OK, is this sanitation procedure crazy or what?

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

A few months back I had a recurring problem with medicinal/clove like off flavor. It was so bad in some lighter beers I literally had to dump the batches. Even a couple I kept took almost 6 months to be drinkable, and even then were not good. After much investigation I discovered my problem...sanitation. Now this was a pretty good shock since my sanitation procedures are very good and I am very meticulous about my brew day.

However, the culprit in this situation was my carboy brush! I noticed after scrubbing down my carboy and letting it dry in the garage that there were little streaks of condensation where the carboy brush bristles had touched the glass. It was apparent that instead of cleaning my equipment, I was actually spreading a nasty infection by using the brush. Since that point (about 4-5 months ago), I've stopped using the brush...only PBW, Chlorine Bleach, then final no-rinse sanitizer. Now take a look at my process below. Am I nuts?

1. Rinse out fermenter and get out as much trub as possible. DON'T use a brush!
2. Fill with hot water up to the top and add a couple small scoops of PBW. Shake to mix thoroughly.
3. Let sit overnight, or even for a few days.
4. Before brew day, rinse out a couple times with clean water.
5. Refill with fully with water and chlorine bleach.
6. On brew day, rinse out thoroughly with clean water.
7. Refill carboy with with water and sanitizer mix, and cover opening with saran wrap.
8. Periodically throughout the brew day, shake the carboys to ensure coverage of sanitizer over all the glass.

For the last 7-8 brews, I have had no off flavors whatsoever...even in the VERY light 4% beers.

 

[wildwest450]

[*]Rinse out fermenter and get out as much trub as possible. DON'T use a brush!
[*]Fill with hot water up to the top and add a couple small scoops of PBW. Shake to mix thoroughly.
[*]Let sit overnight, or even for a few days.
[*]Before brew day, rinse out a couple times with clean water.
[*]Refill with fully with water and chlorine bleach.
[*]On brew day, rinse out thoroughly with clean water.
[*]Refill carboy with with water and sanitizer mix, and cover opening with saran wrap.
[*]Periodically throughout the brew day, shake the carboys to ensure coverage of sanitizer over all the glass.
[/LIST]

I do almost all of those with a few exceptions. I soak with oxy or sun clean(way cheaper than pbw).

I rinse out once during brew day.

No bleach fill, why not trust your sanitizer?

I always shake carboy at least 5 to 10 times(starsan) when beer is chilling

40+ batches and no infections.

 

[caspio]

That is pretty paranoid. But, every beer you've brewed since starting that has come out awesome. If it works....

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

I do almost all of those with a few exceptions. I soak with oxy or sun clean(way cheaper than pbw).

I rinse out once during brew day.

No bleach fill, why not trust your sanitizer?

I always shake carboy at least 5 to 10 times(starsan) when beer is chilling

40+ batches and no infections.

Well, even with no visible nasties in the carboy I would sanitize with StarSan and STILL get an infection. I guess I'm just super paranoid about it now, and would rather not gamble with 10 gallons of brew. Meh, I suppose I'll abandon the bleach at some point...probably when I get my stock up to acceptable levels.

Question: About the Oxy, does it matter if it is "fresh scent", or some other scent?

 

[Munsoned]

For the oxy: just get "Oxy Free". It has no scent. Works very well. I do the same schedule without the bleach in the middle...

 

[wildwest450]

For the oxy: just get "Oxy Free". It has no scent. Works very well. I do the same schedule without the bleach in the middle...

+1, You don't want ANY scent. I switched to Sun oxygen cleaner, it's way cheaper than Oxy, you do need to use a bit more, but it's still cheaper.

 

[ChshreCat]

I looked at the Sun, but it didn't appear to be dye and fragrance free so I kept buying Oxyclean Free instead. does it have anything in it?

 

[kornkob]

Before you assume that it is your carboy sanitizing process you might want to consider that the source of the infection is something in your post boil handling process. I've seen people (and I'm one of those people) do some pretty unsanitary stuff on brew and bottling days.

