OG question

[triplehops]

Hello all, Happy Psalm Sunday!
I made an Irish Blonde Ale last night and it was to have a OG of 1.052 but I got 1.082. I obviously added too much sugars (I think I added too much Pilsen Malt Syrup). Questions:
#1) If I leave it be, will I just have a stronger ABV?
and
#2) Can you add more water (conversion table in Papazian book) a day after fermentation has started....
#3) What is the pro and con of an OG that is way higher than prescribed? What is the con (taste?)

 

[jonrk]

I think the main issue you will run into is the ability of your yeast to attenuate that high of an OG. The amount of yeast you pitched was also based on an OG of 1.052. You would need a lot more yeast for 1.082 in order to get down to the intended final gravity. You might end up with a higher ABV than initially intended but I think you will probably end up a with a higher FG as well.

I am not sure about adding water after the fact.

Your result should have more mouthfeel and probably won't end up in the style range that you intended but it will still be beer. I tried a batch recently where I had several screw ups. Mashed too high, under pitched the yeast etc., but the end result was still pretty good.

Hopefully, you will also get some responses from people who actually know what they are talking about as opposed to me.

 

[phuff7129]

You would have to add approx. 2.5 gallons of water to bring that gravity down to where you want it. Unless you have a very large fermenter you won't have room.

My concern is did you pitch enough yeast to ferment a 1.080 beer? If you used a dry yeast you may want to add another packet. If you used liquid you may want to add another smack pack or vial.

If you get this beer fermented out properly there is no reason to believe you won't have a great all be it strong beer

 

[triplehops]

I did a smack pack irish yeast. Its starting to ferment now (9 hrs later). I do have some room (its in a 61/2 glass carboy) but the fermentation has started....so i worry that adding water with mess something up more than i did. im a little down but i am learning with every batch!

 

[ACbrewer]

WAIT before you add some water, you left out a very important peice of information. Is this extract or all grain? did you use a Kit? Extract kits are going to come out very close to the published OG. And new brewers with extract kits are well known to get either to high or to low OGs do to improper mixing of partial boils with top off water.

 

[phuff7129]

WAIT before you add some water, you left out a very important peice of information. Is this extract or all grain? did you use a Kit? Extract kits are going to come out very close to the published OG. And new brewers with extract kits are well known to get either to high or to low OGs do to improper mixing of partial boils with top off water.

Excellent point.

 

[ACbrewer]

The long and short of it is, please post your recipe. I forgot to say that before. It helps the trouble shooting.

 

[triplehops]

extract. I got the recipe off of a kit, then went to my local guy and he crushed my grains ect...As I said, I def placed too much Malt in (called for 6lb of LME) AND I did more as each can was 3.3 lb....So I bet I did .4 extra...

SPECIALTY GRAIN
- 0.25 lbs CaraPils
- 0.125 lbs Special Roast

FERMENTABLES
- 2 lbs Wheat dry malt extract
- 6 lbs Pilsen Malt syrup

HOPS & FLAVORINGS
- 1 oz Palisade (60 min)
- 1 oz Palisade (20 min)

 

[cgg]

Rehydrate a pack of US-05, toss it in, and go with the flow. It will be out of style, but then, most of us are, too.

 

[unionrdr]

On one side of the equation,I have to agree with ACbrewer about maybe not getting wort & top off water mixed well enough to get the right hydrometer reading. That said,6lbs of malt is pretty standard for 5 gallons of beer. 2lbs more malt would drive up the OG enough to where a bit more yeast might be needed.
Or as I've done when OG's were a hair over average is to rehydrate the dry yeast. Then pitch it a a temp no higher then 10 degrees more than current wort temperature. This'll prevent the yeast from shocking at the high temp differential. Giving a healthy pitch that'll cut lag time significantly & allow it to ferment out. Like I said,I have gotten away with that when the OG wasn't too much higher than about 1.050.

