Panel Repair burned out main.

[jekeane]

I reached out to ebrewsupply but havent heard back yet and figured I would try to source some help here. Panel has run flawlessly for 4.5 years, Friday I smelled some plastic melting as I was coming to a boil and found my panel was about to go poof...


Main supply outlet is fused to the cable. and the black line to the breaker is cooked as well as the receptacle for that line. I have a new plug and outlet but didn't discover the breaker till today when I pulled the panel off the wall.

My suspicion is a lose cable caused the burn out. my cable was resting against my glycol chiller which constantly vibrates. I don't know this to be fact. But its my guess atm.

what else should I look at replacing to not have this happen again? everything in between the breaker and main outlet looks fine. The ssr inline with the melted breaker looks fine as well. Should I pull everything from the SSR on down to the outlet?

 

[day_trippr]

Typically that kind of localized heating is from a poor connection in the immediate vicinity. If that's stranded wire it's not uncommon for compression/strand-reorientation under pressure to eventually reduce the "solidity" of the connection to where the resistance starts rising and the self-heating starts in earnest. And vibration can certainly accelerate that type of transition from tight to not-so-much.

As for the SSRs down-stream, I wouldn't expect they were damaged - I'm betting that's localized to the breaker contact and wire termination...

Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

I agree with @day_trippr .

Brew on

 

[jekeane]

This is what I was hoping. I was a little surprised to see both the breaker and the main outlet burned out, but the din rail and the contactor in between those components was spared. Ill order the breaker and rewire trying to find the right one on amazon so i can get it sooner than later... thanks guys

 

[BrunDog]

I also agree with @day_trippr. Common problem. Terminals should be re-tightened on occasion.

I found in a breaker like these the wires pull out quite easily after a couple of heat cycles. It is a snowball effect. This is probably happening more than we realize - its mostly only found when a failure occurs.

 

[augiedoggy]

I reached out to ebrewsupply but havent heard back yet and figured I would try to source some help here. Panel has run flawlessly for 4.5 years, Friday I smelled some plastic melting as I was coming to a boil and found my panel was about to go poof...


Main supply outlet is fused to the cable. and the black line to the breaker is cooked as well as the receptacle for that line. I have a new plug and outlet but didn't discover the breaker till today when I pulled the panel off the wall.

My suspicion is a lose cable caused the burn out. my cable was resting against my glycol chiller which constantly vibrates. I don't know this to be fact. But its my guess atm.

what else should I look at replacing to not have this happen again? everything in between the breaker and main outlet looks fine. The ssr inline with the melted breaker looks fine as well. Should I pull everything from the SSR on down to the outlet?

I would replace the outlet and effected wire as well as the ssr or whatever that white din relay is that the last pic showed with melted connection. I agree soething came loose. believe it or not these panels are supposed to be checked periodically for loosened connections as its common for them to come loose. I have a friend that used to be an electrician for GM that told me they would check the connections periodically on all their panels. I myself have had this same issue on 2 of my ssr connections so far over the years which I could smell and caught before major damage occured.

 

[itsnotrequired]

this is crazy, i had the exact same thing happen to my ebrewsupply panel just ten days ago! i've had mine in use for about five years, 30A panel. i smelled something a little hot on brew day, poked my head in the panel and didn't see anything obvious, kept on trucking. wasn't until cleanup when the panel simply turned off (breaker at panel did not trip). it was then that i discovered one of the 240v conductors at the main power incoming receptacle had melted. simply shut off, none of the breakers in the brew panel tripped nor did the upstream breaker at the house panel. simply burned through enough to break power (same leg also powered the coil for the main power contactor, that is what killed the power). extra sucks because it melted the twist lock plug enough that i couldn't get it out, had to get a new plug/receptacle. stupid of me, should have looked closer when i smelled something in the first place. i can only chalk it up to a loose connection, definetly took the opportunity to tighten everything else up. some of the connections were loose, glad i checked.

