Off Flavor in IPAs

[Redhawk96]

Just went on to post about the same issue, then found this thread. I made an APA a couple of months ago with the same issue. Used filtered tap water, which has been fine for 50+ batches. It is the same filtered tap water used by a local brewery, and they tell me they do not make any adjustments, they will just not brew occasionally when they don't like that days water profile, which is rare. It was the first batch crushing my own grain, that could be the issue. I also lowered the amount of specialty malts compared to past batches, and added corn sugar to dry it out and accentuate the hops. I have it on tap right next to a previous APA that tastes great, brewed two months prior.

Both beers fermented with US05 in a 62 degree basement, beer temp never gets above 68, 10 gal. batches, Primary for 3 weeks, then keg.

Here is the list of differences:

Good APA
Mash at 152
SG = 1.050
FG = 1.013
80% 2-row
9% Vienna
4% Carapils
3.3% C20
3.3% Honey Malt
0.75 oz. Columbus FWH
no 60 min. addition
4 oz. @ 20 min Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe/Columbus
4 oz. 20 min hopstand Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe/Columbus



Medicinal (Bad) APA
Mash at 149
SG = 1.050
FG = 1.008
81% 2 row
9.5% Vienna
4.8% Carapils
2.4% Honey Malt
2.4% corn sugar
0.5 oz. Magnum @ 60 min
4 oz. @ 20 min Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe
4 oz. 20 min hopstand Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe

I just got a new grain mill for the second batch used it for the first time, set @0.37. The old crush was at the LHBS, unknown diameter. I did adjust my efficiency upward (guessed) and hit the target OG. My new crush added about 7-8% to the mash efficiency.

Maybe it is just the hops. The bad batch was from a new batch, all were purchased in one pound bags, and not opened until brew day. The good batch was from hops stored in opened bags, vacuum sealed in the freezer for storage.

Maybe the lower mash temp and lowering the specialty grains caused high mash pH (which I don't measure, unfortunately)?

I am at complete loss. This is the first off flavor I have not been able to pinpoint, and it is very frustrating.

Any additional info or observations would be appreciated.

 

[chickypad]

Not to sound like a broken record but - I would also suggest you look at your water. As Yooper pointed out there can be seasonal variations in water treatments (and seems confirmed by your local brewery). Filtering will not remove chloramine and if medicinal is your description I would suspect that first. I assume you did not use campden for this batch? I really think you should also consider following pH, and I don't mean the pH strips (way back when I tried some that were supposed to be higher quality, they read 5.0 to 5.2 no matter what I did with the water or grainbill). If you don't want to get a meter and get into water I would at the least start with RO and do mineral additions listed in the water primer.

 

[Redhawk96]

I have read up on some other posts, and I believe chloramines is probably the cause. I have never used Campden tablets, other than for cider making, but it sounds like that would be a great first step for troubleshooting this issue. Many of the Chloramine threads describe the chloramine taste as medicinal, plasticy, and band-aid, and my wife says the plasticy and band-aid flavor is what she gets.

It would make sense that chloramine levels cold be higher in municipal water in the spring when there is run-off, when the medicine-like beer was brewed.

 

[HopHeadMT]

Had the same problem, use 1/4 Camden tablet per 5 gallons in mash, also I would recommend scrubbing the heck out of your fermenters! Ever since I used the Camden tabs never had a issue!

 

[airbrett]

Just a call out from a relative newbie, but isn't it not a great idea to use distilled water to brew counter to some of the suggestions? I read in other threads that it is not great for yeast.

Perhaps using a bottled mountain spring water such as Arrowhead would be a better experiment. Along with making it a simple Smash IPA that is not racked to a secondary and not dry hopped.

