New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[stickyfinger]

A friend of mine and I live in New York State, and we have been drinking various amazing NEIPAs and other IPAs for several years now. He is right now in Oregon tasting several of their offerings, Rogue and others. He says that the NWIPA and WCIPA styles are also delicious, and he grew up with them as an Oregon native and a huge fan of clear IPA such as Rogue and Stone and others. They were the styles that he grew up with. He comments that they are more bitter in general but have excellent hop flavor. His final synopsis after this excursion back to the west coast clear IPAs is that the NEIPAs are better in terms of juicy overwhelming hop flavor. His only complaint is that many of the current NEIPAs don't have either enough bitterness or maybe crispness for him.

So, I'd say in answering your question that it is possible to make beers that are clear and maybe pretty good mouthfeel, but they won't be as hoppy as NEIPAs or hazy IPAs. I've made hazy WC style IPAs that I loved. They are very different from most NEIPAs, and they are different from more classic, clear Westerly IPAS. They can have excellent mouthfeel and great hoppiness, but they differ in that they maybe use Chico and have a very assertive bitterness.

I am starting to think that we will reach a point where we stop defining IPAs as hazy, WC, NW, NEIPA, etc. and just give them a name and see if people like them. some will like more bitter versions, some no bitterness, some clearer, some hazier. Some might be bitter and hazy. Some might be hazy and soft. Some might be really dank and hazy or dank and clear. It's just a huge range of characteristics.

The final comment is that I don't see how the most flavorful, hoppy beers can be really clear. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

 

[Hannabrew]

My latest batch. Finally getting the color I've been shooting for

 

[couchsending]

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

Flavor and aroma for sure... the exact mouthfeel is rather difficult to replicate without the haze in my opinion.

 

[TBryerton]

Awesome! Hold the can upside down when you shake it. That baby is pretty old, so it may take two shakings a few hours apart since you can only shake them so much until they completely foam up inside the can.

Pictures don’t really do justice but you were correct - back to full haze for a TH beer. I have to admit, it was better than the previous 5m old Julius. Still not close to fresh, but definitely an improvement.

 

[stickyfinger]

Every single time I open a can of hoppy beer I invert it gently and roll it around. I think that should be SOP for all of these beers to resuspend the hops compounds...

 

[beervoid]

Every single time I open a can of hoppy beer I invert it gently and roll it around. I think that should be SOP for all of these beers to resuspend the hops compounds...

It really depends on the beer. If its brewed correct it will make it better but more often then not in my experience you get the stuff in suspension that doesnt do the beer justice and it turns into yeasty or bitter muddled.

 

[kevink]

My latest batch. Finally getting the color I've been shooting for

That looks nice. What's the grain bill?

 

[troglodytes]

48 hours will drop plenty of yeast, certainly not all but enough. Obviously depends on the strain you’re using. Even the pros that use Chico usually only give it 24 hours and that yeast doesn’t flocc that well at all.

So I finally got around to making my first batch using the recipe using the link in post #5803 and employing a lot of the methods I've seen through out this conversation and the "NEIPA Don'ts" thread. I particularly focused on couchsendings timing when it comes to fermentation's temps from the "Don'ts" thread and I am supremely happy with how things are going.

I can say for a fact that managing my pre-boil pH from 5.25 post mash to 5.1 resulted in a smooth bitterness I have been looking for for a long time. The soft crash after fermentation and rest down to 55F for 48 hours resulted in the clearest hydrometer sample I've ever taken, so it definitely dropped a large portion of yeast out of suspension. I brought the temp back up to 61F for dry hopping for 48 hours and now its cold crashed at 38F and should be kegging in a couple days.

I do have remaining concerns when it comes to dry hopping and oxygen ingress. I brew in a Speidel and love it. I use the stock spigot on the top for my blow off tube and a stainless ball valve on bottom with arm for transferring to keg. I've been slightly pressurizing the head space to about 1-2 psi of CO2 before crashing to avoid oxygenation. But when it comes to dry hopping I'm worried about:

1) I am hopping in a bag to avoid the absolute mess I had the last time trying to transfer to keg and clogging constantly. I dropped in the hop bag as fast as I could and then flushed the headspace with CO2 and reattached the blowoff tube. Is this enough to negate the O2 I introduced into the headspace and into the beer itself, as I'm assuming the hops will also be pulling oxygen from the outside?

