is a modular three piece unit (head unit, step filter, lower frame that holds the head unit) a double tall step filter would seem easy; boom, 5 gallons. Not sure what the limiting factor is; heating element? Otherwise this would seem like a simple factory mod, I must be missing something.

So far so excellent...
 

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New Z in the house. Unboxing done. Wow, this is not a Zymatic+ or even a 2.0, it is new machine. The only carry over I see is the individual hop cages. Greatly improved screens with rubber seals, simpler plumbing with no moving arm or step filter valve, very slick and compact head unit with a handle on the rear to carry it around I guess. If the insides are as improved as the outside this will be great.

The unit will stack easily enough. One hmmmm is that there are three appendices out the back of the step filter that are blocked off. Not sure if the Z2 will utilize these somehow.

What has me thinking is that because the system is a modular three piece unit (head unit, step filter, lower frame that holds the head unit) a double tall step filter would seem easy; boom, 5 gallons. Not sure what the limiting factor is; heating element? Otherwise this would seem like a simple factory mod, I must be missing something.

So far so excellent...

Out of curiousity, what was your final "shipping week estimate" that they quoted before they shipped?
 
If the Brewie can up their game on reliability and service game over Picobrew then pico is finished. Price point on the Z is fail compared to what brewie+ advertises. I won't touch either w a ten foot pole though. Been burned once w the Zymatic.

New Z in the house. Unboxing done. Wow, this is not a Zymatic+ or even a 2.0, it is new machine. The only carry over I see is the individual hop cages. Greatly improved screens with rubber seals, simpler plumbing with no moving arm or step filter valve, very slick and compact head unit with a handle on the rear to carry it around I guess. If the insides are as improved as the outside this will be great.

The unit will stack easily enough. One hmmmm is that there are three appendages on the bottom/ back of the step filter that are blocked off. Not sure if the Z2 will utilize these somehow.

What has me thinking is that because the system is a modular three piece unit (head unit, step filter, lower frame that holds the head unit) a double tall step filter would seem easy; boom, 5 gallons. Not sure what the limiting factor is; heating element? Otherwise this would seem like a simple factory mod, I must be missing something.

So far so excellent...

Have you had a chance to brew? Getting really tempted to jump ship and switch to the Brewie+. My ship week is currently 3/2
 
New Z in the house. Unboxing done. Wow, this is not a Zymatic+ or even a 2.0, it is new machine. The only carry over I see is the individual hop cages. Greatly improved screens with rubber seals, simpler plumbing with no moving arm or step filter valve, very slick and compact head unit with a handle on the rear to carry it around I guess. If the insides are as improved as the outside this will be great.

The unit will stack easily enough. One hmmmm is that there are three appendages on the bottom/ back of the step filter that are blocked off. Not sure if the Z2 will utilize these somehow.

What has me thinking is that because the system is a modular three piece unit (head unit, step filter, lower frame that holds the head unit) a double tall step filter would seem easy; boom, 5 gallons. Not sure what the limiting factor is; heating element? Otherwise this would seem like a simple factory mod, I must be missing something.

So far so excellent...

Looking good. Keep us posted on the brew-side.
 
PicoBrew's software is amateurish for the following reasons:
1) Cannot manage folders of your recipes
2) Seems to like they override file names and save copies of your recipes by dangling 'v1', 'v2, 'v3', ...
3) Doesn't provide a complete set of malt profiles by malting company - nice if they were in folders to select from
4) You setup 'advanced' options and then go back into the main program, and your 'advanced' options get reset to the default
5) You can't store the AA for your hops, and have to keep overriding their defaults
6) Too few options to place adjunct items
7) You only get one option to select a yeast - ever hear of using multiple yeasts?
8) Water calculations would be nice to be built in
9) Simple calculations like BU:GU ratios, lager times ((OG-1)/4*1000*(7 to 12 days)), ...
10) Name length is too short
11) ... please add on to this list
 
PicoBrew's software is amateurish for the following reasons:
1) Cannot manage folders of your recipes
2) Seems to like they override file names and save copies of your recipes by dangling 'v1', 'v2, 'v3', ...
3) Doesn't provide a complete set of malt profiles by malting company - nice if they were in folders to select from
4) You setup 'advanced' options and then go back into the main program, and your 'advanced' options get reset to the default
5) You can't store the AA for your hops, and have to keep overriding their defaults
6) Too few options to place adjunct items
7) You only get one option to select a yeast - ever hear of using multiple yeasts?
8) Water calculations would be nice to be built in
9) Simple calculations like BU:GU ratios, lager times ((OG-1)/4*1000*(7 to 12 days)), ...
10) Name length is too short
11) ... please add on to this list

I have BeerSmith for things like this. I just want an API I can tap into in order to translate those recipes to brewing instructions for the Z.
 