 

[HopHeadMT]

Well when using RO water you are starting from a clean slate so with that in mind that's when using gypsum, calcium chloride, etc comes into play thus you don't have to worry about anything in your water that's going to effect your brew or growth of your yeast, yeast nutrient in the boil and aeration when racking to the primary definitely helps

 

[chickypad]

Just a call out from a relative newbie, but isn't it not a great idea to use distilled water to brew counter to some of the suggestions? I read in other threads that it is not great for yeast.

No you're correct, but we are talking about using RO water then adding back the necessary minerals like calcium. The point is you know what you are starting with, and also in general it's easier to add things than take them out.

edit: just realized HopHead sort of answered this already.

 

[ong]

Just went on to post about the same issue, then found this thread. I made an APA a couple of months ago with the same issue. Used filtered tap water, which has been fine for 50+ batches. It is the same filtered tap water used by a local brewery, and they tell me they do not make any adjustments, they will just not brew occasionally when they don't like that days water profile, which is rare. It was the first batch crushing my own grain, that could be the issue. I also lowered the amount of specialty malts compared to past batches, and added corn sugar to dry it out and accentuate the hops. I have it on tap right next to a previous APA that tastes great, brewed two months prior.



Both beers fermented with US05 in a 62 degree basement, beer temp never gets above 68, 10 gal. batches, Primary for 3 weeks, then keg.



Here is the list of differences:



Good APA

Mash at 152

SG = 1.050

FG = 1.013

80% 2-row

9% Vienna

4% Carapils

3.3% C20

3.3% Honey Malt

0.75 oz. Columbus FWH

no 60 min. addition

4 oz. @ 20 min Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe/Columbus

4 oz. 20 min hopstand Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe/Columbus







Medicinal (Bad) APA

Mash at 149

SG = 1.050

FG = 1.008

81% 2 row

9.5% Vienna

4.8% Carapils

2.4% Honey Malt

2.4% corn sugar

0.5 oz. Magnum @ 60 min

4 oz. @ 20 min Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe

4 oz. 20 min hopstand Amarillo/Citra/Simcoe



I just got a new grain mill for the second batch used it for the first time, set @0.37. The old crush was at the LHBS, unknown diameter. I did adjust my efficiency upward (guessed) and hit the target OG. My new crush added about 7-8% to the mash efficiency.



Maybe it is just the hops. The bad batch was from a new batch, all were purchased in one pound bags, and not opened until brew day. The good batch was from hops stored in opened bags, vacuum sealed in the freezer for storage.



Maybe the lower mash temp and lowering the specialty grains caused high mash pH (which I don't measure, unfortunately)?



I am at complete loss. This is the first off flavor I have not been able to pinpoint, and it is very frustrating.



Any additional info or observations would be appreciated.

You didn't mention what your off flavor was, that I could see. I immediately wondered about US-05 at 62 degrees -- I've given up on the Chico strains because I often get a gross (to me) sort of orange-y musty aroma and flavor from them.

 

[chickypad]

He/she named it Medicinal (Bad) APA, that's what I was going on.

 

[The_Glue]

I've given up on the Chico strains because I often get a gross (to me) sort of orange-y musty aroma and flavor from them.

When i started rehidrating them and pitching a full packet into 2.5gal batches that rotten fruity dying esther smell disappeared after a week in primary. It still returns during bottle carbing tho in the first 1-2 weeks since it gets refermented.

 

[Redhawk96]

The bad flavor is definitely medicinal or plastic-y, phenolic.

I brewed the exact same batch this past weekend, and treated all of the mash and sparge water with the proper amount of campden. It is fermenting away at 65-67 in the basement. I will repost in a few weeks when it is kegged and on tap. I am keeping the medicinal keg on one of my taps for now just for the comparison when the new batch is done.

Also, got a neighbor down the street to taste both APAs (good and bad), he is a long-time homebrewer who is in the process of opening his own brewpup, and with no input from me, he got "platic-y and phenolic" and thought that water was the most likely suspect.