2) I have had real issues with grassy flavors from highly hopped beers that were left for several days and then cold crashed with 8 oz of hops still in the beer. For this reason I wanted to remove the bag prior to the final cold crash. There is no way to do this without at least a little splashing. 8 oz of hops expand to a pretty large size so the hops bag got squeezed and splashed into the beer below as I removed it despite the large mouth of the vessel, but again, I flushed and pressurized the headspace before cold crashing down to 38F. Should I have done this step, or is the risk of oxidation from pulling the hops a bigger risk than off flavors from cold storing with the hops in batch?

Anyway, thank you to the main contributors to this thread. this batch is the best tasting highly hopped beer I've made to date. Whether it has a long shelf life, we'll find out (or maybe not because I'll drink it too fast).

 

[Dgallo]

So I finally got around to making my first batch using the recipe using the link in post #5803 and employing a lot of the methods I've seen through out this conversation and the "NEIPA Don'ts" thread. I particularly focused on couchsendings timing when it comes to fermentation's temps from the "Don'ts" thread and I am supremely happy with how things are going.

I can say for a fact that managing my pre-boil pH from 5.25 post mash to 5.1 resulted in a smooth bitterness I have been looking for for a long time. The soft crash after fermentation and rest down to 55F for 48 hours resulted in the clearest hydrometer sample I've ever taken, so it definitely dropped a large portion of yeast out of suspension. I brought the temp back up to 61F for dry hopping for 48 hours and now its cold crashed at 38F and should be kegging in a couple days.

I do have remaining concerns when it comes to dry hopping and oxygen ingress. I brew in a Speidel and love it. I use the stock spigot on the top for my blow off tube and a stainless ball valve on bottom with arm for transferring to keg. I've been slightly pressurizing the head space to about 1-2 psi of CO2 before crashing to avoid oxygenation. But when it comes to dry hopping I'm worried about:

1) I am hopping in a bag to avoid the absolute mess.

Ideally you should be dryhoppubg without a bag, then you can actually decrease the size of the total dryhop because of the increase in efficiency due to increased surface area.

 

[troglodytes]

Ideally you should be dryhoppubg without a bag, then you can actually decrease the size of the total dryhop because of the increase in efficiency due to increased surface area.

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

 

[tld6008]

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

That really seems like a lot of trouble and a good way to introduce O2 as you are rightly concerned about. Just my personal experience but if I CC the beer to 50f 99% of the time all the hops will drop to the bottom. I do use glass carboys and can see the progress. I also rock the carboy twice a day to agitate the hops which I think helps during DH as well as CC. Sometimes there will be a little bit of hops hanging around the perimeter at the surface but lowering the temp a few more degrees will cause them to drop also.
I just checked my notes and the lowest I have gone to drop hops was 45f sometimes it is just to the low 50s. I also take about 2 days to do this.

 

[SRJHops]

Question about whirlpool times and temps... The new issue of Zymurgy has a Julius clone with a 1-hour whirlpool at 108! That really flies against Janish's whirpool suggestions of 203 and 185 (which seems hot to me, but he's got the research to back it.)

Wondering where folks are for their whirlpool times and temps? I do think I need to make mine longer, but not sure about that low temp!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/tree-house-brewing-company-julius-clone/

 

[tld6008]

Question about whirlpool times and temps... The new issue of Zymurgy has a Julius clone with a 1-hour whirlpool at 108! That really flies against Janish's whirpool suggestions of 203 and 185 (which seems hot to me, but he's got the research to back it.)

Wondering where folks are for their whirlpool times and temps? I do think I need to make mine longer, but not sure about that low temp!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/tree-house-brewing-company-julius-clone/

I have made that recipe three times and the whirlpool recommendation used to be 30 minutes which I followed, I did it @ 110f. Can't say if it was a good clone never having tasted Julius but its pretty good.

