Opinions needed for my IPA recipe Citra/Amarillo

[mastroiani]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here, even though i've been reading all of yours for a while.

I've been brewing for the last year, but i cant get that dry, bitter and balanced IPA that we all love, so i've created this recipe looking for opinions and what should i correct.

Thank you very much!

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: S-05
Batch Size (Gallons): 13 gallons/50 liters
Est. OG: 1.061
Est. FG: 1.011
IBU: 55
Est. ABV: 6.5%
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 12 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 @ 63F
Dryhopped (# of Days & Temp): 7 @ 50F
Carbonator tank/keg (# of Days & Temp): 14 @ 34F

30 lbs. 2 Row
1.5 lb. Crystal

0.5 oz Gypsum
0.14 oz Calcium Chloride
1.5 Tablets Whirfloc

1 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) 60 min.
1.4 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) 30 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) 10 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) 5 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Whirlpool

4 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Dryhopping 7 days
2.5 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) Dryhopping 7 days

2 packets US-05

Mash at 150 for 60 minutes, sparge to boil volume

 

[KVANTAN]

Drop the crystal

 

[mastroiani]

Drop the crystal

Thanks for the reply!

No crystal at all or less crystal?

 

[theheroguy]

The crystal malt is fine I enjoy it under 5% in IPAs. Stone IPA is almost 7% crystal malt. You need 3 packs of yeast for that. Drop the 30 minute amarillo addition or move it to 10 minutes or less. 30 minute additions won't be noticeable flavorwise with all those other hops and if you need ibus just ad more at 60. I would add 2 oz of amarillo to the whirlpool if you can.

 

[mastroiani]

i will change the 30 minute addition and add hops to 60 min and amarillo in whirlpool.

Thank you!

 

[Carlscan26]

Maybe add a little carapils for head retention and some Victory or Maris Otter for some malt complexity?

 

[Jwin]

Dry is mashing low and high attenuation yeast
Crisp is water chemistry

Looks good except the crystal to me

 

[mastroiani]

Dry is mashing low and high attenuation yeast
Crisp is water chemistry

Looks good except the crystal to me

What would you do with the crystal?


I've added Carapils

30 lbs. 2 Row - 96.4%
0.5 lb. Crystal - 1.8%
0.5 lb Carapils - 1.8%

0.5 oz Gypsum
0.14 oz Calcium Chloride
1.5 Tablets Whirfloc

2 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) 60 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) 10 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) 5 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Whirlpool
2 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) Whirlpool

4 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Dryhopping 7 days
2.5 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) Dryhopping 7 days

2 packets US-05

Mash at 147/150 for 60 minutes, sparge to boil volume


Thanks for all the inputs, really good!

 

[Brewsncrabs]

I am no water chemistry expert, but I have asked some questions concerning gypsum additions in IPAs. Based on what I have been told, you may want to include more gypsum for a 13 gallon batch. Maybe post this question on the Water chemistry board.

 

[Brewsncrabs]

My bad. Didn't see your salt additions were in ounces. Brew on!

 

[brew703]

I would use Magnum or Warrior as your bittering hop. Take the 2oz of Amarillo and add that to the whirlpool.

 

[ocwo92]

I've been brewing for the last year, but i cant get that dry, bitter and balanced IPA that we all love, so i've created this recipe looking for opinions and what should i correct.

I actually brewed a very similar IPA a month ago, and it is wonderfully dry and crisp in spite of a somewhat high calcium carbonate water content and no added gypsum. I loved it so much that I brewed another, larger batch on Friday.

It was my first experiment with rye malt (about 15% rye malt and 85% two-row pale malt). Opinions on rye may vary but it adds a certain crispness.

 

[mastroiani]

I will try to find Magnum or Warrior hops, but since im in Uruguay isnt that easy. Now i only have Citra, Cascade and Amarillo, but ill try to get more varieties.

Thanks!

 

[Jwin]

I will try to find Magnum or Warrior hops, but since im in Uruguay isnt that easy. Now i only have Citra, Cascade and Amarillo, but ill try to get more varieties.

Thanks!

