Nothing I can do will bring water to boil on my stove... advice?

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Geordan

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I've spent a good 10 weeks reading everything available regarding homebrewing, and feel like I've got a very solid theoretical understanding of the proceses. I was holding off on brewing until after Christmas, as I knew my wife was buying me a starter kit, so in preparation, I bought a couple carboys on Craigslist, some tubing, etc. Should have been ready to go.

Went to assemble everything to start earlier this week and realized my biggest pot -- 7 liters -- was just too small to do anything in (doh!) No problem, I drove downtown and bought a nice 4mm aluminum 32 quart pot for $65. Brought it home and tossed it on my Frigidaire electric stove to boil some water and... nothing. Nada. Okay, lowered it down to 5 gallons. Nothing. 3 gallons? Nope.

I tried spanning the pot across two burners; I can JUST put one edge over the large front burner and catch about 1/3rd of the small back burner. Still nothing -- couldn't bring water to more than about 90 degrees celsius.

No problem, figured this might happen, so I went out and spent another $40 to buy a 2600w canning element. Get home, throw 3 gallons in the pot, put it on the canning element... and hit a rolling boil in about an hour with the lid on. However, the instant I take the lid off the boil falls back to about 90-95 degrees again.

Feeling hopeless, I wrapped the entire pot in about 30' of heavy duty aluminum foil, put more foil under the element to direct it straight up around the pot, and preboiled 3 gallons of water using my three other elements and smaller pots. Tossed the boiled water in, put the lid on and kept a rolling boil, but once again fell back to 90-95 almost instantly without the lid. I can keep it at around 95 by fashioning a "cowl" around the top of the pot with aluminum foil to shrink the opening, but I still can't get it above more than a very lazy bubble. I've read about using Reflectix to wrap the kettle, but I can't see how it will help that much more than the aluminum foil, and I don't have $30+ to spend on a solution that doesn't end up working.

The only logical solution I've come to is installing an electric heating element IN the pot. However, there are no GFCId outlets in my kitchen -- closest is across the apartment in the bathroom -- and the kitchen outlets are 15A split from 30A breakers, which I've been told can't have GFCIs installed on them. I can't do the old "outside with a propane burner" method, as I live in a small apartment with no balcony or outside area to speak of, and no close friends or relatives with driveways to use within 50 miles. I'm more or less out of funds for equipment at the moment, so I'm not sure what my next steps are. I've read about heatsticks, but for just about the same cost and complexity I can mount the element IN the kettle and have less overall stress. Would mounting a 1000W 120V heating element in the pot give me enough additional power to bring water to a boil?

Okay, that was long and convoluted, but does anyone have any input?

TL;DR: Can't boil 3 gallons of water in a 32 quart aluminum pot on a 2600w electric stove element. Can't brew outside. Out of money. Help?
 
electric stoves stink dude:p

Get the $40 home depot turkey fryer. Welcome to outdoor brewing.

edit: o.k. I tried to work my way through that book. I see you don't want to use an outdoor pot. You can always just start with no boil cans of prehopped extract and add LME. It works too.
 
Since you cant buy a turkey fryer or propane burner and can only do stove top. Did you try 2 2 gal boils, i can barely manage that on my glasstop. I do 2 gallon boils, maybe you should get a 3 gallon carboy and try making half batches(2.5 gal), that way you may do full boils, but you still could do a partial boil and top off.Im pretty happy with making 16 beer experimental batches although i can pull off a double batch barely if i want boiling 2-2gallon pots. I probably could manage a 5 gallon batch but would have to top off a gallon or so. There are a lot of people that make smaller batches if you need help conjuring up or scaling a recipe or kit.
 
I agree with the turkey fryer. Although your not supposed to use them indoors it's not like your heating veg or peanut oil. If your comfortable with it and have a hard floor I would use it inside. 32 qt is plenty big enough of a pot to not have to worry about a boil over. Just bought a turkey fryer at Walmart for like 30. Lowes was out of the king cooker with spigot :(

Moderator's Note:

*************************************
*********** W A R N I N G ! ! ! ***********
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*** NEVER USE TURKEY FRYERS INDOORS ***
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Last edited by a moderator:
I agree with the turkey fryer. Although your not supposed to use them indoors it's not like your heating veg or peanut oil. If your comfortable with it and have a hard floor I would use it inside. 32 qt is plenty big enough of a pot to not have to worry about a boil over. Just bought a turkey fryer at Walmart for like 30. Lowes was out of the king cooker with spigot :(

I would not I mean not do this.
 