 

[ACbrewer]

you have 6.6 lb of lme = 37points*6.6 plus 2lb of dme at 45points each... roughly you should get about 334 total points or 1.060 to 1.066 OG on a 5.5/5 gallon batch. you read at 1.080. You haven't stirred enough.

NOW the recommendation for more yeast is good because your OG is 1.060 or a bit more.. And it doesn't matter that the beer isn't mixed well from the start. The yeast with CO2 will mix up your beer alot during fermentation. You have not messed up your beer, and can even get it fermented as is - I've done them that high. It is just better if you had more yeast.

 

[ACbrewer]

Generally speaking a pitchable tube/pack/dry packett will do about a 1.040 to 1.045 beer without needing more yeast/starter. AT 1.060 you really need a 2nd pack of yeast and or a starter, and above 1.080 you need a starter and to consult mrmalty.com or yeastcalc.com for recomended starter sizes. And you need a vigerous aeration at the start and at 12 hours with 1.080 or higher beer.

Again, in this case, there is only enough sugar for about a 1.060 to 1.066 (depending on a 5.5 gallon fill or a 5 gallon fill). So a 2nd aeration would be inappropriate. Good stirring is critical, I've had a 1.042 show up as 1.070 because of this problem. If you use extract and don't add much more than they list, you should expect to come out where they predict.

For every extra pound of dry extract, add .9 to theOG on 5 gallons and add .7 for every pound of liquid (syrup) extract to the OG on 5 gallons. Some day I'll do an article on figuring out your sugars based on your malts, but that will probably be after the first of never. (yeah, I'm still not signed up for my procrastinators anonymous card)

 

[Calder]

As I said, I def placed too much Malt in (called for 6lb of LME) AND I did more as each can was 3.3 lb....So I bet I did .4 extra...

FERMENTABLES
- 2 lbs Wheat dry malt extract
- 6 lbs Pilsen Malt syrup

I estimate you got about 1.062.

Yes you did under-pitch, but I reckon the yeast will do it's job fine. You are just stressing the yeast more, and the main consequence would be some more flavor from the yeast. Some beers are deliberately under-pitched to get more yeast flavor.

It is too late to add more yeast now. This yeast is up and going and will do all the work.

Don't worry that all the sugars were not evenly mixed. The yeast will find them.

A note on adding water after fermentation has started. It needs to be boiled for a while to boil out any entrained oxygen, which is bad for beer after fermentation has started.

 

[Yooper]

extract. I got the recipe off of a kit, then went to my local guy and he crushed my grains ect...As I said, I def placed too much Malt in (called for 6lb of LME) AND I did more as each can was 3.3 lb....So I bet I did .4 extra...

SPECIALTY GRAIN
- 0.25 lbs CaraPils
- 0.125 lbs Special Roast

FERMENTABLES
- 2 lbs Wheat dry malt extract
- 6 lbs Pilsen Malt syrup

HOPS & FLAVORINGS
- 1 oz Palisade (60 min)
- 1 oz Palisade (20 min)

That recipe can't come out to 1.080- it just can't, unless you didn't top off with water to a full 5 gallons.

What happens is that the wort simply isn't mixed up with the top off water that much, so the reading is wrong.

 

[triplehops]

well im home and there is one hell of a storm brewing and a small blow out....tube inserted.... wasn't that all bad but it certainly is firing on all cylinders with fermentation....maybe enough yeast if its this active no?? ive learned more with this batch so far so i appreciate all your input.

 

[triplehops]

that was the recipe but i did use closer to 6.6 of pilsner malt syrup and the water to the 5 gallon mark.

 

[triplehops]

^ btw, you guys are awesome. the information and opinions are just incredible!!

 

[triplehops]

a morning update: The brew is flying and it seems like the yeast is still going strong. Bottom line is that I did not get to the store for extra yeast. Just going to see how it pans out and see where the FG ends up. Maybe I have stumbled across a nice strong ale...