 

[Loud Brewing]

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

I agree with Dgallo, comando is the way to go. Try adding a floating dip tube to your fermenter, it works excellently during transfer

 

[troglodytes]

That really seems like a lot of trouble and a good way to introduce O2 as you are rightly concerned about. Just my personal experience but if I CC the beer to 50f 99% of the time all the hops will drop to the bottom. I do use glass carboys and can see the progress. I also rock the carboy twice a day to agitate the hops which I think helps during DH as well as CC. Sometimes there will be a little bit of hops hanging around the perimeter at the surface but lowering the temp a few more degrees will cause them to drop also.
I just checked my notes and the lowest I have gone to drop hops was 45f sometimes it is just to the low 50s. I also take about 2 days to do this.

this is what I've heard multiple times. I just don't know why my situation is different. Granted last time I brewwed with loose hops I didn't cold crash at all and definitely should have because it was a mess, but the time prior to that I crashed to high 30s for 3 days and still had a half inch of sludge floating on top of the beer. It never settled. I used an auto siphon at that time and siphoned from below the sludge to bottle.

I obviously introduced O2 pulling the bag, but with a flush (7 time CO2 purge to the head space), I should have negated it to a good extent, correct?

 

[isomerization]

Question about whirlpool times and temps... The new issue of Zymurgy has a Julius clone with a 1-hour whirlpool at 108! That really flies against Janish's whirpool suggestions of 203 and 185 (which seems hot to me, but he's got the research to back it.)

Wondering where folks are for their whirlpool times and temps? I do think I need to make mine longer, but not sure about that low temp!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/tree-house-brewing-company-julius-clone/

See here and here for more info on the backstory of this recipe and the original blogpost, respectively.

 

[MoonBrewer]

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

I have had better transfer success from my Speidel by placing a small board under the front so the fermenter tilts back maybe 15 degrees. After final cold crash and the hops/yeast have settled, carefully remove the board and return fermenter to horizontal.

First I usually pull a hydromter sample which clears any debris that collected near the valve. Then connect transfer tubing, purge, and start the pressurized transfer. This process drastically reduced hops in the transfer and have not had any clogs.

 

[troglodytes]

I tried tilting the fermenter for the first, fingers crossed tomorrow nights transfer.

 

[tld6008]

this is what I've heard multiple times. I just don't know why my situation is different. Granted last time I brewwed with loose hops I didn't cold crash at all and definitely should have because it was a mess, but the time prior to that I crashed to high 30s for 3 days and still had a half inch of sludge floating on top of the beer. It never settled. I used an auto siphon at that time and siphoned from below the sludge to bottle.

I obviously introduced O2 pulling the bag, but with a flush (7 time CO2 purge to the head space), I should have negated it to a good extent, correct?

I would say you definitely greatly reduced any O2 that entered but just opening the container to me is a risk you should keep to an absolute minimum. I have to open mine twice once for dryhop and once to insert the racking (co2 purged) cane . I push the beer out with 2 psi co2 into a co2 purged keg but not through the QD. I open the keg top and insert the hose from the cane to the bottom of the keg and put a small paper plate over the top of the keg. I transfer the beer within 5 minutes and feel good about no O2 pickup as the co2 in the keg is constantly pushed out. Once the keg is capped I purge 5 times and have never had an oxidation issue. Probably more info than you want but this works well for me.

 

[marchuk96]

I agree with Dgallo, comando is the way to go. Try adding a floating dip tube to your fermenter, it works excellently during transfer

I'll also agree...I use a Fermonster and I will also rock it a few times after dry hops have been in for a day periodically...then crash as cold as your fridge will go...mine is usually ready to rock at 24 hr's and is usually sitting around 40 degrees...never had an issue

 

[ryanm8]

Made another batch of this after taking a break to brew some other styles. It came out fantastic. Man, I really missed having this beer around. None of the NEIPA's I can get from local breweries come close.

I made a few tweaks. I soft crashed to 60 F for 24 hours and then dry hopped in a BIAB bag (so the hops can float freely). I let it free rise to around 72 for 3 days and then bottled. Seemed to come out even murkier than usual and bursting with flavor.