PicoBrew's software is amateurish for the following reasons:
1) Cannot manage folders of your recipes
2) Seems to like they override file names and save copies of your recipes by dangling 'v1', 'v2, 'v3', ...
3) Doesn't provide a complete set of malt profiles by malting company - nice if they were in folders to select from
4) You setup 'advanced' options and then go back into the main program, and your 'advanced' options get reset to the default
5) You can't store the AA for your hops, and have to keep overriding their defaults
6) Too few options to place adjunct items
7) You only get one option to select a yeast - ever hear of using multiple yeasts?
8) Water calculations would be nice to be built in
9) Simple calculations like BU:GU ratios, lager times ((OG-1)/4*1000*(7 to 12 days)), ...
10) Name length is too short
11) ... please add on to this list
YM obviously Varies. For me most of these are a bunch of nit picky things I either don’t care too much about or I do other places. Could your suggestions make it better? Absolutely. And I expect over time, with improvements, all of these cutting edge appliances will be quite remarkable.

Most important for me is a robust, consistent wort making machine I can program and then leave without having to babysit most of a day. People ask all the time “how long is your brew day”. Mine hands on is actually about 1 hour +\-
 
New Z in the house. Unboxing done. Wow, this is not a Zymatic+ or even a 2.0, it is new machine. The only carry over I see is the individual hop cages. Greatly improved screens with rubber seals, simpler plumbing with no moving arm or step filter valve, very slick and compact head unit with a handle on the rear to carry it around I guess. If the insides are as improved as the outside this will be great.

The unit will stack easily enough. One hmmmm is that there are three appendages on the bottom/ back of the step filter that are blocked off. Not sure if the Z2 will utilize these somehow.

What has me thinking is that because the system is a modular three piece unit (head unit, step filter, lower frame that holds the head unit) a double tall step filter would seem easy; boom, 5 gallons. Not sure what the limiting factor is; heating element? Otherwise this would seem like a simple factory mod, I must be missing something.

So far so excellent...

AnyHowe, I hope it is ok but I copied and reposted your post on the facebook Pico group. Just to let some folks know that units are shipping out. So they can sit back, stay calm and have a home brew...
 
PicoBrew's software is amateurish for the following reasons:
1) Cannot manage folders of your recipes
2) Seems to like they override file names and save copies of your recipes by dangling 'v1', 'v2, 'v3', ...
3) Doesn't provide a complete set of malt profiles by malting company - nice if they were in folders to select from
4) You setup 'advanced' options and then go back into the main program, and your 'advanced' options get reset to the default
5) You can't store the AA for your hops, and have to keep overriding their defaults
6) Too few options to place adjunct items
7) You only get one option to select a yeast - ever hear of using multiple yeasts?
8) Water calculations would be nice to be built in
9) Simple calculations like BU:GU ratios, lager times ((OG-1)/4*1000*(7 to 12 days)), ...
10) Name length is too short
11) ... please add on to this list

It is still in beta but there is another alternative to Pico's software and it connects to their servers to push recipes....

https://www.brewpen.com

Pico is also working on a new interface but who knows when that will be available.
 
Ok, first Zbrew for me. A little long for a post, but I suspect people are hungry for a little info.

Turn it on:

Can I have a HELL YES for the automatic update right off the bat. I really did not like having to do that manually with my Mac.

Very nice and much improved PICOesc OLD screen. Quick and direct connection to WIFI; big improvement here. Walks you through ALL the steps of adding screens, grains etc. Not sure if it will do this every time or if this is a first time only.

Whole new water pick-up and distribution and plumbing system inside the step filter and frame; No more 'arm' or motor to mess up. Quite unique actually. No real place for leakage to occur, in fact it no longer has a moat to pick up leakage. The rubber internals of the lower frame make for a very nice snug step filter fit. No little valve on the end to push it onto or to get fouled. Has some definite PICO sounds. Looks like that little box was a good proving ground for many things Z.

Step filter basically works the same but has new top side water connection that fits snugly when the filter is applied. And a unique water management system within the filter itself. I'll get back to that in a moment.

Start the brew and first off it tells you how long it will take. In my case about 3 hrs 20 minutes if I recall. The screen scrolls though time remaining, temperature, beer brewing, and remaining time of the step, or something like that. informative, nice and easy to read.

Possibly some of these items can be adjusted in Utilities function. Easy scroll on the dial, just have not done it yet.

