Percentage of roasted barley

[marchio-93]

Hi! Sorry for my bad English, I write from Italy. For a recipe of a Rauch beer, to give a little touch of toast, what maximum percentage of roasted barley should I use to not give astringency and excessive roasting? 2% it's enough, is it too little? I've never used it. Thank u!

 

[Paulaner]

I think @Schlenkerla will be your best person to answer this question.

 

[ESBrewer]

There are different Rauchbiers and different roasted grains so it depends. But 1-3 % is probably a good starting point. The flavor, especially in traditional South German smoked beers, comes from beech-smoked base grain (20-100% of the grain bill, smoked during kilning process) such as Weyermann's Rauchmalz. Additional roasted grain is often used to adjust the color of the beer and give a little bit of roasted flavor. Most recipes use roasted, malted grain instead of roasted barley which is an unmalted grain type. If you want some color and only smooth, dark flavor with low astringency you could use some de-husked grains such as Carafa II Special -version. For more roasted, dark coffee-like notes the standard Carafa versions or even roasted barley. Even 1% will be evident in the color but 2-3% will give you a more roasted flavor. But keep in mind that the roasted astringency or harshness should not dominate in the traditional Rauchbier.

Some examples of grain bills:
https://braumagazin.de/article/rauchbier/ - several recipes in German but u could try Google translation when necessary (Röstmalz = roasted malt, Rauchmalz = the smoked base malt, Buchenrauch = beech-smoked, Eichenrauch = oak smoked)
https://www.speidels-braumeister.de/de/braurezepte/rauchbier.html - an example with no roasted grain at all

 

[Schlenkerla]

I think @Schlenkerla will be your best person to answer this question.

Thanks for the tag! I always like talking about Rauchbier.

Hi! Sorry for my bad English, I write from Italy. For a recipe of a Rauch beer, to give a little touch of toast, what maximum percentage of roasted barley should I use to not give astringency and excessive roasting? 2% it's enough, is it too little? I've never used it. Thank u!

Straight to your question. No more than 10% dark roasted malts. Carafa II (Chocolate) or Carafa III (BLACK).

The Schlenkerla is this; hopped to 30
IBU

49.5% Munich
49.5% Rauchmalt
1% Carafa II or III

The Kaiser's Lovely Dom; hopped to 30 IBU

70% Pilsner
20% Rauchmalt
10% Carafa II or III

For comparison a Smoked Mild is this; hopped to 25 IBU.

(This recipe thrown together for the Weyermanns. Thomas and Sabine. Brennerstraße Mild, a Bamberg adaption of the style.)


62% Light Munich
26% Rauchmalt
8% CaraMunich III (Crystal 60L)
4% Carafa III

I've played with this from 1% to 8%. I always use Carafa III (BLACK). I had pretty smokey beer and didn't think it was way too roasty at 8%. To play it safe, I would try 1%.

If you didn't know the Schlenkerla is made from 100% Rauchmalt. They don't add any roasted malts. They get roasted in malting/kilning process. Obviously, the smoke does the job. The kiln doesn't have a uniform heat source. I'm told the very old fire box is the size of a footlocker. Therefore some of the grain gets really dark, and then some get very little color change. That's what I was told from the owner.


https://www.brew.is/files/malt.html

This is my Rauchbier Thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/637254/

 

[marchio-93]

Thank you so much for your comprehensive answers! I didn't understand something about roasting: does carafa (II or III) taste like roasted or not? Is it just for color? Because in any case I liked giving it a slight hint of toast, so if you think that Rauch malt, carafa, and maybe Monaco add enough "roasted" taste i won't put like 1-2% of roasted barley

 

[Schlenkerla]

Thank you so much for your comprehensive answers! I didn't understand something about roasting: does carafa (II or III) taste like roasted or not? Is it just for color? Because in any case I liked giving it a slight hint of toast, so if you think that Rauch malt, carafa, and maybe Monaco add enough "roasted" taste i won't put like 1-2% of roasted barley

You're welcome. The Carafa II and III are definitely roasted in taste. III is almost a bitter burnt taste. It's about as roasted one can get without being burned or charred. If you tasted whole roasted coffee beans. There's a similarity. You use these to add mostly flavor with that come the color. In some beers you can use small amounts of roasted malts for just color. A red ale is a good example a very very small amount will make a beer red bordering on brown.

Historically nearly all cold climate beers were smoked and had a component of a dark smokey roasted taste about them. The advent of coal used in furnaces changed that and the invention of the black patent roasting machine. This forever changed beer from being dark and smokey. Brewers could make dark ales like the brown ales and porters with mostly lightly kilned malts and a small handful of roasted malt. This advancement in technology also changed mash efficiency as large percentages of a the grain bills could now be made of lightly kilned base malts. They only need a small portion of black or chocolate malt to achieve that roasted character one finds in a stout or porter and the hint of bitter chocolate in brown ale. It's the same with bocks, dunkels and schwarzbier.