 

[winstonofbeer]

I use the brush to clean out my carboys right after i transfer the beer to the next carboy or keg. I have been soaking the carboys and kegs in oxy free for 24 hours. 90% of the time they come back cystal clear without having to use a brush.
I still rinse will hot water to be on the safe side...
On brew day, when i am about done chilling i will take the carboys and i will have a bucket full of iodphor "sp" mixed fairly strong and i will shipon 2 gal or so into the carboy....dunk my hands in the buck also, Put the palm of my hand over the top of the carboy and shake the hell out of it for 1 min or so.

Drain it out, Then as long as it takes me to dunk the hose that goes from the weldless bulkhead fitting into a bucket of sanitiser, and hook it up to my kettle i start filling the carboy. Soon as i am done with that, I grab the airlock out of the bucket of sanitiser, slap it onto the top of the carboy and put h20 in the airlock.

Done.

Havent had a infection yet.

 

[wildwest450]

I looked at the Sun, but it didn't appear to be dye and fragrance free so I kept buying Oxyclean Free instead. does it have anything in it?

It only has 2 ingredients, sodium carbonate and sodium percarbnate.

 

[CalmYourself]

I'm on a paranoid kick now too. All of my stuff is currently sitting (except for one primary) full of BWV (bleach water vinegar) and I shake it up every now and then. 1 day before brewday I'll probably replace the whole lot with fresh BWV and use my sanitizer on brewday.

My latest batch had an infection - most likely cause was that while I sanitized, I didn't clean well enough. I'm hoping the BWV soak and double rinse will help with that.

 

[northernlad]

Paying attention to your carboy brush is an excellent point THB. I have very thoroughly rnised mine since I got it. However, after many years in restaurants seeing dishes sent through the dish machine, I know that over time not scrubbed is not clean.

 

[Sawdustguy]

A few months back I had a recurring problem with medicinal/clove like off flavor. It was so bad in some lighter beers I literally had to dump the batches. Even a couple I kept took almost 6 months to be drinkable, and even then were not good. After much investigation I discovered my problem...sanitation. Now this was a pretty good shock since my sanitation procedures are very good and I am very meticulous about my brew day.

However, the culprit in this situation was my carboy brush! I noticed after scrubbing down my carboy and letting it dry in the garage that there were little streaks of condensation where the carboy brush bristles had touched the glass. It was apparent that instead of cleaning my equipment, I was actually spreading a nasty infection by using the brush. Since that point (about 4-5 months ago), I've stopped using the brush...only PBW, Chlorine Bleach, then final no-rinse sanitizer. Now take a look at my process below. Am I nuts?

1. Rinse out fermenter and get out as much trub as possible. DON'T use a brush!
2. Fill with hot water up to the top and add a couple small scoops of PBW. Shake to mix thoroughly.
3. Let sit overnight, or even for a few days.
4. Before brew day, rinse out a couple times with clean water.
5. Refill with fully with water and chlorine bleach.
6. On brew day, rinse out thoroughly with clean water.
7. Refill carboy with with water and sanitizer mix, and cover opening with saran wrap.
8. Periodically throughout the brew day, shake the carboys to ensure coverage of sanitizer over all the glass.

For the last 7-8 brews, I have had no off flavors whatsoever...even in the VERY light 4% beers.

Why is it crazy? You do what you do to prevent infections. If you are successful with your sanitization method, I think it is time well spent.

 

[JVD_X]

Well, even with no visible nasties in the carboy I would sanitize with StarSan and STILL get an infection.

It is possible that your star-san solution never made it below 3.5 PH. Did you test it?

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

It is possible that your star-san solution never made it below 3.5 PH. Did you test it?

yes, I have test strips. I usually don't even store my starsan between brew days, and mix up a new batch each time. With the infected batches, I know for a fact I mixed up a fresh batch. But again, the problem was not the sanitizing solution, but the fact that the carboys were not clean. It doesn't matter how good your sanitizer is, if the surface is not clean it will not be sanitized.

 

[JVD_X]

yes, I have test strips. I usually don't even store my starsan between brew days, and mix up a new batch each time. With the infected batches, I know for a fact I mixed up a fresh batch. But again, the problem was not the sanitizing solution, but the fact that the carboys were not clean. It doesn't matter how good your sanitizer is, if the surface is not clean it will not be sanitized.

This is true.