Off taste in IPA

[jb1677]

Brewed a Citra IPA three weeks ago. Things went well during brewing, no mistakes that I can think of. I had a great fermentation @ 67ish degrees and all visible signs of fermentation finished in 3 days. I waited 4 more days and checked the gravity - it was right on. The beer however tasted awful, my wife and I both got a slight tart/sour taste - my initial thought was that it was infected.

I decided to keep moving forward, and dry hopped it as planned. It's now a total of 3 weeks old and I just transferred it to a keg. The taste this time was about the same as it was 2 weeks ago, the first sip has an upfront tart/tangy/sour taste that is about the same intensity as it was just after fermentation. Subsequent sips don't have the same taste but overall the flavor is not good. If I wait a bit and teste again I get hit with a tart/tangy/sour taste on first sip.

Anyone have any guesses on what's happening? If it were an infection I would assume that it would have progressed between first and second tastings but it has not. I am going to leave it in the keg uncarbonated and room temp for a few weeks and see if it gets better. Most people who have brewed the recipe say its great at 3 weeks. I clearly messed up but don't know how.

 

[GioGomez2010]

I don't know how much this will help out man, but I have a batch of finished Pale Ale that I brewed using LME. It was my last full extract batch and I get a tangy taste to it that I believe is either the "Extract Twang" they talk about, or I probably am mistaking it for some sort of hop flavor. I just bottled a Partial Mash IPA that did not have that twang that I have noticed because I used a lot less extract than I ever have. I believe that if your process was good, it could just be a flavor attributed to the hops, or extract if you used it. If you could post the ingredients you used, maybe the sanitation steps, I'm sure a more experienced brewer could probably help you pin point the problem. Good luck!

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

i just finished a mostly citra tropical IPA and find that the citra if used in extract with a partial boil gets almost sour/tart...funny cause i opened this thread just to see if you had used it since mine was similarly off. i know it greatly effects this but can anyone chime in on hop utilization and flavor compounds with partial boils with different hops they have used?

 

[jb1677]

Sanitation is good (so I think, I use starsan and I think I am doing it right). *The yeast was a double pitched S-04. *The beer has mostly cleared, though I am considering throwing the keg in the fridge to crash it. *

The recipe was as follows (partial mash):
2lbs 2 Row
1 lb Crystal Malt 60L
8oz Carafoam
8oz Melanoiden
8oz Munich Malt
5lbs Extra Light DME
1oz Citra (First Wort Hop)
1oz Citra (15 min)
1oz Citra (10 min)
1oz Citra (5 min)
1oz Citra (1 min)
3oz Citra (Dry Hop)

I missed my gravity so I ended up boiling up 1 more lb of DME to get the gravity up and adding it to the fermenter.

 

[TheFlyingSparge]

What was your sparge water temp?

 

[unionrdr]

Well,only being in primary for 7 days didn't give it time to clean up by products & settle out clear or slightly misty. Clean up & settle out happen at the same time. That gets rid of undesirable flavors/sromas & is kind of a jump start on aging. Even though you're kegging,it needs to sit for a couple weeks to ag more to let the aromas & flavors mature. That Was a lot of citra for a dry hop imo. My IPA is 4.5oz of 3 different hops in the boil,1.5oz of the 3 in a 1 wek dry hop. Gave a nice balance with plenty of hop flavor/aroma & som malt cutting through.

 

[chumpsteak]

That looks like the zombie dust clone recipe. I made that recipe and did not get any sour or tartness. Mine tastes like concentrated mango juice for the first couple of weeks in the keg and then mellowed to a very drinkable tropical IPA. Sounds like you got a bug or something. Does it have a strong alcohol taste? I recently made an IPA that I'm sure was infected (probably with wild yeast) because it tastes like feet when I put it in the keg and then started tasting more and more like alcohol as it sat.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Are you cleaning first with a good cleaner then Sanitizing with Star San? Sour/tart/tangy seems like typical infection characteristics to me, but maybe it's all that Citra? I did an IPA a while back that was predominantly Citra and I didn't like it one bit, but I don't recall any sour like flavors.