For the next batch, I might keep the temp at 60 for the duration of the dry hop. I was concerned it would not extract as much flavor so I let it free rise. Are people dry hopping at 50 or 60 F without issue?

 

[Hannabrew]

That looks nice. What's the grain bill?

40% 2row
35% Golden Promise
11% Malted Oats
7% Malted Wheat
6% Carapils
1% Caramunich I

Here's a poured pic

 

[Dgallo]

40% 2row
35% Golden Promise
11% Malted Oats
7% Malted Wheat
6% Carapils
1% Caramunich I

Here's a poured pic

View attachment 632639

You got very nice head retention for using malted oats. Does it actually stick around or does it fade rather quickly?

I’ve never been able to have a head last using malted oats

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Question about whirlpool times and temps... The new issue of Zymurgy has a Julius clone with a 1-hour whirlpool at 108! That really flies against Janish's whirpool suggestions of 203 and 185 (which seems hot to me, but he's got the research to back it.)

Wondering where folks are for their whirlpool times and temps? I do think I need to make mine longer, but not sure about that low temp!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/tree-house-brewing-company-julius-clone/

I've tried it several different ways. I used to drop temp to 170-180 and whirlpool all the hops at that temp for 30 minutes or so. My last few batches I've put in half the whirlpool hops at flameout for about 15 minutes and the other half when temp is down to about 170/175 for another 15 minutes. Both those methods have produced some really good beers for me. I did a batch one time where I whirlpooled for a really long time, I believe several hours, because I had to leave the house for awhile. I'm sure the temp got down really low on that one. I did not notice any enhanced hop flavor so I generally keep it to 30 minutes. My brew day is long enough already.

 

[stickyfinger]

I've done 3 IPAs now dry hopping at 60F after a cold crash. One is great, one is less great (but was probably due to my insanely high dry hop rate) and the last one I just racked last night and it has huge aroma and amazing flavor from the dregs sample. I'd try doing 60F for your next dry hop and see what you think. I think 1-1.33 oz/gal works well.

One reason I like this method is that you don't have to worry as much about hop creep. I did an IPA with a warm dry hop a few weeks ago, and it had huge hop creep. The IPA I just kegged after doing a soft crash dry hop had zero hop creep.

Made another batch of this after taking a break to brew some other styles. It came out fantastic. Man, I really missed having this beer around. None of the NEIPA's I can get from local breweries come close.

I made a few tweaks. I soft crashed to 60 F for 24 hours and then dry hopped in a BIAB bag (so the hops can float freely). I let it free rise to around 72 for 3 days and then bottled. Seemed to come out even murkier than usual and bursting with flavor.

For the next batch, I might keep the temp at 60 for the duration of the dry hop. I was concerned it would not extract as much flavor so I let it free rise. Are people dry hopping at 50 or 60 F without issue?

 

[Hannabrew]

You got very nice head retention for using malted oats. Does it actually stick around or does it fade rather quickly?

I’ve never been able to have a head last using malted oats

Thanks. It lasts. Using the LowOxygen techniques really will do wonders for your head. I actually don't use sulfites for NEIPAs as malt is certainly not the focus but I do use all the rest of the techniques including clear wort throughout, BTB, spunding, etc.

 

[Dgallo]

With 9 days left to the forth, I’m thinking of brewing a NEIPA or a sesssion NEIPA. Using a Kviek I could have either ready in time. I want to do a single hop. So I have 2019 Galaxy and 2018 Mosiac and I can’t decide For me Mosiac is one of the best if not the best stand alone hop but fresh galaxy is fresh galaxy lol what are your thoughts? Someone help me make a decision.

 

[isomerization]

With 9 days left to the forth, I’m thinking of brewing a NEIPA or a sesssion NEIPA. Using a Kviek I could have either ready in time. I want to do a single hop. So I have 2019 Galaxy and 2018 Mosiac and I can’t decide For me Mosiac is one of the best if not the best stand alone hop but fresh galaxy is fresh galaxy lol what are your thoughts? Someone help me make a decision.

If you’re worried about timing, I’d avoid the Galaxy (hop burn).

 

[Dgallo]

If you’re worried about timing, I’d avoid the Galaxy (hop burn).

