Combined β-Glucan / Ferulic / Protein Rest at 45°C/113°F?

[Protos]

I'm planning to brew my second iteration of Saison d'Épeautre (my first attempt last year came out unremarkable) with 33% unmalted Spelt, following a recipe from Craft Beer & Brewing.
Prior to mashing, the Spelt will be cooked for 30 minutes. Because of such a massive adjunct addition (and also because of my Barley malt being undermodified and protein-rich), I need to perform a β-Glucan and Protein rests.
Also I want to perform a Ferulic Acid rest, by which I hope to coax some phenolics from Lalbrew Belle Saison (which, from many my previous experiences, is quite bland and neutral - way more neutral than, say, M29, which throws plenty of phenols with no need of any additional rests).

I could make three rests: β-Glucan at 38C/100F, Ferulic at 43C/110F and Protein at 50C/122F. I want, however, to combine all three at 45C/113F.
The problem is that the 45C/113F temperature stands at the lower limit of the Protein rest. Some even say it's below the limit. My sources are contradictory: some say the lower limit for the Protein rest is 45C/113F while some state it's 50C/122F.
I hope somebody here might know better which is correct?

Also I think I'll need to lengthen significantly the combined rest for a sufficient Protein degradation at the lower temp. Perhaps, like 45 minutes, instead of the standard 15.

 

[hottpeper13]

I might do a modified cereal mash.
1- put unmodified malt in brewing liquor and gelatinize at 180-190
2- add ice so that the pils addition brings it to 113
3- rest 15-20 min ,add heat while stirring to get to the other steps ending at 160
4- The mash should be really loose and can be boiled for 20 min with only a little stirring.
At this time I would add to the main mash resting at 143 to get to 160,like doing a decoction.

 

[dmtaylor]

I would just do the ferulic at 43C/110F for whatever time you think is appropriate (30 minutes?) then call that good enough.

I would advise against a rest at 50C/122F unless you enjoy thin, lifeless, headless beer, even if for just 5-10 minutes. Skip this step for sure.

Honestly, I don't think you'll get very much more out of the Belle Saison yeast. It's phenolic, but very mild. Still, might be worth a shot doing the ferulic rest.

 

[Protos]

Hmmm, I never noticed the detrimental impacts of the Protein rest you mention. I employ it in my German Lager batches, because it's often suggested in German recipes - sometimes as a step in a decoction schedule. My impression is that it actually does nothing when mashing good German malts, so I employ it just to follow the recipe precisely.
With poorer Polish, Latvian etc. malts however it does really help extraction and prevents huge clumps of protein forming during the boil. So I often do the Protein rest when using those poorer malts - as I plan in this case. I wouldn't even bother with the Protein rest if I were using Weyermann's or Château malts for this brew.

Maybe I miss something and need to make a Protein-Rest "Exbeeriment" sometime. It's been done already on Brulosophy but I don't trust it much: those taster panels are proverbially never able to tell the difference between their samples (I wonder, if they could tell apart Rum from Milk, if given the task).

 

[Miraculix]

In my experience, which matches what I've read about the topic before, a short protein rest at 55c aids head retention.

There are basically two types of enzymes active during the protein rest. One that cuts the protein in small pieces and one that cuts the proteins into medium sized pieces.

You want to favour the later to enhance head retention and you do this by using the upper end of the protein rest temperature range. The upper end is at about 55-56 degrees Celsius.

I have no personal experience with going lower, but according to what I have read, it might be a bad idea, especially if you plan to spent a long time on this lower temperature step.

Also important for head retention, keep the step short. 10-15 minutes is enough at 55c.

My advice is not to combine the rests, use two steps, one really low ferulic rest and when doing the protein rest, do it for 15 minutes at 55c.

 

[DuncB]

Perhaps cereal mash, use chiller to get to 43 add some of your enzyme malt, then raise to 55 add the rest of malt then after rest mash as planned higher.
Maybe a change of yeast is a simpler path, after all a saison was a simple beer at one time.