 

[ACbrewer]

a morning update: The brew is flying and it seems like the yeast is still going strong. Bottom line is that I did not get to the store for extra yeast. Just going to see how it pans out and see where the FG ends up. Maybe I have stumbled across a nice strong ale...

What happens is when you don't have enough yeast there are more 'off flavors.' This is also known as stressed yeast.

I put off flavors in quotes because it depends on the style. A belgian for instance would be ok with under pitching relative to a pilsner lager. This is also a reflection of how clean tasting the beer is.

Personally I like a little stronger on the off flavors, in part because I'm not big into bitterness, and they help blend it out, but that is me. My guess is as long as you like a wide varriety of beer, and aren't too concerned about a style with this one, you will enjoy it.

 

[gibrigg]

Generally speaking a pitchable tube/pack/dry packett will do about a 1.040 to 1.045 beer without needing more yeast/starter. AT 1.060 you really need a 2nd pack of yeast and or a starter, and above 1.080 you need a starter and to consult mrmalty.com or yeastcalc.com for recomended starter sizes. And you need a vigerous aeration at the start and at 12 hours with 1.080 or higher beer.

Again, in this case, there is only enough sugar for about a 1.060 to 1.066 (depending on a 5.5 gallon fill or a 5 gallon fill). So a 2nd aeration would be inappropriate. Good stirring is critical, I've had a 1.042 show up as 1.070 because of this problem. If you use extract and don't add much more than they list, you should expect to come out where they predict.

For every extra pound of dry extract, add .9 to theOG on 5 gallons and add .7 for every pound of liquid (syrup) extract to the OG on 5 gallons. Some day I'll do an article on figuring out your sugars based on your malts, but that will probably be after the first of never. (yeah, I'm still not signed up for my procrastinators anonymous card)

I don't have a lot of experience, but I suspect ACbrewer's advice is good. Another yeast pack would be ideal. If you don't have one, I suspect the beer will turn out fine. Maybe a bit under attenuated, but tasty anyway.

 

[triplehops]

for the future: If I like this beer and it ends up being a strong ale ....but would like to get a better tasting beer (possible off tastes) should I just add two smack packs of the wyeast 1084 irish ale yeast?
Can you pitch too much yeast in a batch? and if so what happens then? (again Im learning more from this batch than any good beer ive made)

 

[ACbrewer]

for the future: If I like this beer and it ends up being a strong ale ....but would like to get a better tasting beer (possible off tastes) should I just add two smack packs of the wyeast 1084 irish ale yeast?
Can you pitch too much yeast in a batch? and if so what happens then? (again Im learning more from this batch than any good beer ive made)

I've personally not over pitched, so I can't from experience tell you. But I read and listen to pod casts. During the fermentation, the yeast produce chemicals other than ethyl alcohol. Those chemicals give the beer different flavors. In extreem, those chemical flavors are considered 'off' or unpleasing, and some of them are even in very small quantities.

Ifyou pitch enough yeast, you won't get any of these flavors at a detectable - tastable - level. Oddly enough, this too will taste odd. It will be insipid or boring. So yes you can over pitch. What makes an over pitch? I've never found the answer to that question.

Given that a 1.060 OG is recomended to go with 2 vials/smack packs/dry yeast packets, I doubt you'd over pitch by putting in 2 packs at 1.060 or higher.
Something not talked about is that 1.060 means that there is more preasure in the wort than at 1.040. This increased preasure makes it harder for the yeast to work. This is part of why a 1.060 doesn't need 2x the yeast of a 1.030. At 1.030, the yeast have an easier time passing neutriants and waste in and out of the cell than they do a 1.060. There is more to the chemistry than this, but this is part of it.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about. If you take tap water, and drink it, you expect water to taste that way. If you drink a glass left out over night, it tastes off, that is because tap water has some gas disovled in it, and it comes out while the glass sits and thus tastes off. We could argue it is more pure/clean because it just has water, but really we expect water plus some disolved gas/air. So it is with beer, we expect it to have a trace of these chemicals that in to much quantities becomes off.