That was certainly a fear of mine but I’ve heard a few guys who’ve used this lot of Galaxy from YVH and they didn’t get that hop burn. Also if I do a session it will only require a today or 8oz of hops

 

[isomerization]

That was certainly a fear of mine but I’ve heard a few guys who’ve used this lot of Galaxy from YVH and they didn’t get that hop burn. Also if I do a session it will only require a today or 8oz of hops

Sounds like you have your answer

 

[stickyfinger]

I've used the Galaxy from the very first YVH sale from this year in two IPAs and both were drinkable the day after they were carbonated. Go for the Galaxy. Incidentally, I just did a Galaxy-Mosaic 1:1, and that tastes awesome as well...

That was certainly a fear of mine but I’ve heard a few guys who’ve used this lot of Galaxy from YVH and they didn’t get that hop burn. Also if I do a session it will only require a today or 8oz of hops

 

[stickyfinger]

I love this quote from the YVH site about Galaxy hops...

"***By purchasing these hops, you agree to brew with them yourself and not resell them... because only a turd would do something like that.***"

 

[Genuine]

Another thing I've been thinking about lately has been Whirl pool time. Do you get more extraction from an hour or hour and a half long whirlpool vs 30 min? Does it make a noticeable difference?

Edit: Well, eff me for not reading the latest post before posting...lol.

 

[Loud Brewing]

2row
Malted wheat
Malted oats
Cane sugar
No flaked adjuncts, good head retention
Wlp-008
.5g per gal gypsum 1.5g per gal cal chloride
Small citra bitter at 10min
Citra and mosaic whirlpool at 180f for 15min
Double dry hopped w citra and mosaic day 3 and 7
Og 1065 Fg 1008
Crisp w lime zest and tropical fruit
Canned on kegland cannular at higher vols

 

[SRJHops]

I've tried it several different ways. I used to drop temp to 170-180 and whirlpool all the hops at that temp for 30 minutes or so. My last few batches I've put in half the whirlpool hops at flameout for about 15 minutes and the other half when temp is down to about 170/175 for another 15 minutes. Both those methods have produced some really good beers for me. I did a batch one time where I whirlpooled for a really long time, I believe several hours, because I had to leave the house for awhile. I'm sure the temp got down really low on that one. I did not notice any enhanced hop flavor so I generally keep it to 30 minutes. My brew day is long enough already.

I hear you about the long brew day! One thing I took from the Julius clone recipe, other than considering longer WPs at lower temps, is to keep stirring as much as possible to keep the hops in suspension and maximize extraction. I have been stirring every 5-10 minutes, but I think I will try to just keep gently stirring the whole time next time.

I am also with you on the temps. I have been going with 200 (a little after flameout) for the first, and then drop to 180 - 170 for the second. (Sometimes I have a small third at 165.)

Last time I made the middle drop the longest at 20 mins; altogether it was about 40 mins. Beer turned out fine, but still trying to figure out the timing that works best for both flavor and bitterness!

 

[ttuato]

Made a “kitchen sink” NEIPA today - used up all of my hop remnants. Knowing my luck it will be the best beer I have ever brewed...

B: Bravo
WP: Willow Creek, Sabro, Southern Passion
DH1: Meridian, Vic Secret, Sabro
DH2: Vic Secret, Meridian, Galaxy

 

[Hannabrew]

Made a “kitchen sink” NEIPA today - used up all of my hop remnants. Knowing my luck it will be the best beer I have ever brewed...

B: Bravo
WP: Willow Creek, Sabro, Southern Passion
DH1: Meridian, Vic Secret, Sabro
DH2: Vic Secret, Meridian, Galaxy

Wow, definitely difficult to repeat!

 

[SRJHops]

Wow, definitely difficult to repeat!

ttuato, good luck - let us know how it turns out! I haven't even heard of some of those hops! Willow Creek?!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Willow Creek is a neomex from Colorado.

 

[Dgallo]

Willow Creek is a neomex from Colorado.

@marchuk96 shared this with me earlier in the year. This is a pretty sweet article about how that hop made its way to the mainstream and cultivation
https://beerandbrewing.com/the-hunt-for-wild-hops/