Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[Dgallo]

great thanks! tell me about when you add your water minerals- i've heard mixed opinions on this

In both the mash and sparge water. Sometime I’ll need to adjust ph at the start of boil but that’s really rare since bru’n is pretty precise. I use slightly different adjustments based on each style of ipa and much different adjustments for different styles. This is a typical adjustment for a NEIPA for me.

 

[abrewer12345]

In both the mash and sparge water. Sometime I’ll need to adjust ph at the start of boil but that’s really rare since bru’n is pretty precise. I use slightly different adjustments based on each style of ipa and much different adjustments for different styles. This is a typical adjustment for a NEIPA for me. View attachment 641912

this is helpful. i used this as a target for my water profile. i'll post an update when this is kegged and poured. cheers!

 

[abrewer12345]

oh wait, one more question! beersmith is calling for 47 minute mash time. is that right?

 

[Dgallo]

oh wait, one more question! beersmith is calling for 47 minute mash time. is that right?

If I recall they call for around that amount of time so the last 10 minutes can be your “mashout” for alpha amalyse. Not necessarily needed, some brewers swear by it. With the grains of today you don’t really need to do it. Just mash your typical 60 min unless youre purposely brewing a style that has different mash rests.

 

[spersichilli]

Was at other half in June and took a picture of the sheet attached to a fermenter of DDH Double Citra Daydream. Picture isn't the best but you can see the vital info. It has the dry hopping rates too but unfortunately do not recall the fermenter size. Looks like they harvest the yeast before dry hopping, as well as use a 5:1 ratio of pellet to cryo/lupulin powder. Hope this is helpful

Yeast: A-18
OG: 18.2
Target FG: 3

 

[couchsending]

Interesting info

They’re using Joystick, the Rogue yeast.

Dry hopping for 2 days just after terminal.

PH is interesting, those are some pretty low pH numbers. Anyone ever measured a Joystick or 1764 (Pac-Man) fermentation? Amazed it gets that low.

I had a clean Ale yeast bottom out at 3.8 the other day which is much lower than I’ve ever seen. But a yeast not many people have probably used.

That’s a quick beer. Turning and burning that guy in 11 days... no wonder people complain about the burn in their beers!

 

[couchsending]

If I recall they call for around that amount of time so the last 10 minutes can be your “mashout” for alpha amalyse. Not necessarily needed, some brewers swear by it. With the grains of today you don’t really need to do it. Just mash your typical 60 min unless youre purposely brewing a style that has different mash rests.

Your efficiency will go up with a mash out step. I usually get a 1* Plato bump in gravity between end of alpha rest and end of mash out step.

 

[beervoid]

Interesting info

They’re using Joystick, the Rogue yeast.

Dry hopping for 2 days just after terminal.

PH is interesting, those are some pretty low pH numbers. Anyone ever measured a Joystick or 1764 (Pac-Man) fermentation? Amazed it gets that low.

I had a clean Ale yeast bottom out at 3.8 the other day which is much lower than I’ve ever seen. But a yeast not many people have probably used.

That’s a quick beer. Turning and burning that guy in 11 days... no wonder people complain about the burn in their beers!

I have had conan go down to 3.85 with a ko ph at 5.13

Also noticed the gravity increase from 4.2 to 4.5 on day 8 to 9? If thats because of the dry hopping how is it possible they crash after 2 days without any gravity drop at that temperature. You would expect the hops to restart fermentation.
Cant imagine they add lactose at that point either.

Really boggles my mind.

 

[beervoid]

Just did the math if their final plato was 4.5 that means they only got 7.7% abv for this particular batch. I speculate the hop creep didn't happen even they where anticipating on it since this IPA should be around 8.5%
Still doesnt explain the raise in gravity. Perhaps from hopoils not sugars?

 

[cheesebach]

I was pretty surprised to see Joystick as the yeast, so typed A18 into google quick and came up with this:

https://www.brewingscience.com/product/london-ale-iii/

I had a hunch they were using LAIII in most of their NEIPAs, which I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, so this being the A-18 referenced in the brew sheet makes a lot more sense to me. Looks like BSI also has a Conan strain, which I’ve seen OH list in the notes for a few of their beers, but don’t think I’ve had a chance to try any of those to see how they compare to their standard NEIPAs.