 

[Protos]

Thanks for your suggestions, gentlemen!
It seems, I'm really better off with doing two rests as some of you suggested.
Some research online confirmed that Protein degradation perfectly occurs at 45C. However, a prolonged mash at that temp could be detrimental to the quality of beer.
I won't save much in terms of time and effort combining different rests. So I gonna go the traditional way, which I always prefer anyway.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for your suggestions, gentlemen!
It seems, I'm really better off with doing two rests as some of you suggested.
Some research online confirmed that Protein degradation perfectly occurs at 45C. However, a prolonged mash at that temp could be detrimental to the quality of beer.
I won't save much in terms of time and effort combining different rests. So I gonna go the traditional way, which I always prefer anyway.

Don't forget to let us know about the resulting beer!

 

[monkeymath]

I really need to drink my big stash of beer so I can finally order some Belgian saisons, including Saison d'Epeautre, which I haven't had yet.

You asked about mashing, but since any saison-related thread is going to turn into a discussion of yeasts and you don't seem to be too happy with Belle: ...

Since WY3726 (aka Imperial Rustic) is supposedly the strain used by Blaugies, why don't you give that yeast a try? I think it makes a fantastic saison, much better than Belle or M29. If you can get hold of it, I also really liked The Yeast Bay "Saison Blend". Similar aroma, but a bit "fuller", with creamier mouthfeel - it's a bit like Belle in that regard.
For a dry yeast alternative, I'm going to try BE-134 next.

 

[Protos]

I'm really sort of settled regarding the yeast choise for this batch. I think Belle isn't the worst option in this case, because too flavorful a yeast may hide the Spelt flavour, whatever it is (to learn the Spelt was one of the reasons behind the recipe choice). I just don't want it to be too neutral, and I don't expect the Ferulic rest would extract plenty of phenols from it. Just a bit will suffice.

Of Saison yeast, I'm limited only to dry options:
- M29 (my favourite, I have already brewed with it this summer, a Peated Rye Saison)
- BE-134 (which I have to step up from the dregs of my earlier Grisette batch; my opinion it's much closer to Belle than to M29, so why the hassle if I already have Belle)
- Belle Saison (I haven't brewed with it for a while and need to use up what remains in the resealed sachet)
- Gozdawa Noble Saison (which I strongly suppose to be just a repacked Belle, so I'm not too eager to try it anywhere soon)
- and finally M31 (which used to sorely disappoint me in Tripels but turned out to be an excellent Saison yeast; gonna make a Saison de Pipaix with it in the coming weeks).

Although no liquid Saison yeast are available.to me, most of the time I'm perfectly happy with my dry yeasts in (not so rare) cases when I do everything right and don't screw up my another Saison batch (which is very easy to do since I brew my Saisons on the peak of summer to give them a hot fermentation and to boost the Saisony flavour profile).

 

[Miraculix]

I'm really sort of settled regarding the yeast choise for this batch. I think Belle isn't the worst option in this case, because too flavorful a yeast may hide the Spelt flavour, whatever it is (to learn the Spelt was one of the reasons behind the recipe choice). I just don't want it to be too neutral, and I don't expect the Ferulic rest would extract plenty of phenols from it. Just a bit will suffice.

Of Saison yeast, I'm limited only to dry options:
- M29 (my favourite, I have already brewed with it this summer, a Peated Rye Saison)
- BE-134 (which I have to step up from the dregs of my earlier Grisette batch; my opinion it's much closer to Belle than to M29, so why the hassle if I already have Belle)
- Belle Saison (I haven't brewed with it for a while and need to use up what remains in the resealed sachet)
- Gozdawa Noble Saison (which I strongly suppose to be just a repacked Belle, so I'm not too eager to try it anywhere soon)
- and finally M31 (which used to sorely disappoint me in Tripels but turned out to be an excellent Saison yeast; gonna make a Saison de Pipaix with it in the coming weeks).

