Pale ale recipe advice: whirlpool hop amounts

[jsguitar]

I just threw this recipe together based on what I have for a pale ale and am looking for advice in general but specifically with regards to how much bittering and flavor/aroma I'll get with the whirlpool addition. I usually add hops at the beginning, 10, 5, and then some for a whirlpool/hop stand, but am going to just do a bittering addition and whirlpool on this one.

12 gallons (80% efficiency)

OG 1.052
IBU's 39.7
SRM 6.4

15.5lbs US 2 row (72.1%)
5lbs Weyermann Munich I (23.3%)
.5lb crystal 10 (2.3%)
.5lb crystal 60 (2.3%)

75 minute boil

1oz Magnum @ 14%AA 75 minutes
3oz Cascade @ 5.5%AA whirlpool 45 minutes
1oz CTZ @ 14%AA whirlpool 45 minutes

Yeast cultured from Odell


I'm brewing this Sunday so I'll be tweaking it a bit before then. I have some other crystal malts on hand and I have a good amount of cascade and CTZ on hand but not really much else that I think would work in this (Hallertau and Crystal).

Is it enough hops for the whirlpool? Anything else you'd change?

Thanks!

 

[McKnuckle]

What temperature do you intend on keeping the whirlpool/hopstand at? That will be an important factor. 45 minutes is a pretty long time; if the temp is fairly hot, like right after flameout with no chilling, you'll extract more bittering than you probably want from those additions.

174F is the magic number in a calculation I found. It assigns an increasing numeric factor for every degree over 174 to calculate a curve of hopstand IBU contributions. For example, the IBU for a hopstand at 175F is nominal; 190F is significant.

Sorry I don't have advice on the addition size. But I think it interacts with the temperature and hopstand time so I focused on that first.

 

[m00ps]

I think that looks solid. I do hopstands of 4oz usually for a hoppy character. For IPAs though ill do between 8 and 12 oz. Usually for those, I do one flameout addition, then another once the temp drops below 180 (kind of like the above poster)

 

[jsguitar]

What temperature do you intend on keeping the whirlpool/hopstand at? That will be an important factor. 45 minutes is a pretty long time; if the temp is fairly hot, like right after flameout with no chilling, you'll extract more bittering than you probably want from those additions.

174F is the magic number in a calculation I found. It assigns an increasing numeric factor for every degree over 174 to calculate a curve of hopstand IBU contributions. For example, the IBU for a hopstand at 175F is nominal; 190F is significant.

Sorry I don't have advice on the addition size. But I think it interacts with the temperature and hopstand time so I focused on that first.

I've usually chilled to 175 and held for about 30 minutes with the small additions I've done before. In this case I'm more concerned about getting the IBU's I want so I thought I'd throw the hops in at flameout, stir, and let it sit. I figure it will cool some over that time. Probably not a whole lot though.

I suppose I could do a 2 stage hop stand. I'm open to temperature and time suggestions that will get the IBU's I want and good flavor and aroma.

FWIW, the IBU's predicted are from using the whirlpool calculator in Beersmith. I'm not sure how they calculate it.

Thanks.

 

[jsguitar]

I think that looks solid. I do hopstands of 4oz usually for a hoppy character. For IPAs though ill do between 8 and 12 oz. Usually for those, I do one flameout addition, then another once the temp drops below 180 (kind of like the above poster)

So you how long do you usually let the hops sit? Thanks.

 

[m00ps]

Its usually between 20min (hoppy beer) to an hour (IPAs)

 

[jsguitar]

Its usually between 20min (hoppy beer) to an hour (IPAs)

Cool, thanks for your help.

Does anyone have any insight into how well Beersmith calculates whirlpool IBU's ? It doesn't mention specific temperatures.

 

[jsguitar]

I'm mashing this now. I decided to go with a 30 hop stand at flameout without any chilling during that time. I'm sure it will be good and I'll get some idea of what to do in the future.

 

[jsguitar]

I just thought I'd update this in case anybody looks at this to say that this came out really well and has become my house APA with some variations based on what I have on hand. I have been dry hopping with .75 oz Cascade and .25 oz CTZ per 5 gal corny keg but I've found that for an everyday drinker I like it alot without dry hopping. (My tastes may be changing over the years.) I just brewed it with WLP001 and it's good but I think the hops are more upfront and the malt is more in the background compared to using O'Dells yeast. I might try k-97 dry yeast or wlp029 in the future if I don't have the O'Dells yeast.

ETA: Here is a link to the brewersfriend advanced water chemistry calculator with my water code for those interested: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/ My reload code for this beer (with slightly different malt bill) is W1S7C0Y . I have about 78ppm sulfate because I've found I don't like huge amounts of it even in hoppy beers. I also find I usually need a bit less phosphoric acid than predicted with this calculator as seen in my notes.