On the fence about making CFC

[daveooph131]

I want to build a counterflow chiller simply because personally building your brewery is fun. However, I can only seem to source 20 feet of copper at HD for $37 bucks or I can buy in 10ft segments, but I don't want to soder.

I'm on the fence about buying the CFC chiller from Austin Homebrew v.s. making one. Is 20ft of copper enough to efficiently cool the wort (I live in Dallas)? The one I can buy is 25ft.

Also, are there good directions on here for making a CFC without sodering? I don't want to soder. I did find one article online where a guy used PVC pipe to connect the copper, but I would much rather have all metal parts.

Appreciate the help. If you talk me off the fence into building this I will likely get started tomorrow

 

[sketerbuck]

If your not comfortable soldering then I would stick with buying one. BTW they have an epoxy you can buy to that works on copper tubing.

 

[daveooph131]

With the epoxy can you use that instead of soldering?

 

[Smashing]

Why don't u want to solder? It's super easy and requires very little investment

 

[b-boy]

Yes, but soldering isn't too bad. Once you sweat a few joints it's pretty easy.

Amazon.com: Copper-Bond Epoxy Adhesive: Home Improvement

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

I recommend this It works great and designed for potable water and is good for 250 degrees.
We have gone to this method because it is so much faster and cleaner than solder.

 

[daveooph131]

I recommend this It works great and designed for potable water and is good for 250 degrees.
We have gone to this method because it is so much faster and cleaner than solder.

That looks great. Thanks. So my only question remaining now is will a 20ft copper CFC be big enough to cool 5g of wort? I don't want to go to small especially living in a hot climate.

 

[Cacaman]

I just made one last week! Bought 50' of copper tubing for $40 at the local plumbing shop. 25' at Lowes was like $50! I'm probably going to make a pre chiller with my leftover 25'.

If you wanted something economical, you could look at this:
Soft Copper Tubing 3/8" x 25' Tube de cobre ouen cuivre | eBay

Or PM me, I may be able to make you one.

 

[lumpher]

So my only question remaining now is will a 20ft copper CFC be big enough to cool 5g of wort? I don't want to go to small especially living in a hot climate.

No. I live right down the road in Arlington. I have a 50' 1/2" immersion chiller, and wouldn't have less.

 

[Flomaster]

That looks great. Thanks. So my only question remaining now is will a 20ft copper CFC be big enough to cool 5g of wort? I don't want to go to small especially living in a hot climate.

you can only cool down to your tap water which for me in Tyler this summer was 80°F. I use a cfc with 20ft of 3/8" Cooper. If building another one I'd use 1/2" Cooper.

I now have a pond pump I bought at ace hardware for about $25. I use the cfc until I get down to 85ish then I hook up the pond pump that is submerged in ice water and recirculate it.

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

 

[Cacaman]

Flomaster, do you have a pick or thread on that setup? I'm from further south Texas, and I'm looking for something to supplement my CFC. I'm thinking of building a pre chiller, but your setup may be a better option for me.

 

[Flomaster]

Flomaster, do you have a pick or thread on that setup? I'm from further south Texas, and I'm looking for something to supplement my CFC. I'm thinking of building a pre chiller, but your setup may be a better option for me.

The pond pump doubles as my keg/carboy washer.

Basically I have my hose hooked up to the cfc and my chugger pump pumps the wort through the cfc with the hose water until I reach 80f or so.

I then unhook my hose from the cfc and hook up the submerged in ice water pond pump to the cfc. The pond pump odds pumping ice cold water through the cfc and back into the cooler.

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

 

[Cacaman]

Interesting. You think this is more efficient than a pre chiller in ice water? I've seen these pumps on amazon for cheap.

 

[purplehaze]

I used 20' of copper myself due to cost and availability. My CFC works great here in Mass, then again your water is probably a lot higher in temp.

I would use the CFC to bring the wort down close to whatever your water temp is then use an ice bath to bring it down to pitching temps.

 

[Flomaster]

Interesting. You think this is more efficient than a pre chiller in ice water? I've seen these pumps on amazon for cheap.

I know so. Taking 80f water into I pre chiller is not as good as using ice cold water.