Mash and Boil:

Damn the recirculation pump really cranks. I could hear it splashing inside the keg. Hmmm, after about 20 minutes I was getting concerned that the grain bed was not submerged in wort. No more worries about overflow! But is the pump too strong? Should I not have put in my typical few handfuls of rice hulls.... Email to Kevin confirmed that I did not insert the plug into the key-hole in the back of the mash compartment. He said not to worry. I didn't and I hit gravity spot on; better than ever actually. What they have done is provide a keyhole that is likely perfect for other application like SV and future Pico Packs with lots of flow. For a typical beer they suggest putting the plug in and it will reduce the flow from the mash unit and keep it submerged. Nice to know it worked without anyway. It was in the instructions, but I could not find the place to put it. Didn't say I was smart, I just like beer.

The online graphics show a VERY tight correlation between wort and heat temps all through mash and boil. Crazy close actually. They did something very special to the heating loop.

RINSE and Wash:

Rinsing seems more elaborate (read better) than the Zymatic. More PICO like with rinsing several pumps and internals several times. No 5 minute drain on the end, thank you! Just pull the step filter out and dump when done. Screens now have rubber along all edges that provide an excellent seal. The top has a lip to hold it down as well. They are also way more robust than the Zymatic. A nice aside is that I can dump it out and not have to worry about the screens falling out too; the little things that make me happy.

Everything in my opinion is a big step up from an already damn fine first run Zymatic. A new name was clearly a good choice as this is far more than a modest upgrade.
 
Ok, first Zbrew for me. A little long for a post, but I suspect people are hungry for a little info.

Turn it on:

Can I have a HELL YES for the automatic update right off the bat. I really did not like having to do that manually with my Mac.

Very nice and much improved PICOesc OLD screen. Quick and direct connection to WIFI; big improvement here. Walks you through ALL the steps of adding screens, grains etc. Not sure if it will do this every time or if this is a first time only.

Whole new water pick-up and distribution and plumbing system inside the step filter and frame; No more 'arm' or motor to mess up. Quite unique actually. No real place for leakage to occur, in fact it no longer has a moat to pick up leakage. The rubber internals of the lower frame make for a very nice snug step filter fit. No little valve on the end to push it onto or to get fouled. Has some definite PICO sounds. Looks like that little box was a good proving ground for many things Z.

Step filter basically works the same but has new top side water connection that fits snugly when the filter is applied. And a unique water management system within the filter itself. I'll get back to that in a moment.

Start the brew and first off it tells you how long it will take. In my case about 3 hrs 20 minutes if I recall. The screen scrolls though time remaining, temperature, beer brewing, and remaining time of the step, or something like that. informative, nice and easy to read.

Possibly some of these items can be adjusted in Utilities function. Easy scroll on the dial, just have not done it yet.

Mash and Boil:

Damn the recirculation pump really cranks. I could hear it splashing inside the keg. Hmmm, after about 20 minutes I was getting concerned that the grain bed was not submerged in wort. No more worries about overflow! But is the pump too strong? Should I not have put in my typical few handfuls of rice hulls.... Email to Kevin confirmed that I did not insert the plug into the key-hole in the back of the mash compartment. He said not to worry. I didn't and I hit gravity spot on; better than ever actually. What they have done is provide a keyhole that is likely perfect for other application like SV and future Pico Packs with lots of flow. For a typical beer they suggest putting the plug in and it will reduce the flow from the mash unit and keep it submerged. Nice to know it worked without anyway. It was in the instructions, but I could not find the place to put it. Didn't say I was smart, I just like beer.

The online graphics show a VERY tight correlation between wort and heat temps all through mash and boil. Crazy close actually. They did something very special to the heating loop.

RINSE and Wash:

Rinsing seems more elaborate (read better) than the Zymatic. More PICO like with rinsing several pumps and internals several times. No 5 minute drain on the end, thank you! Just pull the step filter out and dump when done. Screens now have rubber along all edges that provide an excellent seal. The top has a lip to hold it down as well. They are also way more robust than the Zymatic. A nice aside is that I can dump it out and not have to worry about the screens falling out too; the little things that make me happy.

Everything in my opinion is a big step up from an already damn fine first run Zymatic. A new name was clearly a good choice as this is far more than a modest upgrade.

Excellent information! Good to hear it is a huge improvement!
 
Ok, first Zbrew for me. A little long for a post, but I suspect people are hungry for a little info.

Turn it on:

Can I have a HELL YES for the automatic update right off the bat. I really did not like having to do that manually with my Mac.

Very nice and much improved PICOesc OLD screen. Quick and direct connection to WIFI; big improvement here. Walks you through ALL the steps of adding screens, grains etc. Not sure if it will do this every time or if this is a first time only.