Just to be precautious I would suggest a deep cleaning or bleach bombing all your gear(just plastics) Check all tubing,racking canes, anything plastic that touches your beer Post-boil. I hope I'm wrong and it's not an infection. Good Luck

 

[jb1677]

That looks like the zombie dust clone recipe. I made that recipe and did not get any sour or tartness. Mine tastes like concentrated mango juice for the first couple of weeks in the keg and then mellowed to a very drinkable tropical IPA. Sounds like you got a bug or something. Does it have a strong alcohol taste? I recently made an IPA that I'm sure was infected (probably with wild yeast) because it tastes like feet when I put it in the keg and then started tasting more and more like alcohol as it sat.

That it is! No strong alcohol taste, the tart/tang is teh same after 3 weeks as it was after 1 week so whatever it is its not increasing.

 

[jb1677]

Are you cleaning first with a good cleaner then Sanitizing with Star San? Sour/tart/tangy seems like typical infection characteristics to me, but maybe it's all that Citra? I did an IPA a while back that was predominantly Citra and I didn't like it one bit, but I don't recall any sour like flavors.

Just to be precautious I would suggest a deep cleaning or bleach bombing all your gear(just plastics) Check all tubing,racking canes, anything plastic that touches your beer Post-boil. I hope I'm wrong and it's not an infection. Good Luck

I clean with PBW, sanitize with starsan. Cleaning/sanitizing is by far the longest part of my brew day (and transfer to keg day too!) so I think I am doing a decent job. I did brew another batch of beer after this one with some of the same gear and it tastes great.

 

[jb1677]

What was your sparge water temp?

No sparge, it was a partial mash done BIAB style

 

[jb1677]

Well,only being in primary for 7 days didn't give it time to clean up by products & settle out clear or slightly misty. Clean up & settle out happen at the same time. That gets rid of undesirable flavors/sromas & is kind of a jump start on aging. Even though you're kegging,it needs to sit for a couple weeks to ag more to let the aromas & flavors mature. That Was a lot of citra for a dry hop imo. My IPA is 4.5oz of 3 different hops in the boil,1.5oz of the 3 in a 1 wek dry hop. Gave a nice balance with plenty of hop flavor/aroma & som malt cutting through.

It was actually in primary for 3 weeks, I never transfered it to secondary, just dry hopped it in primary. In hindsight I with I would ahve just let it sit 3 weeks, then transfer to keg or secondary and dryhopped then - hindsight right?

 

[unionrdr]

Not really,no. Dry hopping in primary is fine & quite common nowadays. Must've been a typo,cauuse the 1st post said 3 days visible fermentation ,meaning bubbles. then 4 more days till checked. That'd be seven days total?....

 

[DirtyOldDuck]

There is nothing wrong with dry hopping in the primary. I have not used Citra so I cannot comment on that, but is it carbonated? I mentioned in my response to your post on Brewit that you should wait until a beer is fully carbed before judging it. It may not be the reason for the taste you are getting, but it definitely makes a difference.

EDIT: just saw your response - let it carbonate and then judge.

 

[jb1677]

Not really,no. Dry hopping in primary is fine & quite common nowadays. Must've been a typo,cauuse the 1st post said 3 days visible fermentation ,meaning bubbles. then 4 more days till checked. That'd be seven days total?....

Yep, I checked it to measure gravity and add hops on day 7, it's since been 2 more weeks and yesterday I transferred it to a keg where it sits uncarbed and room temp. It's been 3 weeks total since brew day

 

[unionrdr]

Ok,gotcha. I'm starting to think it's a lot of citra combine with malt flavors that you perhaps aren't used to. That which makes citrus tart also seems to be where the flavor comes from as well. Many percieve that as sour,when in reality it's just sweet tart sort of thing. combine d with green beer flavor,it could give what you're describing.
If the sour was like a lambic or something,then it'd be a wild yeast infection.

 

[jb1677]

Thanks everyone for the tips/info. I poured and chilled a glass, clearly still uncarbed but at least cold. It tastes like absolute crap. I can't even describe the flavor. The sour/tartness dropped off considerably after being chilled but an almost burnt taste becomes more pronounced, the sour/tart taste when warm is actually better than what I get when cold.

I think this one will end up dumped. So happy I have another brew coming along nicely to make me forget about this mess! I really wish I could figure out where I went wrong here to avoid making the same mistake again

 

[Braufessor]

It's been 3 weeks total since brew day

Seems like you are doing a lot of tasting and judging on a very highly hopped beer, that is very young. Generally, the very first time I taste my beer is when I keg or bottle it after 3 weeks in primary. I would just leave it alone for another 3 weeks or so and let it carbonate. Then, try it once a week for the next few weeks. If it is still terrible at weeks 8-12 weeks, then I would say you have a problem with it.