Here is my cold break from last weekends brew session.



-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

 

[Cacaman]

Very nice. I'll look into building a system similar to yours. More or less, how long does it take you to chill to pitching temp? I can probably use my leftover 25' of copper to build another CFC and sell it, and switch to a system like yours.

 

[Flomaster]

Very nice. I'll look into building a system similar to yours. More or less, how long does it take you to chill to pitching temp? I can probably use my leftover 25' of copper to build another CFC and sell it, and switch to a system like yours.

I whirlpool back into my boil kettle so it takes longer than just chilling into the carboy. I'd say 15 minutes, but i've never timed it.

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

 

[Cacaman]

I whirlpool back into my boil kettle so it takes longer than just chilling into the carboy. I'd say 15 minutes, but i've never timed it.

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

Not bad! I'll look into your method a little bit more. Any pointers or equipment needed would be appreciated.

 

[daveooph131]

Elliot's hardware in Plano, TX --- Just called and they have 60ft of copper 1/2'' OD but they will cut it to the length you need. See ya budzzzz. I'm going there today to start my setup.

What modifications will I need to make though if I use the 1/2''OD copper instead of 3/8''?

Also, as previously mentioned, since I live in Dallas should I make my CFC 30 ft instead of the standard 25'?

 

[Flomaster]

Elliot's hardware in Plano, TX --- Just called and they have 60ft of copper 1/2'' OD but they will cut it to the length you need. See ya budzzzz. I'm going there today to start my setup.

What modifications will I need to make though if I use the 1/2''OD copper instead of 3/8''?

Also, as previously mentioned, since I live in Dallas should I make my CFC 30 ft instead of the standard 25'?

You want 3/4" hose and I'd think 20-30ft would be good

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

 

[daveooph131]

You want 3/4" hose and I'd think 20-30ft would be good

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

I'm not the best at DIY projects...So basically a 3/4'' garden hose and barbs, and I assume the other fittings are the same as when you would use the standard 3/8'' OD Copper?

Also, I was musing about this project and would like to omit a pre-chiller for those hot TX summer days. I have a theory that may work. If I was able to coil the CFC around my corny keg it will end up fitting in one of my old ale-pale buckets. If I took off the spigot on the ale-pale and hooked it up with fittings (ball valve ect) similar to my mash tun in theory I'm thinking I could have the CFC sit inside the ale-pale (on days the ground water is in the 80's) and connect to the ball valve where the hose water would come in through. If this works I will fill the ale-pale with ice water and start the process. With the CFC being mostly emerged in ice water I would think this would bring the wort down to pitching temps in one pass without recirculation. What do you think?

 

[Flomaster]

Most garden hoses are 5/8" so make sure to find a 3/4" hose if you plan on using 1/2" Copper


I don't think having the cfc submerged in an ice bath is going to help very much. The garden hose is thick rubber and doesn't conduct temperature like metal does.

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

 

[daveooph131]

Ok, I'm about to go out and grab all the parts. Thanks for your help. Seriously last question. Here is the parts lists from "Cheyco's" thread on building this without soldering. Help me make sure I get the right fittings since I will be subbing the 3/8'' copper for 1/2" copper.

25' 5/8" garden hose
25' 3/8"OD copper tubing
2- 1/2" NPT female brass tees
2- 3/8"compression x 1/2"male NPT fittings
4- 5/8"hose barb x 1/2" male NPT fittings
4- 5/8" Hose clamps

Tools:
Teflon tape
25/64" drill (you can use 3/8" but that extra 1/64" makes putting it together much easier)
Knuckle-busters (wrenches for the fittings)

So I need to sub:

3/4'' on garden hose, barbs, and clamps. What about the compression fittings / NPT?

 

[Flomaster]

Ok, I'm about to go out and grab all the parts. Thanks for your help. Seriously last question. Here is the parts lists from "Cheyco's" thread on building this without soldering. Help me make sure I get the right fittings since I will be subbing the 3/8'' copper for 1/2" copper.