Whole new water pick-up and distribution and plumbing system inside the step filter and frame; No more 'arm' or motor to mess up. Quite unique actually. No real place for leakage to occur, in fact it no longer has a moat to pick up leakage. The rubber internals of the lower frame make for a very nice snug step filter fit. No little valve on the end to push it onto or to get fouled. Has some definite PICO sounds. Looks like that little box was a good proving ground for many things Z.

Step filter basically works the same but has new top side water connection that fits snugly when the filter is applied. And a unique water management system within the filter itself. I'll get back to that in a moment.

Start the brew and first off it tells you how long it will take. In my case about 3 hrs 20 minutes if I recall. The screen scrolls though time remaining, temperature, beer brewing, and remaining time of the step, or something like that. informative, nice and easy to read.

Possibly some of these items can be adjusted in Utilities function. Easy scroll on the dial, just have not done it yet.

Mash and Boil:

Damn the recirculation pump really cranks. I could hear it splashing inside the keg. Hmmm, after about 20 minutes I was getting concerned that the grain bed was not submerged in wort. No more worries about overflow! But is the pump too strong? Should I not have put in my typical few handfuls of rice hulls.... Email to Kevin confirmed that I did not insert the plug into the key-hole in the back of the mash compartment. He said not to worry. I didn't and I hit gravity spot on; better than ever actually. What they have done is provide a keyhole that is likely perfect for other application like SV and future Pico Packs with lots of flow. For a typical beer they suggest putting the plug in and it will reduce the flow from the mash unit and keep it submerged. Nice to know it worked without anyway. It was in the instructions, but I could not find the place to put it. Didn't say I was smart, I just like beer.

The online graphics show a VERY tight correlation between wort and heat temps all through mash and boil. Crazy close actually. They did something very special to the heating loop.

RINSE and Wash:

Rinsing seems more elaborate (read better) than the Zymatic. More PICO like with rinsing several pumps and internals several times. No 5 minute drain on the end, thank you! Just pull the step filter out and dump when done. Screens now have rubber along all edges that provide an excellent seal. The top has a lip to hold it down as well. They are also way more robust than the Zymatic. A nice aside is that I can dump it out and not have to worry about the screens falling out too; the little things that make me happy.

Everything in my opinion is a big step up from an already damn fine first run Zymatic. A new name was clearly a good choice as this is far more than a modest upgrade.

:bravo:
Very nice, I am getting more amp'd up by the day seeing all the posts from people that have gotten theirs. My Z2 is scheduled for 3/9. I hope they hit that mark. I have not seen anyone else post about a Z2 yet so there are still some unknown surprises to come. :ban:

I hope you dont mind if I copy to the facebook page...
 
Can you brew pico paks in it yet ? I’m supposed to get mine in March . I have a pico pro I will probably end up selling
 
Also if you can on your next brew , film it so us watching on the side lines can want our more . And you can upgrade to a 2? Or no just a z1 .
 
@jaycap32 One can alway$ update. I am not sure how that will work, given the 240 requirement. But what do I know. It has to be cheaper than just buying a second and just plopping it on top and I expect some other advantages as well that we are not yet aware of. I have heard no talk about the Z2. Oddly quiet actually.

(I am NOT suggesting this is a good idea, but) Given the modularity of the unit I fully expect someone will build a double high step filter for 5 gallons. Heat time would be longer and likely stress the system and of course the filter would be a bit heavy but....
 
From what I have gathered upgrading a Z1 to a 2,3,4 is extensive. They are looking at swapping units out or having to send the Z1 in so Pico can change the insides out to make it a 2,3,4.

I am about 2 weeks out from my ship date for my Z2. I hope they stay with it and make that date. I will definitely keep everyone up on how it goes. I need to start clearing out the garage where I am going to rack it, and get my rack setup to mount it as well. I am starting to get excited. :yes::yes::yes:
 
I'd imagine any upgrade would.just be send us the head unit and we will send you two in replacement with the new power distribution etc. The step filter and base are the same off the line (again assuming).
 
From what I have gathered upgrading a Z1 to a 2,3,4 is extensive. They are looking at swapping units out or having to send the Z1 in so Pico can change the insides out to make it a 2,3,4.

I am about 2 weeks out from my ship date for my Z2. I hope they stay with it and make that date. I will definitely keep everyone up on how it goes. I need to start clearing out the garage where I am going to rack it, and get my rack setup to mount it as well. I am starting to get excited. :yes::yes::yes:

When you clear out your garage, send me your stainless pico grain basket :)
 
With the people that have received your unit, did you get a refund for the extra shipping costs that you paid?
Also any results on efficiency?
 

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