 

[skibb]

Am I missing seeing the second DH? It says DDH but I only see one addition, and it is at terminal after yeast harvest.

 

[couchsending]

I was pretty surprised to see Joystick as the yeast, so typed A18 into google quick and came up with this:

https://www.brewingscience.com/product/london-ale-iii/

I had a hunch they were using LAIII in most of their NEIPAs, which I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, so this being the A-18 referenced in the brew sheet makes a lot more sense to me. Looks like BSI also has a Conan strain, which I’ve seen OH list in the notes for a few of their beers, but don’t think I’ve had a chance to try any of those to see how they compare to their standard NEIPAs.

Ahh yes good catch. Talked to quite a few pro brewers who have moved to the BSI version due to inconsistencies from Wyeast. Makes more sense.

Am I missing seeing the second DH? It says DDH but I only see one addition, and it is at terminal after yeast harvest.

So maybe by Other Half’s definition DDH just means twice the amount not adding hops two different times?

Wouldn’t surprise me. Ferment it really warm for the fruity esters then pound it with hops.

If better yet it’s nothing more than straight marketing.

Any idea the size of this batch? I can’t quite understand based on those KO volumes that are listed.

 

[spersichilli]

Am I missing seeing the second DH? It says DDH but I only see one addition, and it is at terminal after yeast harvest.

Pretty sure they only use one DH charge, after they dump the yeast (so no "biotransformation DH"). So their DDH means double the amount

 

[spersichilli]

I was pretty surprised to see Joystick as the yeast, so typed A18 into google quick and came up with this:

https://www.brewingscience.com/product/london-ale-iii/

I had a hunch they were using LAIII in most of their NEIPAs, which I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, so this being the A-18 referenced in the brew sheet makes a lot more sense to me. Looks like BSI also has a Conan strain, which I’ve seen OH list in the notes for a few of their beers, but don’t think I’ve had a chance to try any of those to see how they compare to their standard NEIPAs.

Yeah good catch, the imperial one doesn't have a dash between the A and 18, so it seems more likely that it is the one you linked

 

[Dgallo]

Any idea the size of this batch? I can’t quite understand based on those KO volumes that are listed.

I was wondering this my self. If the dryhop numbers on the sheet are in lbs then I would think it’s between 30-50bbl. They have claimed they dryhop at a rate of 3lb/bbl and 5lb/bbl so that would be in that range

 

[skibb]

Maybe they are going from gallons to barrels for some reason?

615 gallons = 19.8 BBL (which is the number we see on the flowmeter part next to it)
19.5 on second KO matches the flowmeter part.

Both of these combined equal slightly more than what is written down. Either way, I believe the total batch volume is ~39 BBL.

 

[TBryerton]

Pretty sure they only use one DH charge, after they dump the yeast (so no "biotransformation DH"). So their DDH means double the amount

I thought I listened to a podcast with Sam and he specifically stated DDH = 2 different dry hop additions. I’ll see if I can find it. Although that doesn’t mean his process can change.

 

[sicktght311]

Have my own Other Half clone in my fermenter right now chugging away. First dry hop went in on day 2, waiting for the next dry hop on day 5 or 6 once fermentation subsides, then i'll cold crash a couple days later and keg. Using Citra and Cashmere for this version with Lactose and i increased my flaked adjuncts. Will report back once its carbed and pouring

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Just did the math if their final plato was 4.5 that means they only got 7.7% abv for this particular batch. I speculate the hop creep didn't happen even they where anticipating on it since this IPA should be around 8.5%
Still doesnt explain the raise in gravity. Perhaps from hopoils not sugars?

Or they could be adding maltodextrin at the end to raise gravity. I listened to a podcast with Scott Janish the other day and he said he likes his hazy IPAs to finish around 1.020 at Sapwood Cellars, and if they finish lower he'll sometimes add maltodex at the end to get them up a bit.

