New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Good stuff, but sure makes me appreciate Janish even more. Could someone tell me what 800 g/hl means? And better yet, how many ounces per gallon that translates to?

A hectolitre is 100 litres, so 800g/hl is 8g/l. Which frankly is a whole lot easier to scale than messing about with Imperial/US units - and I say that as a Brit.

What do you mean by "gallons" - US or Imperial? 5 US gallons is 18.9 litres, 5 Imperial gallons is 22.7 litres.

There's 28.35 grams to an ounce, so 8g is .28oz, and so 8g/l is 5.34oz in 5 US gallons or 6.4oz in 5 Imperial gallons.
 
Good stuff, but sure makes me appreciate Janish even more. Could someone tell me what 800 g/hl means? And better yet, how many ounces per gallon that translates to?

No one is saying what he does is bad/wrong. I just wanted to make sure proper attribution was occurring. Scott is providing great literature reviews (not an easy task), he just isn’t really performing original research. As a scientist myself, it’s just a minor pet peeve.

Regarding the 800 g/hL conversion, you can google convert that! As @Northern_Brewer said, it’s basically 1 oz/gal (US).
 
Good stuff, but sure makes me appreciate Janish even more. Could someone tell me what 800 g/hl means? And better yet, how many ounces per gallon that translates to?

Quick math, somebody check me …

800 grams per hectoliter = 28.2 oz per 26.4 gallons or approx 1 oz per gallon

EDIT: I posted this with a couple posts missing. @Northern_Brewer makes a good point on the difference between Imperial and US gallons. I just went with US because, well, that's what I'm used to
 
A hectolitre is 100 litres, so 800g/hl is 8g/l. Which frankly is a whole lot easier to scale than messing about with Imperial/US units - and I say that as a Brit.

What do you mean by "gallons" - US or Imperial? 5 US gallons is 18.9 litres, 5 Imperial gallons is 22.7 litres.

There's 28.35 grams to an ounce, so 8g is .28oz, and so 8g/l is 5.34oz in 5 US gallons or 6.4oz in 5 Imperial gallons.

Thanks! (I meant US gallons.) So, for that study using those hops (I think it was Cascade), Shellhammer was looking at dry hop rates and aroma/flavor. He concluded that using more than that amount (about 1 oz per gallon for dry hopping) does not lead to more aroma/flavor. Or at least that is what I think he is saying -- those science articles can be a tough slog for a non-scientist.

Now, this was at the commercial scale I believe, so I take it with a grain of salt, but it is in the ballpark of what many folks on this thread suggest. For a NEIPA, assuming we use the same amount for the hot side (big assumption?), that would be somewhere around 10-11 ounces of hops total for a 5-gallon batch.

Personally, I think it should be a bit higher because we aren't likely getting the same extraction -- or at least I can say that I don't think I'm getting enough extraction by using that rate. The best NEIPA I've made so far was 1.5 ounces per gallon for both hot and cold side, for a total of 18 ounces in a 6-gallon batch. But perhaps as my processes improve I can scale that down -- we will see.
 
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No one is saying what he does is bad/wrong. I just wanted to make sure proper attribution was occurring. Scott is providing great literature reviews (not an easy task), he just isn’t really performing original research. As a scientist myself, it’s just a minor pet peeve.

No worries, but as a non-scientist, I would much rather read Scott's articles and let him do the tough work of reading those studies!
 
Good stuff, but sure makes me appreciate Janish even more. Could someone tell me what 800 g/hl means? And better yet, how many ounces per gallon that translates to?

grams/hectoliter

hectoliter = 100 liters

1 gram per 1 hectoliter would be 1 gram per 100 liters

1 gram = 0.035274 ounce
1 liter = 0.264172 gallon
1 hectoliter = 26.4172 gallon

800 g/1 hl = 28.2192 ounces / 26.4172 gallons = 1.0682 oz/gal ??

Someone check my maths, please, I haven't done this for ages (and I had a beautiful teacher happily checking my work)!
 
grams/hectoliter

hectoliter = 100 liters

1 gram per 1 hectoliter would be 1 gram per 100 liters

1 gram = 0.035274 ounce
1 liter = 0.264172 gallon
1 hectoliter = 26.4172 gallon

800 g/1 hl = 28.2192 ounces / 26.4172 gallons or 1.068213133867329 oz/gal ??

Someone check my maths, please, I haven't done this since College and that was ages ago (and I had a beautiful professor happily checking my work)!

