Overly spicy wit - mash issue?

[beernaked]

Greetings brewers

I'm in the process of making my first Belgian styled witbier and have struggled to find an encouraging answer as to why it tastes so peppery nearing the end of fermentation.

I'm well aware that Wyeast 3944 (which I used, also for the first time) is known to produce phenolic/peppery notes and that this is common for the style, but what I'm tasting is almost as spicy as a ginger beer after about 1 1/2 weeks in the fermentor.

Wyeast note in a FAQ that limiting the 45C (113F) mash rest will limit production of the per-cursors that result in phenolic compounds. I was instructed 15 minutes at 50C (122F) but on the day I ended up with more like 20-25 minutes at ~45C with a particularly stiff mash after neglecting to consider mash tun dead-space. Also possibly relevant is that I had a several weevil maggots in the mash from the rolled oats - Doh! - but then I shrugged and figured the extra protein might help with head retention

In spite of this, it was a textbook brew day. Mashed for 90 minutes after infusing with hot water, raising to ~66C (151F) and going from stiff to well wetted.

Can any of the above be a major contributing factor, or am I being overly presumptuous about the final flavor at this point in time?

Should I expect the spicyness to subdue over the next couple weeks?

Cheers!
Beernaked


**I'll add that about a day before sampling this, I agitated the carboy a bit to encourage some 1 1/2" of yeast krausen to drop and keep working. I may have sampled a bit of remaining krausen when I tasted it the following day but not completely sure. I've no idea what the krausen of this yeast taste like, and I'd rather not know...possibly peppery ?

 

[Talgrath]

I'm not familiar with the yeast, but if it works like a hefeweizen yeast then the lower the temperature during fermentation the more spicy/clove flavors you will get, what has the fermentation temperature been like? Also, it's very possible this will all clear up after another week in fermentation and then bottling/kegging; what the beer tastes like before it is done isn't necessarily its actual taste once it is bottled or kegged.

 

[beernaked]

Ambient temperature was a pretty consistent 21 C / 70 F. I put a probe with bubble-wrap on the the side of the carboy about 5 days in and it settled to just under 22 C / 71.5 F but initial temperature might have been higher with yeast activity.

I'll definitely give it some time. I've learned this from other brews!

Currently it has been bottle conditioning for almost a week. I've tasted a sample which seems to be a little more tame but still too phenolic for my liking. Still, I've had beers behave like this before so we'll see..

 

[mabrungard]

When I MC'd the lecture on 'Debunking the Decoction' at the 2014 AHA conference, the presenter had a hefeweizen for sampling. That was the MOST clove-forward hefe I had ever tasted. It turned out that his first rest was at 105F. So I guess we can infer that reducing the temp for your ferulic acid rest can be used to increase the clovey spiciness. I suppose that means you can reduce it by bumping the temp up.

 

[beernaked]

I'll try shortening the rest time next brew, or maybe do without and see what happens.

Fortunately for this brew it has mellowed to the point where it's easily drinkable.

 

[helibrewer]

Looks like that yeast produces clove according to Wyeast. Very few yeast strains have the enzyme to convert ferulic acid. Hefeweisen yeasts do and it appears this one does also. Low temps (~115) produce a lot of precursor for clove production so unless you want that character you should dough in no lower that 50C (122F). You only need a few minutes here to finish off the B-glucan breakdown then ramp up to rest temp 65-66C(150-152). With a wit this is probably beneficial do to the wheat component.

At 45C you were at maximum clove production temperature.

 

[beernaked]

Thanks for the advice - I'll make sure the dough-in temperature is towards the hotter side of 50C next time..

Some wit recipe procedures don't prescribe a dough in period at all..just wondering what the consequence of that would be, i.e. skipping dough in and going straight to a 65-66C mash? Are we to just expect a lower efficiency or also noticeable changes in flavour and mouthfeel?

FYI my grain bill was 4.5lb flaked wheat, 5lb NZ pils, 0.25lb vienna and 1lb rolled oats (not instant) derived from a Zainasheff/BYO recipe.