Osmanthus/guihua in a saison (and other questions)

[FatDragon]

I know I posted a couple threads about having a CDA up next just a couple days ago, but sweet osmanthus (桂花 - guìhu&#257 is blooming here in Wuhan and it would make for a wicked saison, plus it'll soon be too cool to brew a saison without heating for the fermentation chamber, which I don't yet have, so the CDA is going to wait a bit longer.

I asked a pro brewer in Beijing about using osmanthus and he suggested 5-10 grams for a 10 gallon batch. It's really fragrant stuff, to be sure, but that seems insanely low, as it seems like other flower adjuncts (like the Hibiscus Saison in the recipe section) are on the order of an ounce or two per five gallon batch, a massive difference.

So, does anyone here have experience with osmanthus so I could possibly get a second opinion before I embark on this brew? It's primarily for my wife, who enjoys lighter, fruitier stuff, if that helps.

Extra questions:

What should I look to for hops for this brew? I'm thinking Willamette or Hersbrucker are the best options I've got in stock, maybe EKG, but I've got a bunch of New World stuff as well - American C hops, newer stuff like El Dorado, Ahtanum, Azacca, Calypso, and some NZ Rakau.

Like the brewers in Beijing, I'm planning on using Sichuan Pepper in this brew as an extra adjunct. Any ideas on how much to use? Fresh vs. dry?

Finally, I've only got Belle Saison available for the yeast. Any suggestions on temperatures? Should I try to start it off in the low to mid 60's like any other ale and then ramp up the temperature to let it develop Saison esters, or should I be fermenting it warmer from pitch?

 

[FatDragon]

One and only bump I'm gonna do.

Belle Saison temp recommendations?

Sichuan pepper or osmanthus amount suggestions?

Thanks

 

[youreanimpulse]

No idea about your adjuncts (sounds fun, no experience), but I have some experience with Belle Saison and I've never had to worry about temp. I start at room temp (~72) and it ramps up wherever it wants and is always excellently clean. Caveat: haven't done anything particularly high gravity, but I have done a fresh hop IPA with it and it was nice and clean, really let the hops shine. Good yeast for spice/adjunct forward beers, as it doesn't seem to cover stuff up like other saison yeasts sometimes do. Also always seems to ferment almost (sometimes literally) to 1.000 for me, so keep that in mind. And very quickly. Good luck!

 

[FatDragon]

Have you (or anyone else) noticed different ester formation from different temps with Belle Saison? I'm hoping to get some telltale Saison flavors from the yeast to complement the flowers and the pepper, and if there's a better way to make that happen, I want to be doing it that way.

 

[youreanimpulse]

There's a little bit of pepper from the yeast, but I haven't really been getting many esters. Best I can say is heat it up as much as you can to try to get some. It reminds me of 3711, which is also peppery, but even less yeast contribution.

 

[FatDragon]

Brewed this Wednesday night, I ended up using about 5-6 grams of dried osmanthus (which was a lot more, by volume, than I thought) and a smidgen over 3 grams of lightly-crushed Sichuan pepper. Fermenting at about 62 for the first three days, then I'll turn off the temp chamber and let it warm up - ambient temps will probably limit that to the low 70's, if that. I'll try to remember to put some updates here as things progress, for my own notes if nobody else cares.