Ph level

[pmoneyismyfriend]

Brewing an ocktober. 5lbs pils, 4lbs Munich, 3lbs Vienna, 1lb caramunich. My tap water has a pH of 7.4. using bru'n water it tells my to add 5ml of lactic acid to my 5 gallons of strike water to achieve a mash pH of 5.4. using pH test strips a very pale color shows indicating a very low mash pH. The scale goes as low as 4.6 and I'm guessing 4 or below is what I have. I guess I really don't know what I'm at or how to achieve a proper pH level

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Would you be able to provide us with the analyticals for your mash water? And also with information as to any mineralization you may have added to the 5 gallons of strike water. And lastly, what are the nominal Lovibond colors of the various malts in your grist bill?

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[pmoneyismyfriend]

1.6, 6, 4, and 46 respectively.

No mineral additions

Na 6
K 1
Ca 91
Mg 41
Caco3 398
No3-N 6.2
So4-S 11
Cl 22
Co3 <1.0
Hco3 379
Caco3 312

pH 7.4
TDS 454
Mmho\cm .76
Me\l 8.2\8.0

 

[carvetop]

You have very high alkalinity and would be best advised to either cut with reverse osmosis water or go 100% ro.

 

[pmoneyismyfriend]

Forgot to mention 50% dilution with distilled water

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Ca 91
Mg 41

Cl 22
So4-S 11

Hco3 379
Caco3 312
Caco3 398

TDS 454
pH 7.4

Wow - that's hard, about all that's good for is writing on blackboards! Well, porter maybe. Not sure why there's two CaCO3 figures other than I assume one is an equivalent hardness figure?

So your problem should be a struggle to get down to mash pH, not way under. Either your pH strips have died (bleached in the sun?) or you've screwed up somehow (using the wrong end of the pH strip, doughed in your StarSan bucket rather than water?). So first thing to do is make sure your pH strips are working properly - if you stick one in tapwater, at pH 7.4 it should colour up nicely?

 

[pmoneyismyfriend]

Yes, it does, I checked that first as that was my suspicion. I just got them but not sure I trust them. For years, I never bothered checking my pH and only started water chemistry in the past few months. That said, my beers are good. Perhaps this chemistry stuff just gives me more to worry about.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Nah, it's worth working at, especially with water that hard. So if the pH strips look OK on the tapwater, it's maybe worth testing the distilled water to a) check it's OK and b) in equilibrium with the CO2 in the atomosphere it should be 5.8, so it should be in the zone of the pH paper. If that look OK, then you have to assume the pH papers are right and so it must be something in your mash that's giving you such a weirdly low pH (or perhaps there's something in the mash that's bleaching the pH paper). I can only think that either you've got a ton of lactobacillus in there, Starsan ended up in there, or maybe one of your malts got swapped with acidulated by accident. Beyond that, I'm struggling!

 

[pmoneyismyfriend]

I did check the distilled also and it registered but not 5.8. this is not the only beer I've done where the pH is low. I thought maybe the lactic acid was to heavy but I added 9ml to my sparge (straight tap 5 gallons) and I had a good pH reading, so I'm thinking it's not the acid calculations. Maybe next time I cut the acid in half to start and see where I'm at for kicks

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your 5 mL lactic acid addition was not too high. I'm forecasting that you mashed somewhere in the range of 5.48 pH, which is perfectly fine. You did not mash in the pH 4's.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[RaHarmakis]

Oh pH Strips... great for causing stress lol. I'd suggest ditching the strips, and get a cheap pH probe off Amazon (I like Hanna probes). Much simpler to use and there is less human error in identifying colors.

Did you cool the samples before testing? Temperature has big impacts on the pH of the samples.

pH can be a challenge. Calculations will get you "close" but from experience it does change every time you brew.

At the brewery I work at, some days I need 2L of Lactic to dial in the pH, some days its closer to 3L. So I usually start at 1.5 and add it in smaller doses until I get to where it needs to be.

As an aside.. Lactic Acid is one of my favourite smells in the brewery!

 

[pmoneyismyfriend]

That's what my calculations said also but my test strips say otherwise.
I missed my preboil gravity by .008. it's a common theme and I always end up adding dme to make up the difference. I've been blaming that on my pH level

 

[pmoneyismyfriend]

No, I didn't cool my samples. I never thought to do so. I do an adjustment for temp with hydrometer readings but have not heard of this for pH until now.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

No, I didn't cool my samples. I never thought to do so. I do an adjustment for temp with hydrometer readings but have not heard of this for pH until now.

With a meter, pH readings taken at mash temperatures are going to read 0.25 to o.30 pH points lower than actual.

pH strips are notoriously terrible. It has been said that the only brand that is any good is ColorpHast, and they read about 0.30 pH points low consistently, but that is for room temperature samples. Who knows how far off they are at mash temps. The other brands are mainly junk.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[ajdelange]

With a meter, pH readings taken at mash temperatures are going to read 0.25 to o.30 pH points lower than actual.

A pH meter equipped with ATC (it would be hard to find one without ATC these days) reads, at mash temperature, the actual pH at mash temperature. That is going to be lower than the pH measured at room temperature which is the actual pH at room temperature. Actual pH is a function of temperature.

 

[Shwagger]

Sometimes you get lucky and hit pH on the nose