Magnum and warrior are great all around bittering hops so grab a # and keep them frozen. Or try some ctz.
Check nikobrew.com
I think they ship world wide.

 

[mastroiani]

What about Columbus for bittering? I've read its a good option if i cant find Mangum or warrior.

Here i can get Nugget, Sladek, Mt Hood, Columbus, Perle, Cascade, Golding, Chinook, Amarillo, Citra, Fuggle, Saaz and Victoria Secret.

Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

What about Columbus for bittering? I've read its a good option if i cant find Mangum or warrior.

Here i can get Nugget, Sladek, Mt Hood, Columbus, Perle, Cascade, Golding, Chinook, Amarillo, Citra, Fuggle, Saaz and Victoria Secret.

Thanks!

Yes, Columbus is a great bittering hop.

Adding gypsum is a good move. What is the water you are using underneath? Distilled water? The reason I ask is that you want to have a mash pH of 5.3-5.4 and with that grainbill you probably need some phosphoric or lactic acid.

I don't use carapils but it's ok if you want to use it. I just would rather use some wheat malt for head retention instead of a crystal dextrin malt. It's ok either way.

 

[mastroiani]

Im using filtered tap water, with an active carbon filtering.

Ive never changed my water PH until now, my mash PH is around 6.2 so for the next brew i will lower it down to 5.2/5.4.

I have citric acid for lowering ph and bicarbonate to take it up.

What do you think about 0.15 oz Calcium Chloride? Is that noticeable in a 13 gallons batch?

Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

Im using filtered tap water, with an active carbon filtering.

Ive never changed my water PH until now, my mash PH is around 6.2 so for the next brew i will lower it down to 5.2/5.4.

I have citric acid for lowering ph and bicarbonate to take it up.

What do you think about 0.15 oz Calcium Chloride? Is that noticeable in a 13 gallons batch?

Thanks!

You won't need any bicarbonate- you will need acid. Citric acid will work, but it may have a flavor impact in large amounts. Can you do something to reduce the bicarbonate in your tap water before using it? Say, preboiling to precipitate out the bicarbonate or lime softening, if the bicarbonate from the tap water is what is causing the very high mash pH.

Then you wouldn't have to add so much citric acid to lower the mash pH.

Do you know your beginning tap water chemistry? That would be very helpful in predicting mash pH.

 

[mastroiani]

I will try boiling my water first because i dont know the water chemistry, ive found a study from some years ago and not many data in there.

Im still adjusting my recipe, i will post it here before i brew this beer.

Thanks to all for the help!

 

[ong]

I'm not sure you'll taste much Amarillo under all that Citra. Dunno if that's a problem or not -- I just find Citra to be pretty potent stuff, and it tends to take over (which is fine by me).

 

[mastroiani]

@ong I really love Citra and in my previous brews the combo with Amarillo was great, i dont know if it was because of the hop %, but i had better results when i add more Citra than Amarillo than Amarillo over Citra.

@Yooper For the water i could try half filtered tap water and half destiled. What do you think?

 

[Jwin]

Amarillo plays well as a background hop as late addition to bigger citra.
I just tapped a pale wheat with Amarillo, soraci ace and motueka. All 20minutes->flameout. The soraci is way up front. It would be bad and one dimensional without the Amarillo, but I'm very pleased with it as it.

 

[JordanKnudson]

Im using filtered tap water, with an active carbon filtering.

Ive never changed my water PH until now, my mash PH is around 6.2 so for the next brew i will lower it down to 5.2/5.4.

I have citric acid for lowering ph and bicarbonate to take it up.

What do you think about 0.15 oz Calcium Chloride? Is that noticeable in a 13 gallons batch?

Thanks!

I think this might be a big part of your issue. pH plays a big role in the final beer, and if your pH during the mash is this high, it is likely off-target post-fermentation as well. I'd definitely shoot for that 5.2-5.4 area and see what you get from that batch.

And, just to jump on the bandwagon, less crystal malt!

 

[grassfeeder]

I second your mash ph. My IPA's have been remarkably better since working to get my ph in the 5.2-5.3 range.