 

[skibb]

So the leaf material of hops (bract) does contain a small amount of starch/sugar. This could be what is responsible for the minuscule gravity pick-up after the DH.

Brew and Hops school podcast explores this phenomenon in their hop creep episode (ep8)

 

[sicktght311]

My other half clone dropped like a rock. 1.070 to 1.019/1.020 in 2.5 days. 1st dryhop charge went in during active fermentation, and i just put the last (larger) dryhop in last night. Going to give it a couple of days, and then start my cold crash. Tomorrow will be 1 week since brew day so i'll most likely have it kegged up by Monday or Tuesday. First taste before the 2nd drophop was phenomenal. I love the Citra/Cashmere combination so much

 

[abrewer12345]

our version is moving a little slower than i'd like but it's still going. OG was 1.061 vs a target of 1.069 which is a bummer, but fine. added first dry hop charge at day 3. took gravity last night (day 5) and it was at 1.032 or so. does this seem slow to anyone here?

 

[sicktght311]

What is your expected FG? How much lactose did you use and what were your mash temps. Also has it been steady at 1.032 for a few days? Or is day 5 the first time you measured the gravity

 

[abrewer12345]

What is your expected FG? How much lactose did you use and what were your mash temps. Also has it been steady at 1.032 for a few days? Or is day 5 the first time you measured the gravity

.66lb of lactose, mash temp was 156, and i just took it for the first time yesterday. i'm assuming its still fermenting, or hoping so. the estimated FG is 1.023. we used bootleg biology NEEPAH, 1 pack into 1L of starter for 24 hours, decanted, then pitched another 1L starter on that.

 

[abrewer12345]

.66lb of lactose, mash temp was 156, and i just took it for the first time yesterday. i'm assuming its still fermenting, or hoping so. the estimated FG is 1.023. we used bootleg biology NEEPAH, 1 pack into 1L of starter for 24 hours, decanted, then pitched another 1L starter on that.

also, 5.5gal FYI

 

[sicktght311]

at 156, and .66lb of lactose, that's probably not THAT far off your FG. I would assume you'll prob finish down around 1.024-1.025. So you might just be chugging away at the last few gravity points. I mash at 152 and used .75lbs lactose and my expected FG is 1.022. Have you raised the mash temp? I typically ferment lower (64 if i'm using us04, 66-68 if i'm using 1318 or Juice or whatever), and then raise to 70-72 when i'm at my final few gravity points to go.

 

[abrewer12345]

at 156, and .66lb of lactose, that's probably not THAT far off your FG. I would assume you'll prob finish down around 1.024-1.025. So you might just be chugging away at the last few gravity points. I mash at 152 and used .75lbs lactose and my expected FG is 1.022. Have you raised the mash temp? I typically ferment lower (64 if i'm using us04, 66-68 if i'm using 1318 or Juice or whatever), and then raise to 70-72 when i'm at my final few gravity points to go.

yep- just using what i have around the house. my situation is just a carboy still, so i wrap a strong jacket around it to bring it up to that 70-71 degree area. just trying to knock off those last few points, but i find that we can't get a beer above 4.2 percent!

 

[beervoid]

So the leaf material of hops (bract) does contain a small amount of starch/sugar. This could be what is responsible for the minuscule gravity pick-up after the DH.

Brew and Hops school podcast explores this phenomenon in their hop creep episode (ep8)

I"m aware of the phenomenon and listened the excellent podcast. The question is, why did it not start fermenting.
If hop creep happened the yeast should have restarterted fermentation. Though the report shows no gravity drop.

 

[beervoid]

Or they could be adding maltodextrin at the end to raise gravity. I listened to a podcast with Scott Janish the other day and he said he likes his hazy IPAs to finish around 1.020 at Sapwood Cellars, and if they finish lower he'll sometimes add maltodex at the end to get them up a bit.

This is most likely the case and would explain the raise in gravity even though the hop creep did occur.

 

[skibb]

How is that most likely the case? I would be good money they aren't adding .3 plato worth of maltodextrin into the beer. You would think they would write that down on the sheet if it occurred.