Although no liquid Saison yeast are available.to me, most of the time I'm perfectly happy with my dry yeasts in (not so rare) cases when I do everything right and don't screw up my another Saison batch (which is very easy to do since I brew my Saisons on the peak of summer to give them a hot fermentation and to boost the Saisony flavour profile).

Spelt doesn't bring any flavour on its own. I made a 50% spelt flour 50% pilsner malt saison with Imperial rustic (really good yeast) and the grain bill did not really show anything. I made a variety of beers with higher spelt flour amount, always the same, it is pretty neutral. Just like wheat.

 

[Protos]

Oops.
"That will be nutty and unique", they said.
"That will be less wheaty than wheat", they said.

Well, that was them too who promoted Rye as "spicy". Rye is my staple grain and even my 100% Rye Roggenwein isn't anywhere "spicy". So I don't put much credit into their taste descriptions.
Need to taste it myself.
If Spelt tastes the same as Wheat, no problems. I liked my previous wheaty Saisons.

 

[Miraculix]

Oops.
"That will be nutty and unique", they said.
"That will be less wheaty than wheat", they said.

Well, that was them too who promoted Rye as "spicy". Rye is my staple grain and even my 100% Rye Roggenwein isn't anywhere "spicy". So I don't put much credit into their taste descriptions.
Need to taste it myself.
If Spelt tastes the same as Wheat, no problems. I liked my previous wheaty Saisons.

Good to see that we are on the same page regarding rye. I'll bet it will be the same with spelt as well.

I use it in 99% of my beers, 10% gives a nice foam boost and nothing more. I love it. I got it at home for baking anyway, if I wouldn't have it already, I'd happily substitute it with wheat flour.

 

[monkeymath]

Oh well. I sometimes like to mix things up for my morning's cereal and buy flaked grains other than oats. Flaked spelt tastes pretty much like paper to me. It might still have some positive contribution to the wort; I just wouldn't count on a massive flavour on its own. Spelt malt, where available at all, is pretty expensive, so I'll usually stick with malted wheat, I think.
But there are other grains I'd still like to try (probably unmalted, though), such as einkorn.

 

[Protos]

There are some exotic grains I wannna try too! One of them is Millet. I have plenty of it for my porridges, and plan to try it in brewing sometime. My first idea was an African Millet Beer, so I delved into web research on the subject and found some very detailed information on brewing it. Pity, the peculiar multi-strain yeast is absolutely unobtainable to me. The only thing I think I can procure localy is the Fecal Escherichia Coli Bacteria, which scientific papers mention as an integral part of the mix. Unfortunately, it's just a tiny bit of the whole fungal/bacterial assemblage, so isn't enough for a proper fermentation.
I still hope to find some decent recipe to try unmalted Millet in it. Everything I've found to date are numerous modern recipes for the Celiac Disease Impaired, and I prefer to find some traditional recipes, aside from the African versions.

 

[mashpaddled]

I'm really sort of settled regarding the yeast choise for this batch. I think Belle isn't the worst option in this case, because too flavorful a yeast may hide the Spelt flavour, whatever it is (to learn the Spelt was one of the reasons behind the recipe choice). I just don't want it to be too neutral, and I don't expect the Ferulic rest would extract plenty of phenols from it. Just a bit will suffice.

I've used spelt a few times and never felt it was overshadowed by more aggressive yeast flavor. I don't love the taste of spelt so much that I felt like it was worth the cost.

122F is optimal for a protein rest but beta-glucanase denatures at that temperature. At 113F you'll overlap all three rests although you may want to bump up the heat to do a separate 122F rest because protease works slowly at 113F.

No ability to culture liquid yeast out of a commercial bottle? That would open up a few more strains to you depending on what you can get. I just don't think Belle is capable of producing a lot of phenolics even with the ferulic acid rest. If culturing a different strain isn't an option, maybe (for future batches) try blending in one of the dry abbey/Trappist strains or give in and add pepper or other phenolic spices to help round out the yeast character.

Oops.
"That will be nutty and unique", they said.
"That will be less wheaty than wheat", they said.