 

[Yooper]

@Yooper For the water i could try half filtered tap water and half destiled. What do you think?

I don't know. It really depends on what is in your tap water. In the US, we can send a sample to Ward Lab for $25 and get a report that tells us all that we need. I don't know if you can do that where you are, but knowing the calcium, magnesium, chloride, sulfate, sodium, and alkalinity is what you need. Without that, you're just guessing.

Since beer is 90% water, this really is important.

 

[Singletrack]

Since beer is 90% water, this really is important.

And since humans are 90% water, BEER really is important!

 

[mastroiani]

Amazing tips!

I dont know if i can send the water here to test it but i will look into that.

I will try preboiling the water, and then try to get the mash between 5.2 and 5.4 PH, less crystal and an amarillo late hop addition.


So far my recipe looks like this:

30.4 lbs. 2 Row - 97.5%
0.22 lb. Crystal - 0.7%
0.5 lb Carapils - 1.8%

0.5 oz Gypsum
0.15 oz Calcium Chloride
1.5 Tablets Whirfloc

1.2 oz. Columbus (14% AA) 60 min.
1.75 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) 10 min.
1.4 oz.Amarillo (7.7% AA) 7 min.
2.0 Citra (13.6% AA) 5 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Whirlpool
2 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) Whirlpool

4 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Dryhopping 7 days
2.5 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) Dryhopping 7 days

3 packets US-05

Mash at 147/150 for 60 minutes, sparge to boil volume

Efficency - 70%
Est. OG - 1.060
IBUs - 53.5
Color - 8.9
Est. ABV - 6.5%

 

[crusader1612]

Amazing tips!

I dont know if i can send the water here to test it but i will look into that.

I will try preboiling the water, and then try to get the mash between 5.2 and 5.4 PH, less crystal and an amarillo late hop addition.


So far my recipe looks like this:

30.4 lbs. 2 Row - 97.5%
0.22 lb. Crystal - 0.7%
0.5 lb Carapils - 1.8%

0.5 oz Gypsum
0.15 oz Calcium Chloride
1.5 Tablets Whirfloc

1.2 oz. Columbus (14% AA) 60 min.
1.75 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) 10 min.
1.4 oz.Amarillo (7.7% AA) 7 min.
2.0 Citra (13.6% AA) 5 min.
2.5 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Whirlpool
2 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) Whirlpool

4 oz. Citra (13.6% AA) Dryhopping 7 days
2.5 oz. Amarillo (7.7% AA) Dryhopping 7 days

3 packets US-05

Mash at 147/150 for 60 minutes, sparge to boil volume

Efficency - 70%
Est. OG - 1.060
IBUs - 53.5
Color - 8.9
Est. ABV - 6.5%

Can I offer another suggestion?
Replace you 10 Min 1.75oz Addition of Citra - With maybe Cascade (Centennial is another good option.). A different addition here, can really add another layer of flavour into your beer... Just a thought.
I'd also even up you Amarillo to Citra additions. 1:1 is always tasty.

 

[mastroiani]

Done!

How much difference in flavour intensity does 15 min, 10 min and 5 min have?

 

[Yooper]

Done!

How much difference in flavour intensity does 15 min, 10 min and 5 min have?

Not as much as many think, at least between 15 minutes and 10 minutes.

One other thing I'd thought I'd mention- I'd be hesitant to add gypsum or calcium chloride to your water without knowing what you already have in there. You may have none or you may have a lot. Without knowing that information, adding more could be a disaster, or perhaps something beneficial.

If you think about it like this- if you make soup and ask me if it needs salt, how can I answer without knowing how much salt you already put in there and without tasting it? It's the same way with brewing water. Without knowing how much sulfate or chloride you have in there, you could have too little or far too much. It'd just be a wild guess.

 

[marc1]

Try all distilled water and build back from there with additions. if you do that and it works well, you can maybe start cutting it with tap water to see how it performs.