Thanks, a few others have arrived at that number too. So, a bit more than 1 ounce per gallon for dry hopping. (See my discussion above.) I should note that the range was 400 - 800 g/hl for optimal dry hopping. I assume we'd want the high end for NEIPA's (the study was not just for NEIPA's).

The author says that dry hopping above that rate is a waste of hops, because the relationship is not linear. Adding more dry hops above a certain level does not result in more aroma/flavor, as others have noted in this thread.

(In my post above, I note that I personally feel 1.5 might be the right rate for me, but I am still dialing in my processes and perhaps I will be able to lower the amounts eventually. I tried lowering the amounts for my last NEIPA, and it ended up tasting like a flavorful DIPA, which was fine, but not what I am trying to brew.)

I have not the read the other studies by Shellhammer yet -- that dry hopping one caught my eye first. I wonder if he or anyone else has done a hot side study? What is the max hot side hops before we are wasting them? Extraction should be higher on the hot side, right? So maybe we can/should use less hops? Or, maybe we can use MORE and get more flavor?! (I generally assume 50:50 split, so equal amounts hot and cold side --but I very much want to learn more and hear other folks thoughts about this.)

On a related note, in the new BYO Mag (May - June), in the letters section, a writer asked if 8 ounces of dry hops in a 5-gallon NEIPA recipe in the previous magazine was a mistake. The recipe editor said that 8 ounces was correct, and that some commercial breweries were using the equivalent of 27 ounces of hops total in a 5 gallon batch!

Shellhammer would say they are wasting hops, but I found that very interesting... Of course, just cuz commercial breweries do something, it doesn't mean it's the right way to go. But I'd sure love to know what brewery is using that much! If it's Toppling Goliath or a brewery that is making NEIPA's I love, it would sure make me increase my amounts.
 
I have found that this number falls in line with what I do but i have gone less..say 3 oz total dry hop with great results as well...I think we also have to take into consideration that while dry hopping provides a ton of aroma...so does the whirlpool...hence great results at the lower end with a nice size whirlpool...

I def think hot side hops are important...but I'm not sure using large amounts is necessarily beneficial either...I know some big beer companies utilize this technique..(I.e.dogfish head in 60 min)and undeniably that is a great beer but in comparison to a new england it falls short in all categories as far as impact goes...here is a very lengthy and technical podcast from beer smith witch touches on a lot but mentions at the 10 minutes left mark in boil if you add hops at this point...50% of oils are lost due to boil...intresting podcast though..


And check out this beer from Grimm...https://grimmales.com/beer/maximum-delight/ They have stated that they hopped this beer at 8lbs/bbl...which in homebrew terms equates to at least 21oz in a 5 gal. batch...while I'm a firm believer in more is not necessarily more...this beer was absolutely dynamite...it just exploded with scent the second I opened it and the flavor followed suit...now the hops used were obviously stellar hops so that was part of it but I wonder would the beer still be as explosive if hopped at "normal" levels...idk.. but darn it this really makes ya think[emoji848]
 
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I have found that this number falls in line with what I do but i have gone less..say 3 oz total dry hop with great results as well...I think we also have to take into consideration that while dry hopping provides a ton of aroma...so does the whirlpool...hence great results at the lower end with a nice size whirlpool...

I def think hot side hops are important...but I'm not sure using large amounts is necessarily beneficial either...I know some big beer companies utilize this technique..(I.e.dogfish head in 60 min)and undeniably that is a great beer but in comparison to a new england it falls short in all categories as far as impact goes...here is a very lengthy and technical podcast from beer smith witch touches on a lot but mentions at the 10 minutes left mark in boil if you add hops at this point...50% of oils are lost due to boil...intresting podcast though..

And check out this beer from Grimm...https://grimmales.com/beer/maximum-delight/ They have stated that they hopped this beer at 8lbs/bbl...which in homebrew terms equates to at least 21oz in a 5 gal. batch...while I'm a firm believer in more is not necessarily more...this beer was absolutely dynamite...it just exploded with scent the second I opened it and the flavor followed suit...now the hops used were obviously stellar hops so that was part of it but I wonder would the beer still be as explosive if hopped at "normal" levels...idk.. but darn it this really makes ya think[emoji848]



Whoa, that Grimm beer does sound tasty!

That 21 ounces in a 5-gallon equivalent is also interesting if commercial breweries have higher extraction levels due to more surface area. I don't know whether that's true or not, but if it is, then it makes a person think even more about upping the hops at the homebrew level....

Hot side is more complicated, and probably needs a bunch of studies to figure out the max. My current plan (brewing tomorrow night!) is to do a 1 ounce addition at 20, then 4 ounces at 200, and another 4 at 175. (So, 9 ounces hot side and 9 ounces cold side for 18 ounces total for 6-gallon batch.)