25' 5/8" garden hose
25' 3/8"OD copper tubing
2- 1/2" NPT female brass tees
2- 3/8"compression x 1/2"male NPT fittings
4- 5/8"hose barb x 1/2" male NPT fittings
4- 5/8" Hose clamps

Tools:
Teflon tape
25/64" drill (you can use 3/8" but that extra 1/64" makes putting it together much easier)
Knuckle-busters (wrenches for the fittings)

So I need to sub:

3/4'' on garden hose, barbs, and clamps. What about the compression fittings / NPT?

I'd use or try and build it with the following
25' 3/4" garden hose
25' 1/2"OD copper tubing
2- 3/4" NPT female brass tees
2- 1/2"compression x 3/4"male NPT fittings
4- 3/4"hose barb fittings
4- 3/4" Hose clamps.

You are really going to need build it in the store to see how it's going to work.

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

Edit: now I want to build another cfc out of 1/2" copper

 

[Markd27]

I think most people achieve temperature equalization with 25' of 3/8" in a CFC. I can't see what 1/2" is going to buy you unless you need more flow. It will be more expensive and quite a bit harder to work with.

 

[daveooph131]

I think most people achieve temperature equalization with 25' of 3/8" in a CFC. I can't see what 1/2" is going to buy you unless you need more flow. It will be more expensive and quite a bit harder to work with.

The reason I was going with 1/2'' is because I can pick it up today at my local hardware store. They will cut it too your needs so I can easily get 25'.

Problem with 3/8'' is it only comes in 20ft everywhere unless I want to buy it online. I don't really want to buy it online because at that point I might as well just buy the pre-made chiller from Austin Homebrew.

 

[Flomaster]

I think most people achieve temperature equalization with 25' of 3/8" in a CFC. I can't see what 1/2" is going to buy you unless you need more flow. It will be more expensive and quite a bit harder to work with.

There in lies my problem had I known whirlpooling with 3/8" would be as crappy as it is I would have gone with 1/2" from the get go

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

Edit... Roll your copper out straight add you can and then slide the hose over it. Then wrap it around the corny keg. I tried stuffing the copper through the already coiled up hose and it was a terrible idea

 

[Markd27]

The reason I was going with 1/2'' is because I can pick it up today at my local hardware store. They will cut it too your needs so I can easily get 25'.

Problem with 3/8'' is it only comes in 20ft everywhere unless I want to buy it online. I don't really want to buy it online because at that point I might as well just buy the pre-made chiller from Austin Homebrew.

I see. I had the same problem so I decided to buy 50' of 3/8" copper and the 50' high temp hose from HD. With this I built two and sold one of them. Brought my cost to about $50 for the one I kept, and an hour or so of my time. I think the one from AHS will run you about $95 after tax and shipping and looks like it uses garden hose vs high temp hose.

 

[daveooph131]

I see. I had the same problem so I decided to buy 50' of 3/8" copper and the 50' high temp hose from HD. With this I built two and sold one of them. Brought my cost to about $50 for the one I kept, and an hour or so of my time. I think the one from AHS will run you about $95 after tax and shipping and looks like it uses garden hose vs high temp hose.

Yes I wondered about the high temp hose. How important is that? My local HD only sells the 3/8'' copper in 10ft and 20ft, so they aren't a viable option.

 

[daveooph131]

Quick question only find hose that is 5/8. The copper says 3/8 with of 1/2 will this work in a 5/8 garden hose or is there not enough room to efficiently cool?

 

[Flomaster]

you want more room if using 1/2" copper

Home Depot or Lowes should have 3/4" hoses.

-=Jason=-

 

[sketerbuck]

you can only cool down to your tap water which for me in Tyler this summer was 80°F. I use a cfc with 20ft of 3/8" Cooper. If building another one I'd use 1/2" Cooper.

I now have a pond pump I bought at ace hardware for about $25. I use the cfc until I get down to 85ish then I hook up the pond pump that is submerged in ice water and recirculate it.

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

I do the same method and it works well. I also whirlpool in the kettle with a pump.

 

[daveooph131]

Got everything good to go

 

[Flomaster]

Got everything good to go

Pics?

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk

 

[daveooph131]

Still working on it. I'll try to post once I finish

 

[Flomaster]

Pics?

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk