Oxygenation Question

[Scott Kellen]

How are more experienced brewers addressing initial yeast oxygenation? I tried the vigorous stirring method with my chilled wort and I thought all the bubbles I was generating were enough but I observed only about 2 days of active bubbling from my fermenter.

I still have a fairly decent Krausen but at day six no bubbling present.

 

[balrog]

DO you smell it still?
I ask that in these threads because the yeast is likely still going fine, but buckets and stoppers have a way of leaking the CO2 without forcing it through the airlock, so smelling the fermentation in the closet or chamber or corner of the room where it sits shows that outgassing still goes.

 

[dmtaylor]

As @balrog indicates, airlock watching is not wise since things can leak. If you have krausen, it's probably still fermenting. This is also yeast strain specific. Which yeast are you using? For example, German ale yeasts such as Wyeast 2565 will keep a krausen on top for 5-6 weeks even though there's not much fermentation happening for the last 4 weeks. Finally.... oxygenation/aeration really has nothing to do with what you are seeing.

 

[Soulshine2]

How are more experienced brewers addressing initial yeast oxygenation? I tried the vigorous stirring method with my chilled wort and I thought all the bubbles I was generating were enough but I observed only about 2 days of active bubbling from my fermenter.

I still have a fairly decent Krausen but at day six no bubbling present.

I'm not sure what youre asking. Sounds to me like you're doing things right. 2 days hard fermentation, Kraeusen ,by day 6 it might be getting close to being done...whats the problem? Let it clean up another 4-5 days, check gravity and if its at your target FG ,prime and package it.

 

[IslandLizard]

What kind of yeast do you use? Liquid or dry? Starters?

With a good pitch amount in a vitality starter, plus wort oxygenation I have lift off within 18 hours, often faster. That's at around 66-68F.

 

[Scott Kellen]

I used dry ale yeast. I did not use a starter, pitched yeast directly into the wort.

 

[Scott Kellen]

I can still smell a faint wort/yeasty smell. Not sure the correct term here...

 

[Scott Kellen]

Thank you. I'll take your advice.

 

[Scott Kellen]

I'm using an American ale dry yeast I should have kept better notes.

 

[kh54s10]

Your fermentation appears to be totally normal. Both in timing and what you are seeing.

 

[davidabcd]

observed only about 2 days

I second or third any posts that say it's fine. If you are the kind of person (like I am) willing to stare at an airlock on day four or five and wait for a bubble to appear, there's a good chance one will. It's good advice to check for any leaks/make sure the lid is secure or the like though I don't think that's the case here since you were getting bubbles.

Let it sit for a week or three before taking a reading.

On the yeast, I've read from some manufacturer's sites that dry doesn't even need to be oxygenated. I still take my steel-slotted spoon and paddle until it's frothy and my arm is tired and I shoot about four ounces onto the floor. I like keeping my process consistent even if some of it falls under the superstition category.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm using an American ale dry yeast I should have kept better notes.

Alright, for dry yeast you don't need or even want a starter, but they're a must for liquid yeasts.

Pitching by simply sprinkling on top is the preferred method now. So is not aerating/oxygenating, although it shouldn't hurt if you did. I haven't seen any proof for or against yet.

If there's still a krausen, fermentation is ongoing. Don't judge by airlock activity, unless it's a really closed vessel.

 

[balrog]

Yea, in short, step off, step back, relax, go away, don't look at it for 2 weeks.

 

[Scott Kellen]

Alright, for dry yeast you don't need or even want a starter, but they're a must for liquid yeasts.

Pitching by simply sprinkling on top is the preferred method now. So is not aerating/oxygenating, although it shouldn't hurt if you did. I haven't seen any proof for or against yet.

If there's still a krausen, fermentation is ongoing. Don't judge by airlock activity, unless it's a really closed vessel.

Thanks.

 

[DVCNick]

I've only been at this for about 21 batches, but I can say so far that I have not seen any results/outcomes that I can say for sure differ based on oxygenation.

For example, I've never made ANY effort to oxygenate yeast starters (some do), and they seem to grow fine in the same timeframes I read about online.

For my 5gal batch fermentations, I've done a mix of things.
1) Nothing
2) Oxygenated with a disposable $10 bottle and stone - My little regulator for this seems to be a POS and leaks everywhere, and/or the bottle valve also seems to leak a bit. I was getting 1 to 2 uses per $10 bottle... not keen on that, so I haven't done it in a while.
3) Splash the wort as much as possible transferring from the kettle to the fermenter. This probably isn't highly effective especially since it is still usually in the 100-110 degree range when I'm doing this transfer.

I've used both liquid yeast starters and dry packs straight pitched. In every case I've ended up with beer that reaches the right final gravity and tastes really good.