So, maybe I can assume 45% loss of hop oil for the 20 min, and maybe 25% loss at 200 degree whirlpool. Certainly a lot less for the 175 whirlpool -- in theory, close to 0% loss.

So.... what does this all tell me? Hmmm... Maybe to push more into the 175 whirlpool for more flavor? But I need the earlier additions for the bittering. I could move more to the boil or add earlier. But it makes me wonder if I should just increase the 175 whirlpool amounts; however that would be pushing my beer to 20 ounces total hops. Could end up.... wait for it... quite Grimm. ;0)
 
I was talking to a guy who went from homebrewing to professional. He said the biggest take away he's had (and he's worked at some good hop makers in the Chicagoland area) is stop putting anything that resembles flavor hops in your boil. Drop a bitter charge and dry hop the crap out of it.
 
Thanks, a few others have arrived at that number too. So, a bit more than 1 ounce per gallon for dry hopping. (See my discussion above.) I should note that the range was 400 - 800 g/hl for optimal dry hopping. I assume we'd want the high end for NEIPA's (the study was not just for NEIPA's).

The author says that dry hopping above that rate is a waste of hops, because the relationship is not linear. Adding more dry hops above a certain level does not result in more aroma/flavor, as others have noted in this thread.

(In my post above, I note that I personally feel 1.5 might be the right rate for me, but I am still dialing in my processes and perhaps I will be able to lower the amounts eventually. I tried lowering the amounts for my last NEIPA, and it ended up tasting like a flavorful DIPA, which was fine, but not what I am trying to brew.)

I have not the read the other studies by Shellhammer yet -- that dry hopping one caught my eye first. I wonder if he or anyone else has done a hot side study? What is the max hot side hops before we are wasting them? Extraction should be higher on the hot side, right? So maybe we can/should use less hops? Or, maybe we can use MORE and get more flavor?! (I generally assume 50:50 split, so equal amounts hot and cold side --but I very much want to learn more and hear other folks thoughts about this.)

On a related note, in the new BYO Mag (May - June), in the letters section, a writer asked if 8 ounces of dry hops in a 5-gallon NEIPA recipe in the previous magazine was a mistake. The recipe editor said that 8 ounces was correct, and that some commercial breweries were using the equivalent of 27 ounces of hops total in a 5 gallon batch!

Shellhammer would say they are wasting hops, but I found that very interesting... Of course, just cuz commercial breweries do something, it doesn't mean it's the right way to go. But I'd sure love to know what brewery is using that much! If it's Toppling Goliath or a brewery that is making NEIPA's I love, it would sure make me increase my amounts.

Regarding the Shellhammer dry hop article, they only used Cascade (I believe) and the take away was that dry hopping above a certain rate resulted in increased floral/tea flavors (not citrus).

However, we simply cannot extrapolate that result to other hop varietals!
 
I was talking to a guy who went from homebrewing to professional. He said the biggest take away he's had (and he's worked at some good hop makers in the Chicagoland area) is stop putting anything that resembles flavor hops in your boil. Drop a bitter charge and dry hop the crap out of it.

Can't argue. I haven't been using any hops in the boil, but one of my pals said he wished my NEIPA was a touch more bitter. So, I added one ounce of Citra at 30, and it seemed to work pretty well. The bitterness seemed a little smoother and in the background.

But I also could get more bitterness by adding more to the 200 degree whirlpool... (I have a ton to learn about how to get the bitterness to show up a different times; I can say that I don't like a very bitter finish for this style.)

If you see that guy again, could you gather some intel on his recommended whirlpool times, lengths, and amounts of hops compared to cold side/dry hops?

As Janish & others are saying, a lot of hop oils are going to be stripped during fermentation. In his latest recipe in BYO he doesn't steep very long (about 10 minutes) and only at 200 and 185 if I recall. My question, I think, is that if a lot of hop oils are going to be stripped, does that mean we should try to get as much in there as possible, so a lot will remain? (And of course also dry hop -- both are necessary.)

It will probably be in his book (if it ever comes out!), but I'm not sure why he steeps for such a short time. Is that all that is needed for max extraction? He does say that studies show that the most citrusy flavors happen at the 200 whirlpool, which challenges the process that many people use, which is to steep at 175. So much to learn and think about!
 
Can't argue. I haven't been using any hops in the boil, but one of my pals said he wished my NEIPA was a touch more bitter. So, I added one ounce of Citra at 30, and it seemed to work pretty well. The bitterness seemed a little smoother and in the background.

But I also could get more bitterness by adding more to the 200 degree whirlpool... (I have a ton to learn about how to get the bitterness to show up a different times; I can say that I don't like a very bitter finish for this style.)

If you see that guy again, could you gather some intel on his recommended whirlpool times, lengths, and amounts of hops compared to cold side/dry hops?

As Janish & others are saying, a lot of hop oils are going to be stripped during fermentation. In his latest recipe in BYO he doesn't steep very long (about 10 minutes) and only at 200 and 185 if I recall. My question, I think, is that if a lot of hop oils are going to be stripped, does that mean we should try to get as much in there as possible, so a lot will remain? (And of course also dry hop -- both are necessary.)

It will probably be in his book (if it ever comes out!), but I'm not sure why he steeps for such a short time. Is that all that is needed for max extraction? He does say that studies show that the most citrusy flavors happen at the 200 whirlpool, which challenges the process that many people use, which is to steep at 175. So much to learn and think about!

I have been splitting my whirlpool hops up for FO, 170 and 140 additions, just to cover all bases haha.
 
In the podcast I recently listened to from brewer/co-owner of Triple Crossing in Richmond he said they used about 1lb per bbl in the whirlpool(~0.5 oz per gallon). He was then asked about dry hop, and he either said they used the same amount or 2x(I couldn't completely understand him). He said they use nothing in the boil. Assuming it was 2x in the dry hop that's 1.5 oz/gallon total between whirlpool + dry hop, or about 7.5 oz for a 5 gallon batch. Their beer was unreal, murky as F and flavor explosion.

I've seen TH Julius listed at about 3.5lb per barrel which is about the same total hop amount per gallon(1.75oz/gallon). I have no idea what differences there are in utilization between commercial and homebrew scales so maybe homebrewers would need to bump it up a little. But either those guys are lying to us, or you don't really need to go apesh!t with the hops if your grain bill is right and those hop oils aren't dropping out of suspension.

One big takeaway I also got from that podcast was hop freshness is key. He only wants to use the freshest hops and tries to never open a bag for the first time and not use all of it. He said if he opened hops that he didn't think were that great he'd put them in the whirlpool, so obviously he feels the dryhop is the show.
 
I have found that this number falls in line with what I do but i have gone less..say 3 oz total dry hop with great results as well...I think we also have to take into consideration that while dry hopping provides a ton of aroma...so does the whirlpool...hence great results at the lower end with a nice size whirlpool...

I def think hot side hops are important...but I'm not sure using large amounts is necessarily beneficial either...I know some big beer companies utilize this technique..(I.e.dogfish head in 60 min)and undeniably that is a great beer but in comparison to a new england it falls short in all categories as far as impact goes...here is a very lengthy and technical podcast from beer smith witch touches on a lot but mentions at the 10 minutes left mark in boil if you add hops at this point...50% of oils are lost due to boil...intresting podcast though..


And check out this beer from Grimm...https://grimmales.com/beer/maximum-delight/ They have stated that they hopped this beer at 8lbs/bbl...which in homebrew terms equates to at least 21oz in a 5 gal. batch...while I'm a firm believer in more is not necessarily more...this beer was absolutely dynamite...it just exploded with scent the second I opened it and the flavor followed suit...now the hops used were obviously stellar hops so that was part of it but I wonder would the beer still be as explosive if hopped at "normal" levels...idk.. but darn it this really makes ya think[emoji848]
Sorry ..for those that may have watched the podcast...i posted the wrong one...updated with right video now
 
Just sharing my four time attempt NEIPA style. It followed some directions from Braufessor's recipe.
I use a hop bag at the hop stand to minimize trub.
5 gallons.
Pilsen 59%
Oat 17%
Wheat 17%
Munich malt 7%

Biterness: Columbus ~ 25 IBU
Hop stand, DH1 and keg hops: centennial (flameout), citra and Simcoe < 80°C , 50g each.

Yeast: English ale, Levteck brand from Brazil. I get vanilla flavors from this yeast, I think so.

Thanks to everyone for knowledge shared here.[emoji482]
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I've seen TH Julius listed at about 3.5lb per barrel which is about the same total hop amount per gallon(1.75oz/gallon). I have no idea what differences there are in utilization between commercial and homebrew scales so maybe homebrewers would need to bump it up a little. But either those guys are lying to us, or you don't really need to go apesh!t with the hops if your grain bill is right and those hop oils aren't dropping out of suspension.