Does your clothes dryer run off a 220v outlet? You might want to consider going all electric. Although a small part of it, the elements are pretty cheap. Of course, there's more to it than just 'plugging it in' but, there's a forum dedicated to all electric. You might want to check it out.
 
Why have a wood burning stove or a fireplace when you can have your very own turkey fryer! Right in your living room. Ha:)
 
do not, repeat do not use a propane burner indoors. carbon monoxide poisoning is a possibility. not to mention fire hazard and propane bottles are not suppose to be kept indoors. your health is worth more than a batch of beer.
 
Split the batch into 2 pots. Adjust a bit for increased evaporation. Adjust a bit for less efficient hops efficiency. You can also leave the lid partially on, enough to keep the boil going but let the steam and dms out. You can also do a smaller batch with a bigger post boil top up (with sterilized water or ice). With this you again should slightly adjust hops upward to account for less boil volume.

I did all if these until I moved to propane (outside).
 
Okay so I didn't think that through. That's why I'm new to this and should keep my comments to myself
 
Does your clothes dryer run off a 220v outlet? You might want to consider going all electric. Although a small part of it, the elements are pretty cheap. Of course, there's more to it than just 'plugging it in' but, there's a forum dedicated to all electric. You might want to check it out.

The dryer is 240V/30A, but the plug cannot be accessed without taking apart the laundry closet beside my front door. It seems more realistic, in fact, so slide the stove out and use that 240V/30A connection, now that I think about it.

I've read and re-read the Electric forum, been through The Electric Brewery, but my searching to date has left me more confused than anything. I know that a SSR+PID controller is typical, but I have yet to find a resource that I feel confident that I understand that discusses exactly how it is assembled and works in relation to electric brewing. Most post and articles I find seem to assume a basic understanding of how the controller is assembled.
 
Split the batch into 2 pots. Adjust a bit for increased evaporation. Adjust a bit for less efficient hops efficiency. You can also leave the lid partially on, enough to keep the boil going but let the steam and dms out. You can also do a smaller batch with a bigger post boil top up (with sterilized water or ice). With this you again should slightly adjust hops upward to account for less boil volume.

I did all if these until I moved to propane (outside).

If I left the lid just a bit off -- maybe a quarter to a third open to release steam, but still mostly covered -- would this be enough to eliminate/reduce the danger of DMS?
 
I say spend your tax refund on a gas stove (about $500) at sears. Get something with a power burner and you will be fine.

I agree with previous posters, NO PROPANE inside at all !!

Good luck !
 
I would go with smaller batches if your out of funds as you have stated. Its pretty easy scaling down. Otherwise do partial boils/topp off. If you had time you could boil one pot an hour than another the next hour also.
 
I'm not sure what the mathematical forumla would be for getting that 'little bit extra' from a mounted 1000w 120v element in your pot would be but, I'm sure there is one. At 90' celsius, you're really close. I can't imagine why it wouldn't work.

I looked into going all electric last year but found that I know nothing about electricity and would probably wind up electrocuting myself. Personally? I wound up setting up a propane burner in my basement. But, I also have four concrete walls, a concrete floor, good ventilation, co2 detectors and a fire extinguisher within arms reach and I don't leave the room while the cooker is running. But hey, that's just me... :)
 
Put a lid on the pot. It traps in the heat should get you to a boil. Then just remove it once you've reached the boil, and should continue to boil. If that doesn't work then cover the top of the pot with plastic wrap so that it seals. That works really well too. I'm a chef and any time we need water boiling in a hurry that's what we do.
 
My vote goes towards the double pot method as it has worked for me on my last 3 batches. Just split your mash between the two then split your hops. Cheap, easy, and you won't burn your apartment down

edit: be extra wary of boil overs because both boiling over at the same time is NOT fun. Have a water spray bottle handy to keep them at bay (mostly)
 
OK I have a question... everyone went nuts saying DO NOT use the turkey fryer indoors ( I agree) but then someone recommended a gas range with a power burner.....wait for it....which is a PROPANE burner. The risk of carbon monoxide couldn't be much more ( if any) with a turkey fryer in the middle of the kitchen floor than a gas stove with all 4 burners going could it? That said do not use the turkey fryer in the house, the risk of a fire would worry me more than carbon monoxide.
 
When I started all grain brewing in my old apartment I did the split boil method with two pots going and just split my hop additions between the two pots. I didn't think it was that big a deal and made some fine beers that way.

Good Luck :mug:
 
a stove designed for inside use has been engineered to be much more efficient and not emit the carbon monoxide levels any were near what a turkey fryer emits. If you read the warnings that came with the turkey fryer this will be confirmed.
 
I do 2.5 gallon partial boils inside and then after cooling the wort and transferring it to the carboy, I top off, shake vigorously and aerate with an aquarium pump for 30 minutes. This has worked well for me the 3 times I did it (last time I brewed outdoors with a full boil and hated it, and I got a cold to boot...back indoors for me). You may try reducing your boil volume by .5 gallons and see if that helps. It shouldn't be taking 2+ hours to achieve boil regardless. Does it take a long time to heat up the stove normally? Is this some kind of malfunction?
 
I would strongly suspect that adding a 120v 15a heat stick to your existing stovetop setup would allow you to achieve a good boil. And you can get a Gfci cord (should be considered a requirement here) that will plug into a non-Gfci outlet.

Btw, check your lease before you unplug the stove to get to that juicy power connection - I think some have clauses about using the stove plug for anything else. Not sure where I heard that, now that I think of it, or how they'd find out, for that matter.
 
Here is my 2 cents...
1. Heat stick 120V 15A with GFIC Cord. (Until you can get one use...#2)
2. Keep the lid on until the boil is vigorous, then open it some... experiment with this so your allowing the DMS and evap to occur but keeping the boil... adjust your boil time...
3. Split batch if the above fail...

Turkey fryers are outdoor rated and very inefficient DO NOT USE INDOORS they give off a lot of unburned propane and unlike natural gas propane is heavier than air and goes to the floor, and they produce CO... not worth the risk. There are indoor rated propane burners but not practical for an apartment. I use indoor rated propane burners (no where near as fast as a turkey fryer) in my basement brew room... CO Monitor, Explosive Gas Monitor, Fire Extinguisher, exhaust fan and fresh air in fan again not practical for an apartment.
 
Few posts back, a stove with a propane burner would generally have a stove hood above it also. I agree with the many pots ideas others have come up with. Are you doing AG or Extract? I was able to brew extract on a 25+ year old stove in 1 22 QT pot only boiling 2 gallons of water. Have you figured out how much water you can boil?
 
Few posts back, a stove with a propane burner would generally have a stove hood above it also. I agree with the many pots ideas others have come up with. Are you doing AG or Extract? I was able to brew extract on a 25+ year old stove in 1 22 QT pot only boiling 2 gallons of water. Have you figured out how much water you can boil?

The plan is to do extract. The frustration is that I can get 2 gallons of water to a boil no problem in my 2.25 gallon stock pot on a 2100w burner, but can't get a real boil with 3 gallons in my 32qt pot with 3 gallons. I have yet to try 2.5 gallons, as the kit that came from my LHBS warns quite strictly to use a "minimum of 3 gallons" and while I know these things are actually flexible, I was hoping to stick as close to someone else's experience as possible in the beginning.
 
Just a bit more information for the group: the pot I bought is a 32 QT 4mm NSF Aluminum Black Label 1100 Alloy commercial stock pot by Johnson Rose (Product 6542 -- I would link it directly but they go out of their way to prevent that for some reason.) This may sound silly, but is there a chance the pot is "defective?" Can you really have a "defective" aluminum pot?
 
I am also in an apartment where I can not use my turkey fryer. Five gallon boils are basically impossible on a stove top, and as I have new faucets I've yet to find an attachment for a my chiller. This is a separate but important issue - how do you cool 5 gallons in your sink!?

My solution is to brew 2.5 gallon full boil batches. I can chill these efficiently in my sink with an ice bath. I use 3 gallon carboys which are easier to transport. I can even fit two in my Tupperware swamp cooler. It's a smaller and more manageable amount which, for me, equals more brewing.
 
If you are extract you don't have to worry about DMS, so you can keep your kettle partially covered to enable your boil.
 
OK I have a question... everyone went nuts saying DO NOT use the turkey fryer indoors ( I agree) but then someone recommended a gas range with a power burner.....wait for it....which is a PROPANE burner. The risk of carbon monoxide couldn't be much more ( if any) with a turkey fryer in the middle of the kitchen floor than a gas stove with all 4 burners going could it? That said do not use the turkey fryer in the house, the risk of a fire would worry me more than carbon monoxide.

Well if you have doubts check this out...

Turkey Fryer Kits, 30 Quart Turkey Fryer Kit 3066A

I wonder why in the description it says "outdoor gas cooker" and "outdoor propane burner" then ???

It's because the BTU's are a LOT higher typically 55K to 100K BTU's VS a home gas range with the POWER burner at about 12K max.

Your choice....... just trying to warn you. No one that I know would brew inside a house with an outdoor propane burner.

In a garage with the door fully open yes, a closed room with no venting......... come on man ! :)
 
If I left the lid just a bit off -- maybe a quarter to a third open to release steam, but still mostly covered -- would this be enough to eliminate/reduce the danger of DMS?

This is what I do with my partial batches on my apt electric stove top and it works fine. Especially if you are doing extract with steeping you dont have the DMS issue as a AG batch from what I hear. But regardless I do partials with up to 6lb of grain and have not problems with 3/4 coverage of the lid on the pot leaving only 1/4 open some times 1/3 open depending on how stable the boil holds.
 
Just a bit more information for the group: the pot I bought is a 32 QT 4mm NSF Aluminum Black Label 1100 Alloy commercial stock pot by Johnson Rose (Product 6542 -- I would link it directly but they go out of their way to prevent that for some reason.) This may sound silly, but is there a chance the pot is "defective?" Can you really have a "defective" aluminum pot?

I don't see how this could be a "defective" pot, but maybe the fact that it's aluminum is part of the problem. When I started brewing with extract, I used a 5 gallon stainless steel pot with the "tri-clad" bottom (like the MegaPot). I could boil 4 gallons with the pot on a single 2500 watt coil - due to the stove configuration I couldn't straddle two coils. It took a long time to get to boil, and it wasn't a vigorous boil, maybe just barely boiling, but it was boiling even with the lid off. Maybe the difference is due to the fact that stainless steel doesn't conduct heat nearly as well as aluminum? If that is the case, then some good insulation might work for you - the trick is to find something that won't melt or catch fire.

One thing I did notice was that after running that one coil at max for a couple of hours, the entire top of my stove got awfully hot, so maybe you would be better off in the long run with a heat stick to help your stove - I bet even a 1500 watt heat stick added to the stove power would do the job.

EDIT: The coil I was using was 2500 watt, not 1400.
 
man, if you cant boil water, how do you boil eggs, or make macaroni, spaghetti, oatmeal, rice, soup, sauces... god forbid you guys get a boil water notice for water contaminates. never heard of such a thing?
 
The plan is to do extract. The frustration is that I can get 2 gallons of water to a boil no problem in my 2.25 gallon stock pot on a 2100w burner, but can't get a real boil with 3 gallons in my 32qt pot with 3 gallons. I have yet to try 2.5 gallons, as the kit that came from my LHBS warns quite strictly to use a "minimum of 3 gallons" and while I know these things are actually flexible, I was hoping to stick as close to someone else's experience as possible in the beginning.

It's the pot... it's too BIG. All that heat is conducted into aluminum with little left for the water. A 20 quart pot is plenty big enough.

SIZE MATTERS... in this case.
 
I would not I mean not do this.

do not, repeat do not use a propane burner indoors. carbon monoxide poisoning is a possibility. not to mention fire hazard and propane bottles are not suppose to be kept indoors. your health is worth more than a batch of beer.

How about we provide useful information on proper use of equipment rather than useless rhetorical dismissals. Hmm?

We are but one a few nations that do not employ the use of small volume propane for cooking appliances indoors. The difference is in understanding what you are doing. Trailer homes and RV use propane burners indoors, teh difference being adequate ventilation provided.

Jurisdictional fire codes are the ONLY validated reasoning behind the use of propane appliances indoors. Stupidity is another. But lets at least give people the benifit of doubt.
 
Just a bit more information for the group: the pot I bought is a 32 QT 4mm NSF Aluminum Black Label 1100 Alloy commercial stock pot by Johnson Rose (Product 6542 -- I would link it directly but they go out of their way to prevent that for some reason.) This may sound silly, but is there a chance the pot is "defective?" Can you really have a "defective" aluminum pot?

I looked up the pot you bought. It's 13 3/4 in diameter and 12 7/16 deep. Does that sound right? Here's your problem. With that size pot 3 gallons takes up appx. 4.5 inches. There almost 7 inches of Al pot that's not in contact with the water. That is your problem and here's why.

Aluminum has a specific heat of 0.902. Water has a specific heat of 4.179. In simple terms it takes less heat .902 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of water 1 degree C. It take 4 times the energy in joules to heat 1 gm of water 1 degree C. Add to all that the specific heat of air at 1.01 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of air 1 degree C and you have a MAJOR problem using a big aluminum pot.

Heat transfers the easiest way possible. What you have in that big old pot is a giant heat sink. The aluminum is suckin' up too much heat, transferring it into the air with what small amount left over going into the water.

The specific heat of a steel pot is half of aluminum so more heat transfers to the water.

Get a smaller pot. Aluminum is great in that it evenly distributes the heat and less likely to scorch your wort. I have aluminum and steel. I prefer the aluminum but it has to be the right size for the job.
 
I looked up the pot you bought. It's 13 3/4 in diameter and 12 7/16 deep. Does that sound right? Here's your problem. With that size pot 3 gallons takes up appx. 4.5 inches. There almost 7 inches of Al pot that's not in contact with the water. That is your problem and here's why.

Aluminum has a specific heat of 0.902. Water has a specific heat of 4.179. In simple terms it takes less heat .902 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of water 1 degree C. It take 4 times the energy in joules to heat 1 gm of water 1 degree C. Add to all that the specific heat of air at 1.01 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of air 1 degree C and you have a MAJOR problem using a big aluminum pot.

Heat transfers the easiest way possible. What you have in that big old pot is a giant heat sink. The aluminum is suckin' up too much heat, transferring it into the air with what small amount left over going into the water.

The specific heat of a steel pot is half of aluminum so more heat transfers to the water.

Get a smaller pot. Aluminum is great in that it evenly distributes the heat and less likely to scorch your wort. I have aluminum and steel. I prefer the aluminum but it has to be the right size for the job.
This was very helpful thank you8
 
There isn't anything important going on in the wort when it's boiling that isn't already happening when it's near boil.
Brew a smaller batch with a rolling boil, and one at 195F with slightly longer duration. Compare the two after fermentation. I ran this test and honestly I don't think there is any real difference in the taste. There is a exbeeriment but the test compares them with the same duration, which as we all know isn't a valid comparison. http://brulosophy.com/2018/07/02/the-no-boil-effect-exbeeriment-results/
The general consensus for when the DMS breakdown occurs is 180F. DMS also vaporizes at temperatures far below the boiling temperature.
A rolling boil is obviously preferred, but I'd just go for a longer near-boil instead of complicating things. Anything you add is just extra spending, stuff to clean, stuff to store.
 
Necro thread, but Aluminum is not the problem. I don't know the physics but I boil 4 gallons of wort in my 5 gallon aluminum pot just as easily or maybe even more easily than my 5 gallon stainless steel pot. One difference is the aluminum pot is flat on the bottom, the stainless is raised in the center with a 3 inch rim around the outside. Without contact I thought I would have a problem but it will boil easily also.
 

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