i removed the damaged conductor from the receptacle to the contactor but that is as far as my damage went. nothing downstream is scorched, discolored, mis-shaped, etc. wild that yours carried the heat all the way through the contactor, terminal block and two additional conductors to the breaker, where it melted. the contactor is rated 63 amps and those terminal blocks are rated 57 amps so not too surprising they were not damaged. the conductor between the contactor and terminal block must be short enough that the extra metal at the terminations could 'absorb' the excessive heat from the conductor. it wasn't until it reached the lower rated 32 amp breaker that the heat absorbing capability gave way and it melted.

and i agree with @augiedoggy, replace the conductor between the receptacle-contactor, contactor-terminal block and terminal block-circuit breaker. the conductor might be fine but not worth the risk for such short runs. replace the circuit breaker as well. conductor from circuit breaker to downstream contactor might be fine but if in doubt, replace that as well, especially since the run is so short. i wouldn't sweat the element contactor as it is rated 63 amp. can't tell for sure from the photos but i would feel pretty good about reusing the main contactor and downstream terminal block, especially if there is no visible melting, discoloration, etc. at the terminations.

btw, do you have a 50 amp or 30 amp panel? looks like #10 awg from main receptacle to main contractor, implying a 30 amp panel but you have separate 32 amp breakers for the hlt and boil elements, implying a 50 amp panel? or maybe ebrewsupply updated their design a few years back and include separate breakers for hlt and boil elements, even in 30 amp panels? i have the 30 amp panel but only a single 32 amp breaker to protect both elements (of course, i can only run one at a time).

 

[Gruel]

I reached out to ebrewsupply but havent heard back yet and figured I would try to source some help here. Panel has run flawlessly for 4.5 years, Friday I smelled some plastic melting as I was coming to a boil and found my panel was about to go poof...


Main supply outlet is fused to the cable. and the black line to the breaker is cooked as well as the receptacle for that line. I have a new plug and outlet but didn't discover the breaker till today when I pulled the panel off the wall.

My suspicion is a lose cable caused the burn out. my cable was resting against my glycol chiller which constantly vibrates. I don't know this to be fact. But its my guess atm.

what else should I look at replacing to not have this happen again? everything in between the breaker and main outlet looks fine. The ssr inline with the melted breaker looks fine as well. Should I pull everything from the SSR on down to the outlet?

Jekeane, if two separate spots overheated, then the only logical explanation is that you had bad contact with high contact resistance and/or sparking in both places. This is worrisome as it raises the possibility that you might have more loose connections elsewhere.
(The heat did not get magically transported from point A to point B; these were separate loose connections that might have been overheating and working themselves looser with every thermal cycle for quite a while.)

Assuming the wires are sized correctly and the panel is designed to code, the wires themselves should all be protected by breakers or fuses against overheating. But it can't hurt to double check that all wires are copper, and that the gauges are large enough to be protected by the breakers before them.

I do not think all the wiring between the two points that overheated is damaged, except of course for the two wires that were part of the two bad connections.

I would check all other connections and wire terminals for discoloration and other indications of heat damage, replace the damaged components, and re-tighten all connections.

 

[jekeane]

Jekeane, if two separate spots overheated, then the only logical explanation is that you had bad contact with high contact resistance and/or sparking in both places. This is worrisome as it raises the possibility that you might have more loose connections elsewhere.
(The heat did not get magically transported from point A to point B; these were separate loose connections that might have been overheating and working themselves looser with every thermal cycle for quite a while.)

I would check all other connections and wire terminals for discoloration and other indications of heat damage, replace the damaged components, and re-tighten all connections.

This is the consensus from those who I have heard from. I'm fairly convinced that the cable resting on the glycol chiller loosened the wires by vibration. I also haven't checked or tightened anything in the 5 years its been running so could be just a factor of time and negligence. A new breaker arrives today and when I replace that and the outlet i'm going to run through and inspect everything else tightening and replacing wire if necessary. Hopefully get a water test in this weekend.

 

[jekeane]

EDIT: After thinking on it I turned the boil pid up from 0% work duty cycle and the LED came on to represent that %. The HLT is always on because that is always set to 100% Now to see if I can brewed without a fire this weekend although its going to be 100° outside so it may be inevitable.


If memory serves both of the SSR lights should both be on correct?

I replaced the breaker and outlet when I noticed that the right SSR isn't lit up.

Contactors turn over when I switch elements but the right SSR never lights up. I'm thinking this is a problem. Am I right?