oldest yeast for a successful batch

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kappclark

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I know yeast is not immortal, but just curious what the oldest sample folks have used for a starter to make a batch of a reasonable (1040-1050) sized beer ..

Does it all come out in the starter ? IOW, say you have a sample which has say 40% viable yeast -- is it even worth doing a starter ? 2 year old yeast, still in the refrigerated Mason jar ?

I guess I am asking, at what point do you say "No starter" , or do you say "Hey - I wonder what would happen if I just tried a starter ? "

Dumb question ??
 
2 year old yeast, still in the refrigerated Mason jar ?

do you say "Hey - I wonder what would happen if I just tried a starter ? "

Dumb question ??

Yes that is what I would say with this sample.
 
For a really old yeast, I would make a 'small' starter (1 to 2 pints), let it go. When activity starts to slow and sediment forms, I would pour off (and capture) the liquid with the active yeast in suspension, and toss the initial sediment.

Then treat the liquid/yeast mix as a normal starter.
 
After washed yeast has sat for a couple of months, I just toss it in with a fresh vial. Whatever survived from the older generation will be there to add a little complexity, whatever didn't is food for the new guys.
 
I will be making a stepped starter this evening of a Wyeast Pacman smackpack that was manufactured back in June for Yoopers DFH 60 minute clone that I'll be brewing up on Sunday. MrMalty calculates the viability to be about 10%. The OG of this recipe will be about 1.070. I'll be sure to update and let you know how it turns out.
 
I have used washed samples of WLP029 recently, that were washed from the very first batch of beer I brewed three years ago. You just have to coddle the yeasties a bit to wake them back up. I find a nice small 1.030 starter does this trick nicely...step it up from there.
 
I have used washed samples of WLP029 recently, that were washed from the very first batch of beer I brewed three years ago. .

Gives me encouragement. Was thinking of trashing anything more than say 1 year old...I mean, we're talking $8 for a fresh vial, not $80 !
 
If 45 million year old yeast that was preserved in amber could be grown into a starter and beer made from it, really why would you not at least try?

I've done yeast that was at least 3 years old, maybe more since it wasn't dated and it was fine. It took some babying to grow it to a useful size, but it did work.

I don't know if you know the story of Charlie Papazian's yeast (White Labs "Cry Havoc") or not. He talked about it on basic brewing. The recipes in both Papazian's books, The Complete Joy of Homebrewing and The Homebrewers Companion, were originally developed and brewed with this yeast. Papazian had "Cry Havoc" in his yeast stable since 1983.

He has used it nearly continuously since 83, sometimes pitching multiple batches on top of a cake, sometimes washing or not washing, etc. In a basic brewing podcast iirc last year he talked about how a batch of the yeast after a lot of uses picked up a wild mutation, and he noticed an off flavor in a couple batches.

Now most of us would prolly dump that yeast. Instead he washed it, slanted or jarred it (I can't recall which,)marked it, and cold stored it, and pretty much forgot about it for 10-15 years. He had plenty other slants of the yeast strain, so he left it alone.

Well evidently he came across that container of yeast, and for sh!ts and giggles made a beer with it. Evidently after all those years in storage, the wild or mutated yeast died out leaving behind a few viable cells of the "pure" culture, which he grew back into a pretty hardy strain...which iirc is the culture that White Labs actually used for their cry havoc...because of it's tenacity and survivability.

He's been using his yeast constantly for decades, in various strains.....

Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.
The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

It really to me, just goes to show once again how really hard it is to f up this beermaking, and that to give the yeast the props they deserve.
 
+1 on picking up the discounted out of date yeast packs at the LHBS.

I recently made a starter out of the dregs of a 3 year old bottle of curry amber (Wyeast Irish ale), and it took off overnight, ready to pitch in 48 hours. The Irish red it made tasted just as if I had used a fresh smack pack. These strains are amazing things, I continue to be amazed. Love them a little and they'll come right back.
 
I will be making a stepped starter this evening of a Wyeast Pacman smackpack that was manufactured back in June for Yoopers DFH 60 minute clone that I'll be brewing up on Sunday. MrMalty calculates the viability to be about 10%. The OG of this recipe will be about 1.070. I'll be sure to update and let you know how it turns out.

I made the first step of my starter last night (750ML). I pulled it out of the fridge, gave it a good smack and within 2 hours it swelled up nicely. I imagine the viability was much higher than what MrMalty calculated since the pack swelled up quite well. I'll know more once I chill, decant and step it up to 2 liters.
 
Great story about Charlie Papazian...

I confess, I did a 1.2L starter for some 3+ year old yeast (WLP550) that a friendly brewer gave me...after 3 days on the stirplate, we are seeing some action...
 
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