Well, that was them too who promoted Rye as "spicy". Rye is my staple grain and even my 100% Rye Roggenwein isn't anywhere "spicy". So I don't put much credit into their taste descriptions.
Need to taste it myself.
If Spelt tastes the same as Wheat, no problems. I liked my previous wheaty Saisons.

Most people in the US, where the spicy idea came from, don't know what rye actually tastes like. Most people only get rye in bread that's flavored with caraway so rye+caraway is the "spicy" rye flavor. There's a sweet spot where a good amount of rye adds an earthy/fruity taste that I guess you could call spicy, like it tastes like a spice, in some sense. In large amounts it's fruity and not spice-like at all. In small amounts rye doesn't contribute much in the way of flavor.

 

[Protos]

Great commentt, mashpaddled!

I'm still yet to find any particular flavour (whether spicy or fruity) that Rye imparts, even at its highest concentrations. If anything, I didn't feel much flavour contribution even at 75 and 100 percents of it in the grist. The flavour profile in all my beers of this type was defined solely by the yeast (Weizen and Köln type yeasts was what I used in those experimental batches).
To me, Rye tastes pretty neutral, aside from its phenomenal body-building capability. That's what I like Rye for: a natural unobtrusive substitute for artificial Maltodextrine, and I love chewy and low-attenuated beers.

There is a truly spicy type of Rye: the Red Fermented Rye Malt, well known in Northern, Central and Eastern Europe and not unheard of in German baking craft. Finnish Kaljamallas used in Sahti is probably the best known example of this type of grain. Just 4% of it makes the beer uniquely characterful, and at 12% it makes the brew anything but spicy. I agree, however, that's not where the proverbial "Rye spiciness" false concept emerged from.

 

[Miraculix]

There are some exotic grains I wannna try too! One of them is Millet. I have plenty of it for my porridges, and plan to try it in brewing sometime. My first idea was an African Millet Beer, so I delved into web research on the subject and found some very detailed information on brewing it. Pity, the peculiar multi-strain yeast is absolutely unobtainable to me. The only thing I think I can procure localy is the Fecal Escherichia Coli Bacteria, which scientific papers mention as an integral part of the mix. Unfortunately, it's just a tiny bit of the whole fungal/bacterial assemblage, so isn't enough for a proper fermentation.
I still hope to find some decent recipe to try unmalted Millet in it. Everything I've found to date are numerous modern recipes for the Celiac Disease Impaired, and I prefer to find some traditional recipes, aside from the African versions.

I just came back from Nepal, Himalayas and of course I had my fair share of local traditional alcoholic beverages. Chang (unmalted fermented barley), Rakshi (distilled Chang) and.... drumroll.... Tongba.

Tongba comes in a special bamboo "cup" with a straw inside that resembles a bit the traditional Mate Tea straw. In the cup is unmalted fermented millet (including the husk). Hot water gets poured over the millet and you drink the hot beverage through the straw which filters out the whole millet grains. Hot water gets poured over it again and again, until there is no taste in the water left.

It really brings up body temperature, tastes good and gets you drunk.

You can use chinese rice wine yeast to ferment the millet. You just have to figure out the correct water/millet ratio when cooking it. Too much water=really sour beverage. Not enough water=really sweet beverage, not enough alcohol.

I would start with 1.1/1 water/millet ratio by weight as this works for my chang.

 

[Protos]

Really interesting!
Being formerly an Orientalist, I have collected a lot of information on Boza - the Millet alcoholic drink of Eurasian nomadic peoples. It comes in different strengths and in many different versions and even not always made with Millet (which is the most common grain for it, nevertheless). The common feature is an extremely laborious preparation (fermentation) of the unmalted Millet. I've tried the real thing (meh, I should say, something like a fancy hazy NEIPA a murky white Kwass - I haven't tried the strong version, though) but never dared to attempt brewing it myself. Again, just like with the African beer, the obstacle is the unobtainable peculiar yeast. The yeast is sold widely on city markets in Central Asian countries, but I wasn't a homebrewer back then when visiting those Lands of Infidels.

I'm surprised, to be honest, to hear about a similar drink existing in Himalayas. Never heard of it. I think I need to search for it in Ethnographic literature.
Also, your mentioning of the Chinese Rice Wine yeast gave me an idea to investigate, if the Chinese Rice Wine yeast related to the Asian Boza yeasts. If it happens to be so, I could use the Chinese yeast to brew me some Strong Boza following one of the recipes I have!
I'm not too fond of Boza, but what an experiment that would be!
(I'm not too fond of my 100% Rye Roggenwein either, but I'm very proud I dared and made it! )

 

[Miraculix]

Really interesting!
Being formerly an Orientalist, I have collected a lot of information on Boza - the Millet alcoholic drink of Eurasian nomadic peoples. It comes in different strengths and in many different versions and even not always made with Millet (which is the most common grain for it, nevertheless). The common feature is an extremely laborious preparation (fermentation) of the unmalted Millet. I've tried the real thing (meh, I should say, something like a fancy hazy NEIPA a murky white Kwass - I haven't tried the strong version, though) but never dared to attempt brewing it myself. Again, just like with the African beer, the obstacle is the unobtainable peculiar yeast. The yeast is sold widely on city markets in Central Asian countries, but I wasn't a homebrewer back then when visiting those Lands of Infidels.

I'm surprised, to be honest, to hear about a similar drink existing in Himalayas. Never heard of it. I think I need to search for it in Ethnographic literature.
Also, your mentioning of the Chinese Rice Wine yeast gave me an idea to investigate, if the Chinese Rice Wine yeast related to the Asian Boza yeasts. If it happens to be so, I could use the Chinese yeast to brew me some Strong Boza following one of the recipes I have!
I'm not too fond of Boza, but what an experiment that would be!
(I'm not too fond of my 100% Rye Roggenwein either, but I'm very proud I dared and made it! )

The chinese rice wine yeast is a mix of yeast and mold cultivated on rice flour. The mold chops the starches into pieces and the yeast eats the pieces and creates alcohol.

I am pretty sure it is the same thing as you are describing, it is literally the same thing all over the world where unmalted grains are fermented.

It obviously differs a bit from country to country regarding the exact composition, but it is the same principle.

The traditional Himalayan version includes for example some herbs which you won't find in the chinese version, but in general, it is the same thing. Kind of a poor man's sake type of fermentation. Always mold and yeast in combination. With more or less additional microorganisms.

 

[Protos]

I feel there's a big research of scientific literature lying ahead of me: Common Principles of Unmalted Millet Fermentation in the Traditional Cultures of the World and the Question of Interchangeability of the Yeast Strains Employed in the Process
Not exactly my field, but whatever, the cited subject is as close to Microbiology as it is to Ethnography.

Now, where I gonna find me some time to brew my Saison d'Épeautre, with all those multiple separate rests?

 

[Miraculix]

I feel there's a big research of scientific literature lying ahead of me: Common Principles of Unmalted Millet Fermentation in the Traditional Cultures of the World and the Question of Interchangeability of the Yeast Strains Employed in the Process
Not exactly my field, but whatever, the cited subject is as close to Microbiology as it is to Ethnography.

Now, where I gonna find me some time to brew the Saison d'Épeautre, with all those multiple separate rests?

It is not a specific yeast strain. It is about the combination of yeast with a certain type of mold. The mold delivers the enzymes to cut the starches into sugars and the yeast does it's yeasty thing with the sugars. At the end it is kind of a wild fermentation which is a little bit controlled. So you cannot really think about it as specific strains. The only organism which is a certain strain is the mold. I think, if I remember correctly, there are only one or two strains of mold that actually are able to do what needs to be done within this mixed fermentation. Add any mix of wild yeast to this mold plus some bacterias and you are probably good to go. this is basically what happens during the "yeast" ball production, whether on industrial scale or in the house on 4000m in the himalayas.

 

[Protos]

Well, I'm joking of course. I already foresee that my research will be much narrower and simpler, down to which kind of commercial yeast do the modern Boza brewers use for their fermentations?
I doubt they fiddle too much with slants and vials. On the markets 30 years ago, the Boza yeast was sold from the rags on the ground, as whitish pellets. Yeast balls, essentially. If they now don't keep the original culture but use Chinese sachets and think it a legit substitution, then better to me.

Of course, in this case the mix will be missing plus some bacterias (from the rags and from the ground), but whatever, little is bettter than nothing

 

[monkeymath]

In "The Art of Fermentation", Sandor Katz details the production of a sorghum beer in Sudan. I don't have my copy here, but if I remember correctly, you start with unmalted sorghum and then the process essentially combines malting, mashing and fermenting in several steps, repeatedly dividing and recombining the porridge. The fermentation is basically wild, with part of the sorghum acting as a kind of sourdough starter culture.

I originally gave up on the idea of making it myself as I couldn't find sorghum (except possibly as bird-feed, but eh), but I feel like I might attempt it with another grain instead at some point.

That's actually an approach I sympathize with: taking a process and philosophy from some place and applying it to locally available ingredients. Inspired by a conversation with @Knox , I've lately been toying with the idea of making a "Bavarian Cream Ale": imagine a parallel universe where the Bavarians weren't minimalist fascists, employing whatever grains they had available to make their lagers (yes, Cream Ale can be made with lager yeast, deal with it), be it barley, wheat, oat, rye, spelt, ...
I even have the perfect pun for the beer's name already: Bayerisch Creme (or Crème bavaroise), which is actually a desert made with cream and gelatin (yes, weird, I know) typically served with fruit.

 

[DuncB]

Ethiopian flatbread they just grind the teff to flour add water and it ferments to the sourdough and makes the flatbread. They don't seem to need to build the starter as you do for a normal flour sourdough.
The teff must be covered in the culture naturally.

 

[Miraculix]

Ethiopian flatbread they just grind the teff to flour add water and it ferments to the sourdough and makes the flatbread. They don't seem to need to build the starter as you do for a normal flour sourdough.
The teff must be covered in the culture naturally.

Does not work for teff that has been imported to europe though. I do not know if it gets treated in a way that destroys the mos, but mine just got moldy.

 

[DuncB]

Might only be native teff that is covered or the stones they grind on.
Netherlands apparently grows a lot so terroir might contribute, I've not come across Ethiopian teff in Europe or Australia or NZ.
Its very difficult to get here in NZ.

 

[Protos]

It seems I've found a dedicated commercial Boza yeast: it's sold online in Turkey (where I spend several months every year). Strangely though it doesnt look like the whitish yeast pellets I saw in Central Asia, the Turkish yeast look rather like amber semi-transparent flakes O_O
Will need to investigate it deeper.

 

[Miraculix]

It seems I've found a dedicated commercial Boza yeast: it's sold online in Turkey (where I spend several months every year). Strangely though it doesnt look like the whitish yeast pellets I saw in Central Asia, the Turkish yeast look rather like amber semi-transparent flakes O_O
Will need to investigate it deeper.

What was the outcome?

 

[Protos]

What was the outcome?

None as yet, unfortunately...
I did procure me some real Turkish Boza commercial yeast, still have had no time to fiddle with the immensely laborious grain preparations.
I feel like I'm badly overstocked with the stupidly huge Lager surplus I brewed this winter.
I doubt I'm back to brewing anytime soon in the foreseeable months, as hundreds of bottles amassed in my cellar (and I'm the only customer there) really scare me and challenge my liver capacity.
Oh, and also my low-alcoholic pasteurized Danish LA-01 experiment-turned-success. Another hundred or so, which has to be drunk sometime too.