The creep didn't occur because the yeast was no longer active. Hop enzymes would break down existing starches into fermentable sugars - you would not see an increase in gravity because of this. You would only see a decrease if the yeast start to ferment it.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

How is that most likely the case? I would be good money they aren't adding .3 plato worth of maltodextrin into the beer. You would think they would write that down on the sheet if it occurred.

The creep didn't occur because the yeast was no longer active. Hop enzymes would break down existing starches into fermentable sugars - you would not see an increase in gravity because of this. You would only see a decrease if the yeast start to ferment it.

Is that a lot? 1 plato is 4 gravity points right? So they're increasing what, 1.5 gravity points? 1.016 to 1.018. I'd never heard of it until Janish mentioned it on the brulosophy podcast, but they're cranking out some great beers at Sapwood and if they're doing it I'm sure some others are. Just a theory though

 

[couchsending]

They’re definitely not adding maltodextrin to a beer that already has lactose and they want it to finish at 3 plato... that’s just common sense

 

[beervoid]

How is that most likely the case? I would be good money they aren't adding .3 plato worth of maltodextrin into the beer. You would think they would write that down on the sheet if it occurred.

The creep didn't occur because the yeast was no longer active. Hop enzymes would break down existing starches into fermentable sugars - you would not see an increase in gravity because of this. You would only see a decrease if the yeast start to ferment it.

I have to agree with you thats introducing maltodextrins seems silly and unlikely but there should still be plenty of yeast in suspension the day they introduce the dry hops.

It seems they did anticipate on it to happen or this batch just fermented out less then usual.

Perhaps the hop creep didnt happen as it doesnt always occur with some hops.
The raise on fg is perhaps purely from hop particles and oils in suspension.

 

[abrewer12345]

final product of my first attempt. sabro was a nice touch, body was nice too. a little darker than i pictured but tasted great and was a hit to all consumers. going to give this another whirl in a few batches.

 

[sicktght311]

My attempt came out great as well. Perfect body and rich'ness. Had a heavy bubblegummy ester at the beginning but was probably just suspended yeast. As it conditioned it smoothed out. Candied tropical flavors with tangerine, papaya, and a hint of lime. Citra and Cashmere, with Warrior for bittering.

 

[BeerFst]

Anyone have any idea what the new high density hop charge is in their Citra and mosaic beers?

I recall when they first announced it they mentioned it was a Haas product, but haven’t really seen anything else since. Around the same time Haas had released some resin products, or perhaps this is just steam distilled oils?

Edit: this is the product I was referring to
https://www.johnihaas.com/incognito/

 

[sicktght311]

Was just about to mention Incognito. Just another way of getting the same result i'm sure

 

[BeerFst]

Was just about to mention Incognito. Just another way of getting the same result i'm sure

They might be using less t90 but I think they are getting overall better aroma as compared to their non HDHC beers.

The testimonial from new Belgium is super interesting. They make this combo of t90 and incognito to make something they call liquid perfection. It’s used in voodoo ranger.

Since YVH is in collab with Haas now I reached out to see if they plan to sell it at the homebrew level, we’ll see how they respond

 

[TBryerton]

Anyone have any idea what the new high density hop charge is in their Citra and mosaic beers?

I recall when they first announced it they mentioned it was a Haas product, but haven’t really seen anything else since. Around the same time Haas had released some resin products, or perhaps this is just steam distilled oils?

Edit: this is the product I was referring to
https://www.johnihaas.com/incognito/

I was told something to do with Cannabis. Interesting that Haas has a grow permit.

https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/b...cle_1ab84742-1143-11e9-9acb-6f6ae1aac487.html

 

[BeerFst]

I was told something to do with Cannabis. Interesting that Haas has a grow permit.

https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/b...cle_1ab84742-1143-11e9-9acb-6f6ae1aac487.html

I don't quite follow..I was referring to beers made by Other Half with their "HDHC (high density hop charge)" they have done these with primarily their citra and mosaic beers, for instance More Citra than All Citra. so i dont follow what it has to do with weed.

That said i could totally see them possibly extending that technology into the cannabis field and recently read a thing about some NA cannabis beers, though i dont recall the brewery.

YVH hasn't responded to me about incognito.