 

[mastroiani]

I've found the composition for a bottled water i can buy here, i dont know much about water profiles so tell me what you think about the numbers

I've tested the PH with a strip and it shows that is around 6.2

Dry residue - 137 ppm
Alkalinity… 111 ppm
Ca - 35 ppm
Mg - 9,5 ppm
Na - 6,8 ppm
K - 0,7 ppm
Cl - 6,99 ppm
NO3 - 2,5 ppm
SO4 - 2,5 ppm

let me know what you think

 

[mastroiani]

Im not sure if this is ok, but i entered the water profile in an online water profile calculator and the result with that water is that i have to add 0.4 oz of Gypsum, 0.14 oz of Calcium Chloride and 0.2 oz of MgSO4 (Epsom Salt)

Is this right?

Thanks!

 

[crusader1612]

Im not sure if this is ok, but i entered the water profile in an online water profile calculator and the result with that water is that i have to add 0.4 oz of Gypsum, 0.14 oz of Calcium Chloride and 0.2 oz of MgSO4 (Epsom Salt)

Is this right?

Thanks!

Have you got a link to that?

 

[mastroiani]

Yes of course, the link is http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

 

[mastroiani]

Folks, just the last question...

When do i have to add each salt?

Gypsum, Calcium Chloride and MgSO4 all in the mash?

Thanks!

 

[JordanKnudson]

Folks, just the last question...

When do i have to add each salt?

Gypsum, Calcium Chloride and MgSO4 all in the mash?

Thanks!

If your goal with the salts is to adjust mash pH, then yes, add them to the mash. Some folks will tell you to add them directly to the mash (to make sure it all actually get into the mash), others will tell you to add them to your strike water (to ensure even dispersal). Either way you do it, you want to make sure your salts are going in at the beginning of the mash.

Kettle additions are for mineral flavor profile. Obviously, at that point, your mash is already done.

One thing...I don't typically use Epsom Salt [MgSO4] in my beers unless it is for a very specific purpose. According to Gordon Strong, it promotes a sour flavor when used above a fairly low threshold (every beer I've used it in has been lousy, but I can't say definitively that it was just the salt). You can definitely get by with just gypsum or calcium chloride, or a combination of the two.

 

[mastroiani]

I was planning to add citric acid to lower the PH, and gypsum and calcium chloride for flavour. I was only thinking of using the epsom salt just because the water profile i got from that calculator.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I was planning to add citric acid to lower the PH, and gypsum and calcium chloride for flavour. I was only thinking of using the epsom salt just because the water profile i got from that calculator.

Ah, I see. Then add your salts to the kettle.

I would start with just gypsum and calcium chloride and see what they do for you. I don't like to add salts "just because." Try to have a reason for anything that you are putting in your beer, and remember that overdoing the salt additions can leave your beer tasting like alka-seltzer.

To that end, I would think about the balance of gypsum and calcium chloride that you want and what you're trying to get out of them. Gypsum tends to bring out hop bitterness and lend itself to a crisp beer; calcium chloride accentuates the perception of soft malt. If you aren't sure which way to go, try adding both in a 1:1 ratio and limiting the total to no more than 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons.

EDIT: added the qualification "per 5 gallons," because I just remembered that I think you are making a larger batch size.

 

[mastroiani]

Ah, I see. Then add your salts to the kettle.

I would start with just gypsum and calcium chloride and see what they do for you. I don't like to add salts "just because." Try to have a reason for anything that you are putting in your beer, and remember that overdoing the salt additions can leave your beer tasting like alka-seltzer.

To that end, I would think about the balance of gypsum and calcium chloride that you want and what you're trying to get out of them. Gypsum tends to bring out hop bitterness and lend itself to a crisp beer; calcium chloride accentuates the perception of soft malt. If you aren't sure which way to go, try adding both in a 1:1 ratio and limiting the total to no more than 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons.

EDIT: added the qualification "per 5 gallons," because I just remembered that I think you are making a larger batch size.

I was thinking of 2.5 tbsp of gypsum and 1 calcium chloride, in order to accentuate the hop bitternes but with a subtle perception of maltyness

I dont know much about the water chemistry, everything i planned to do was because of reading threads in this forum and the water chem calculator.

I'll let you know how this turn out thanks to all!