The one thing that seems to be different for me; my fermentations are not done in under a week; not even close. I've got two batches in the fermenter now; one is 17 days in and the other at 9, krausen still up on both with active fermentation visible. Is this due to poor oxygenation? Maybe, I have no idea. But I expect the older one will likely be done by this weekend; right when I think it is never going to finish, it gets still and clears pretty quickly.

 

[kh54s10]

The one thing that seems to be different for me; my fermentations are not done in under a week; not even close. I've got two batches in the fermenter now; one is 17 days in and the other at 9, krausen still up on both with active fermentation visible. Is this due to poor oxygenation? Maybe, I have no idea. But I expect the older one will likely be done by this weekend; right when I think it is never going to finish, it gets still and clears pretty quickly.

I don't know what is the cause, or if you are really knowing when you hit FG. Often some krausen will remain even quite a while after the beer is done fermenting. I have never had one take longer than 14 days. I don't always keg or bottle it then. I wait for them to clear. Some take longer to clear without finings or cold crashing.

If your fermentations are taking longer than 17 days I would resume oxygenating before pitching the yeast. It should not take that long.

What lag times are you getting before seeing signs of fermentation? If consistently over 12-18 hours I would say you have a problem.

 

[homebrewcrew]

Do a hydrometer test if you think it’s stalled. Sounds normal to me though. I always just shake my buckets for maybe 10 minutes total (couple at a time while I clean up) then pitch and seal up. Usually have good fermentation going within 24 hours. Usually 8-12

 

[DVCNick]

I don't know what is the cause, or if you are really knowing when you hit FG. Often some krausen will remain even quite a while after the beer is done fermenting. I have never had one take longer than 14 days. I don't always keg or bottle it then. I wait for them to clear. Some take longer to clear without finings or cold crashing.

If your fermentations are taking longer than 17 days I would resume oxygenating before pitching the yeast. It should not take that long.

What lag times are you getting before seeing signs of fermentation? If consistently over 12-18 hours I would say you have a problem.

Thanks.. not trying to hijack the thread so hopefully my stories are useful for the OP.

Usually I do see some activity starting at +/- 12 hours (has been as short as 8); the one exception being the most recent one sitting currently at 9 days; it is using a new-to-me yeast (London ESB 1968). The starter took about 24 hours to start showing any visible signs of life (three times longer than normal for me); at first I chalked that up to thinking the pack was almost dead; it was shipped to me and was quite hot when I first took it out of the box. But then the main batch showed a similar delay; it took basically 36 hours from pitching before I started seeing any outgassing on the airlock. But like I said, that is the exception.

I could be wrong, but to me on the 17 day batch all the signs are there; krausen up, visible churning, frequent bubbles, and it is still very cloudy. And I've made that beer several times before, so I know it will clear at the end when it's ready.

 

[mongoose33]

Alright, for dry yeast you don't need or even want a starter, but they're a must for liquid yeasts.

Pitching by simply sprinkling on top is the preferred method now. So is not aerating/oxygenating, although it shouldn't hurt if you did. I haven't seen any proof for or against yet.

If there's still a krausen, fermentation is ongoing. Don't judge by airlock activity, unless it's a really closed vessel.

Been looking for a place to jump in here.

I'm currently fermenting a sort of ESB/Amber ale thing. I used S-04 dry yeast.

1. Sprinkling on top is actually the best approach.

2. You do not need to oxygenate with dry yeast. It's been cultured and then dried and packaged in such a way that it's packed with Sterols, which are necessary to producing cell walls. To create more yeast cells the budding needs that. Normally oxygen is used (most efficiently) to do that, but with dry yeast you don't need to oxygenate.

3. I know that sounds weird. I'm still struggling with it, but it works to not oxygenate.

4. Would it hurt to oxygenate? Not really.

5. However, the beer I'm fermenting was brewed on Sunday. Pitched the dry yeast at 12:30pm. I never saw any evidence of activity via the blowoff jar before I went to bed at 11:30pm.

6. Next morning, 6:30am: bubbling. Not really vigorously, but bubbling away nonetheless. So, in less than 18 hours, I have activity.

7. I pitched at 77 degrees, let it sit there for a few hours, brought it down to 71, then 66 degrees.

8. Monday morning, dropped it to 64 degrees.

9. Today is Wednesday. OG was 1.058. I have a TILT hydrometer in there that read 1.055 (at high levels it's not quite as accurate). This morning, 6:30am, I was down to 1.024 gravity.

I need to run home and close up the fermenter now so it can self-carb. But I didn't oxygenate the wort, and it'll essentially be done by tomorrow morning--maybe even tonite.

So, no oxygenation, and I'm still getting vigorous fermentation. We'll see, later, how it tastes, but no evidence it'll be different than normal.