I could see that much Citra possibly giving some rather harsh flavors. I love citra, but usually only use it for flame out and dry hopping in conjunction with cenntennial and cascade hops. Never used it for all additions in that quantity.

 

[jb1677]

Seems like you are doing a lot of tasting and judging on a very highly hopped beer, that is very young. Generally, the very first time I taste my beer is when I keg or bottle it after 3 weeks in primary. I would just leave it alone for another 3 weeks or so and let it carbonate. Then, try it once a week for the next few weeks. If it is still terrible at weeks 8-12 weeks, then I would say you have a problem with it.

I could see that much Citra possibly giving some rather harsh flavors. I love citra, but usually only use it for flame out and dry hopping in conjunction with cenntennial and cascade hops. Never used it for all additions in that quantity.

No doubt I am going to ride it out to see but this thing tastes awful. I cant even describe the flavor, its not a taste that I can associate with any smell/taste I have ever had before. Being cold seemed to bring it out even more, when warm it was tolerable.

 

[jambafish]

http://morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors

Even while I've made beers that hit their OG and seem to clear in under a week, I continually find that transferring too soon is the cause of off flavors in my IPAs. I now always let them sit 2 weeks. Unless the beer or the space is needed, it's worth keeping CO2 out of the keg and keeping it someplace warm for a couple weeks. If it's still sour I'd personally consider either going with it as a Lambic or re-pitching an amount of yeast. I suspect, however, that simply setting the beer aside for a length of time (2 weeks+) might provide mellowing. Good luck. I look forward to seeing the solution or the direction this beer takes since I've never brewed one myself.

 

[Yooper]

There is a difference between green beer, and beer that tastes like "absolute crap". I often am drinking IPAs by week three, not leaving them in the fermenter that long, and they are great.

If it's really bad, it's got to be infected or has another major issue (like mash pH or something).

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

An IPA should be tasting good at this point. You said 'burnt' taste? What was your process for adding extract? Did you turn the flame off to add? Could some have gotten cooked to the kettle? Also, 1.5# of cara type malts is a bit much for an IPA, and Citra is a really mellow hop, flavor wise, for being high alpha, so it may not have balanced out the sweetness from the caramel malts with enough hops flavor. Just a couple ideas, my IPA's are always very good at a few weeks old.

 

[jb1677]

The DME was added after removing the kettle from the flame, poured in and constantly stirred.

Burnt may not be the right word, I really cant describe this flavor other than its not pleasant. It does not have what I would consider a green or young beer taste, its just pain bad. I will have to get the wife to taste to see if she can describe it any better.

I did not measure mash PH. I just used tap water that I had left overnight to allow any chlorine to dissapate. I used 1.5qt's per lb of grain. I mashed for 1 hour at 154.

 

[Yooper]

The DME was added after removing the kettle from the flame, poured in and constantly stirred.

Burnt may not be the right word, I really cant describe this flavor other than its not pleasant. It does not have what I would consider a green or young beer taste, its just pain bad. I will have to get the wife to taste to see if she can describe it any better.

I did not measure mash PH. I just used tap water that I had left overnight to allow any chlorine to dissapate. I used 1.5qt's per lb of grain. I mashed for 1 hour at 154.

Instead of "burnt", how about like cloves or even band-aids?

I've had some beers where the yeast was stressed (one time, fermentation got up to 78 degrees) and the resulting flavor was "phenolic". It can also come from infection.

 

[CidCitrus]

I had a sour/tart taste in all of my extract beers before I went all grain. It wasn't horrible, but it was present in every brew, from IPAs to Stouts. I never completely figured it out, but I believe it to be my water chemistry clashing with the extract. Since I never brewed extract with RO or distilled water I never eliminated that as a possible cause. Is this the first time you're experiencing this?

 

[jb1677]

Yes, first time experiencing this but only have 3 beers under my belt.

Wife and I tasted it again, neither of us can describe what's going on in this thing. The tart/sourness is not like anything we can think of, nothing like hop bitterness, not like fruit or citrus peels, not like vinegar, not like a true sour beer. I have read the "off flavor" references and we can't associate it with any of those. It's a new to both of us taste.

I pulled the dispensing line, going to leave it in fridge for a week or two to try and drop any remaining sediment out of it.

So glad I have another finishing up now that tasted better when I checked it's FG, help keep my spirits up!