 

[Chrisbrewbeers]

I have had this band aid taste one time when I had a kit and decided to try tap water rather than go out of my way to get RO. It really does taste like you are sucking on a band aid. This was my 4th batch and it caused me to get a good supply of campden tablets to keep around. I haven't had those favors since then. I knew better too, just had to see for myself I guess.

 

[TheHopfather]

Subscribed - IPA woes as well.

 

[Redhawk96]

Well I have the batch kegged and one tap that I brewed treating all of the water with Campden prior to brewing, and I believe I have found the issue.

The latest batch tastes great, no medicinal or plastic flavor at all, just hop goodness and a slight malt backbone, delicious.

I will be putting the Campden treatments into my regular brew day from now on, thanks for all of the help!

 

[jaywhy]

OP,

Did you ever solve this problem?

I've been having the same issues with my IPA's and its supremely frustrating. I've tried just about everything to nail down the source but no luck.

 

[chickypad]

OP,

Did you ever solve this problem?

I've been having the same issues with my IPA's and its supremely frustrating. I've tried just about everything to nail down the source but no luck.

Check the post above yours.

 

[jaywhy]

Check the post above yours.

He is not the OP.
Also, I'm tried campden tablets and that hasn't solved my problems.

 

[chickypad]

Ah, sorry. What is your issue, also medicinal?

 

[jaywhy]

Ah, sorry. What is your issue, also medicinal?

Yup. Same as the others posting here.
Just about the only thing I haven't tried is RO water with brewing minerals added.

 

[Chrisbrewbeers]

I would try the RO water. I suggested the campden tablets a few posts earlier and they help but since then I have used RO and I think it tastes cleaner. Just try to find a water machine and fill a carboy or two. Should be about 30 cents a gallon.

 

[jaywhy]

I would try the RO water. I suggested the campden tablets a few posts earlier and they help but since then I have used RO and I think it tastes cleaner. Just try to find a water machine and fill a carboy or two. Should be about 30 cents a gallon.

I will be trying the RO water for next brew.
What's interesting is that I tasted one of the IPA's brewed by a local brewery and I picked up a hint of the same off flavor that I've been tasting in my IPA's.
I spoke to their head Brewer and he told me that they use untreated tap water, run through a filter.
This is in S Florida.

 

[Skiffy]

Funny you mention this because you just revived this thread, and tonight I had a Funky Buddha More Moro which I dumped cause it had the same awful taste as my stupid homebrewed IPAs. No hop aroma whatsoever and that odd aftertaste. I haven't tried to nail down my issue yet, but I'm convinced its mash pH and/or hop oxidation. Do you keg or bottle? It's my opinion that the act of bottling in an open system is too much oxygen exposure for an extremely hoppy beer.

 

[jaywhy]

Funny you mention this because you just revived this thread, and tonight I had a Funky Buddha More Moro which I dumped cause it had the same awful taste as my stupid homebrewed IPAs. No hop aroma whatsoever and that odd aftertaste. I haven't tried to nail down my issue yet, but I'm convinced its mash pH and/or hop oxidation. Do you keg or bottle? It's my opinion that the act of bottling in an open system is too much oxygen exposure for an extremely hoppy beer.

Wow. Funky Buddha is the brewery I was referring to. I had their Hop Gun IPA.

I brew in a closed keg system so oxidation is definitely not the the issue on my end. I'm convinced it's the water.

 

[Skiffy]

Haha. Not sure how I got some in Philly but that beer won't make very good impressions. I have good brewing water, which if not ideal for an IPA, should be close enough to make a solid beer. I wrote off mash pH as not being the issue since I made a Belgian single completely devoid of this flavor, but perhaps that is the issue. Do you check mash pH? I haven't brewed a hoppy beer since using lactic acid to adjust pH but it's all guesswork at this moment for me since I don't have a reliable pH meter.

Also, reviews on BA for More Moro indicated that the first batch was great and people thought this year's was not good. If you can talk to the Brewer again ask if they changed anything recently.