Hi, I'm Protos and I have a grave Beer Overproduction Disorder which prevents me from brewing more beer and causes delays in my new brewing experiments

 

[Miraculix]

None as yet, unfortunately...
I did procure me some real Turkish Boza commercial yeast, still have had no time to fiddle with the immensely laborious grain preparations.
I feel like I'm badly overstocked with the stupidly huge Lager surplus I brewed this winter.
I doubt I'm back to brewing anytime soon in the foreseeable months, as hundreds of bottles amassed in my cellar (and I'm the only customer there) really scare me and challenge my liver capacity.
Oh, and also my low-alcoholic pasteurized Danish LA-01 experiment-turned-success. Another hundred or so, which has to be drunk sometime too.

Hi, I'm Protos and I have a grave Beer Overproduction Disorder which prevents me from brewing more beer and causes delays in my new brewing experiments

Smaller batches my friend, smaller batches.

 

[Protos]

Oh, they are small enough, just 5L each, nowhere to go smaller.

Another thing, I've brewed dozens of 'em, those smaller batches... My mistake was brewing twice a week. Now I have an ocean of high-quality German, Austrian, Bohemian, Baltic, Polish, Danish and American Lagers of different styles, strengths and levels of RHGB adherence, no way to throw the excess out (they're really good) and nowhere to give it away.

Overeager brewing might be a real problem. Lesson learned.

 

[Miraculix]

Oh, they are small enough, just 5L each, nowhere to go smaller.

Another thing, I've brewed dozens of 'em, those smaller batches... My mistake was brewing twice a week. Now I have an ocean of high-quality German, Austrian, Bohemian, Baltic, Polish, Danish and American Lagers of different styles, strengths and levels of RHGB adherence, no way to throw the excess out (they're really good) and nowhere to give it away.

Overeager brewing might be a real problem. Lesson learned.

Oh, that's a bit hardcore.

Now I'm getting why you said disorder

 

[Protos]

To give a scope of the problem.
Proudly presenting the list of my current Lager Collection brewed during the October 2022 - March 2023 Lagering season:

Historical recreations:
- Historical Wiener Lager of 1870
- Historical Oktoberfest of 1872
- Historical Dunklesbier of 1872
- Historical Salvatorbier Doppelbock of 1854

Modern German clones:
- Jever Pilsener clone
- Edelstoff Helles clone
- Koestritzer Schwarzbier clone
- Schlenkerla Urbock Rauchbier clone
- Ayinger Maibock clone

Polish clones:
- Historical Pilsner of Lwow of 1935
- Historical Porter of Lwow of 1935
- Historical Porter of Warsaw
- Polish Zywiec Light clone

Czech beers:
- Budweiser (the Bohemian, not the American one) clone
- Bohemian Bernsteinbier (better known as Czech Polotmave), a personal take on the style
- Moravian Dark Lager, a personal take on the style

Danish clones:
- Carlsberg Hof clone (the old recipe, with Dextrose)
- Carlsberg Elefant Bock clone (the new recipe, with Rice)

Baltic clones:
- Historical Latvian Lager with Honey
- Historical Latvian Wiener clone

Other:
- Huerlimanns Swiss-English Lager clone
- American Classic Lager with Maize

From the scientific point of view, this is a carefully selected and a perfectly representative array of Lagers.
In practical terms, it's above 260 bottles for a single guy who limits himself to no more than 2 bottles per day and no less than 2 alcohol-free days per week. Not counting here the most recent Danish Low-Alcohol and the English Mild&Bitter Collections, which came out pretty sizeable as well.

Which means, no new brewing sessions for me anytime soon

 

[Miraculix]

Well, Cheers then! I like your limits! I also try to go reasonably low on alcohol. During the week, it's usually no alcohol for me and at the weekend I also like to keep it low. Three or four beers on Friday evening are ok for me. But not a must!

 

[Protos]

To me, sometimes it's a must... Days happen when I don't feel like I crave a beer, still I do pour one or two as I know I need to use my stock up somehow and noone gonna help me with that.
Minor setbacks of the hobby

 

[dmtaylor]

I still have 12 cases in the cellar. I don't brew much anymore, because I have several years' worth to drink up already. Typically I only drink about 2 bottles a week. I love the craft, and I love what I create... but just am not a heavy drinker. And no I don't have many friends either.