Circling back to climate. Warmer climates had the capability to kiln malt using sunlight. Countries in warmer climates tended to make lighter color beers without the roasted/toasted character. They didn't need to build a fire to kiln the malt. They just left it out in the sun and it dried out the barley kernels.

Here's the two roasted grain types with their sales descriptions. It's better than I could explain from a taste standpoint. Another thought it just taste the raw malt if you can at your grain source. Pop a few kernels in you mouth you'll learn what taste it will put in your beer.

Chocolate Malt. - Carafa II

"Finest malts from the British Isles. This chocolate malt from the UK is made from malted barley that is highly roasted, though not as high as black malt, to achieve a rich dark color with roasty hints of black coffee and bittersweet chocolate. This malt adds color and flavor to a wide variety of dark beer styles and is a classic malt for stout, porter, or brown ale. At small percentages it gives a brown color and mild roasted flavor while larger amounts deliver strong bittersweet chocolate and near black color. 375-450°L"

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/simpsons-chocolate-malt

Black Malt - Carafa III

"Finest malts from the British Isles. Black Malts are made by roasting malted barley at a higher temperature than that used to produce Chocolate Malts. This also makes it different from roasted barley which uses unmalted barley. This creates a sharp, somewhat tart roasted flavor and deep black color, with a smoother, less dry flavor than roasted barley. Small percentages add reddish color to Scottish ales, red ales, and bitter. Higher percentages give pronounced roasted flavor and aroma and black color with a tan to brown head. Ideal for just about anything black and roasty such as sweet stout or robust porter. 500-600°L"

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/simpsons-black-malt

Northerner Brewer - Roasted Malts

https://www.northernbrewer.com/collections/roasted-malts

 

[marchio-93]

You're welcome. The Carafa II and III are definitely roasted in taste. III is almost a bitter burnt taste. It's about as roasted one can get without being burned or charred. If you tasted whole roasted coffee beans. There's a similarity. You use these to add mostly flavor with that come the color. In some beers you can use small amounts of roasted malts for just color. A red ale is a good example a very very small amount will make a beer red bordering on brown.

Historically nearly all cold climate beers were smoked and had a component of a dark smokey roasted taste about them. The advent of coal used in furnaces changed that and the invention of the black patent roasting machine. This forever changed beer from being dark and smokey. Brewers could make dark ales like the brown ales and porters with mostly lightly kilned malts and a small handful of roasted malt. This advancement in technology also changed mash efficiency as large percentages of a the grain bills could now be made of lightly kilned base malts. They only need a small portion of black or chocolate malt to achieve that roasted character one finds in a stout or porter and the hint of bitter chocolate in brown ale. It's the same with bocks, dunkels and schwarzbier.

Circling back to climate. Warmer climates had the capability to kiln malt using sunlight. Countries in warmer climates tended to make lighter color beers without the roasted/toasted character. They didn't need to build a fire to kiln the malt. They just left it out in the sun and it dried out the barley kernels.

Here's the two roasted grain types with their sales descriptions. It's better than I could explain from a taste standpoint. Another thought it just taste the raw malt if you can at your grain source. Pop a few kernels in you mouth you'll learn what taste it will put in your beer.

Chocolate Malt. - Carafa II

"Finest malts from the British Isles. This chocolate malt from the UK is made from malted barley that is highly roasted, though not as high as black malt, to achieve a rich dark color with roasty hints of black coffee and bittersweet chocolate. This malt adds color and flavor to a wide variety of dark beer styles and is a classic malt for stout, porter, or brown ale. At small percentages it gives a brown color and mild roasted flavor while larger amounts deliver strong bittersweet chocolate and near black color. 375-450°L"

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/simpsons-chocolate-malt

Black Malt - Carafa III

"Finest malts from the British Isles. Black Malts are made by roasting malted barley at a higher temperature than that used to produce Chocolate Malts. This also makes it different from roasted barley which uses unmalted barley. This creates a sharp, somewhat tart roasted flavor and deep black color, with a smoother, less dry flavor than roasted barley. Small percentages add reddish color to Scottish ales, red ales, and bitter. Higher percentages give pronounced roasted flavor and aroma and black color with a tan to brown head. Ideal for just about anything black and roasty such as sweet stout or robust porter. 500-600°L"

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/simpsons-black-malt

Northerner Brewer - Roasted Malts

https://www.northernbrewer.com/collections/roasted-malts

I could never ask anything better, so thank you!