I’d be willing to bet Julius has a lot less hops then most of the popular NEIPAs out there. Most of that flavor comes from esters. And Julius is an evolving recipe so depending on when that number was quoted it may have changed.
 
I’d be willing to bet Julius has a lot less hops then most of the popular NEIPAs out there. Most of that flavor comes from esters. And Julius is an evolving recipe so depending on when that number was quoted it may have changed.
Though I don’t know for sure since I didn’t see what they released, 3.5 lb/bbl is like 9 oz for a 5 gallon batch. That’s pretty typical and reasonable for a quality commercial version. Juicy Bit, Juice Bomb, each one of these were released right about at the same amount. I wouldn’t think they are using less. I do agree esters have a lot to do with their specific flavor and aroma, yeast is extremely important, but it can’t make up for hops but if certainly elevates them
 
Can't argue. I haven't been using any hops in the boil, but one of my pals said he wished my NEIPA was a touch more bitter. So, I added one ounce of Citra at 30, and it seemed to work pretty well. The bitterness seemed a little smoother and in the background.

But I also could get more bitterness by adding more to the 200 degree whirlpool... (I have a ton to learn about how to get the bitterness to show up a different times; I can say that I don't like a very bitter finish for this style.)

If you see that guy again, could you gather some intel on his recommended whirlpool times, lengths, and amounts of hops compared to cold side/dry hops?

As Janish & others are saying, a lot of hop oils are going to be stripped during fermentation. In his latest recipe in BYO he doesn't steep very long (about 10 minutes) and only at 200 and 185 if I recall. My question, I think, is that if a lot of hop oils are going to be stripped, does that mean we should try to get as much in there as possible, so a lot will remain? (And of course also dry hop -- both are necessary.)

It will probably be in his book (if it ever comes out!), but I'm not sure why he steeps for such a short time. Is that all that is needed for max extraction? He does say that studies show that the most citrusy flavors happen at the 200 whirlpool, which challenges the process that many people use, which is to steep at 175. So much to learn and think about!


Two major things in Janish BYO article that is a departure from my norm - the 200/185 whirlpool for 10min each vs 180 turn off chiller then let naturally chill for 30mins; the other was the grist bill. Instead of trying both I split into two different version to trial first was the whirlpool - I just finished the keg of that....not my jam and will not do again. WAAAYYY too much bitterness for me and it never dissipated.

Next trial was the grist bill - that is ready to be kegged. 15% Malted Oats, 15% Chit Malt, 10% Wheat Malt, 60% 2Row (I used Rahr). Mind you I did not do a "biotransformation dry hop" as I think those are more trouble than worth - I did the dry hop after FG. This might explain what happened when I pulled a sample to check gravity on Day 10 - it looked like it had been lagered. I have never seen wort that clear even in my pilsners. I normally only use 10% flaked wheat, 3% Honey Malt, and the rest 2R for my NEIPA grist. I am curious to see just how "hazy" this thing ends up.

FYI - After reading the Janish BYO article I scoured Scott & Mikes respective blogs and Sapwood social media. It was interesting to learn that absolutely none of their recipes at Sapwood have grist bills like the BYO article nor do they add that many hops in whirlpool and they use MUCH more hops in the dry hop than the BYO article.
 
Thanks! (I meant US gallons.) So, for that study using those hops (I think it was Cascade), Shellhammer was looking at dry hop rates and aroma/flavor. He concluded that using more than that amount (about 1 oz per gallon for dry hopping) does not lead to more aroma/flavor.

4-8g/l is optimal in his system, with that particular hop (Cascade). Anecdotally people seem to think about double that is best for the typical CMG hazy at homebrew scale - probably a combination of lower utilisation and just the kind of chemicals you're trying to extract. The terpenols that give you citrus and floral flavours are much more abundant than the thiols that give you tropical flavours, so you can imagine the dosing will be different.

On an unrelated note, I recently saw a chart comparing beta-glucosidase activity among the Lallemand dry yeasts, BRY-97, Belle and their New England had 50% more activity than the others. BRY-97 is a bit of a peculiar yeast but I suspect people should be using it more. The big advantage with commercial dry yeast of course is that you don't really need to aerate your wort for the benefit of the yeast, as they already have reserves of the sterols that yeast can only make with oxygen. Bit of an overpitch wouldn't hurt though, based on ~20 billion cells per gram. It's notable that eg Cloudwater used to use WLP095 and WLP4000 but now seem to have moved to the Lallemand dry version.
 
Just wanted to let everyone know that I followed up the mineral analysis with beverage analytics of Tree House Julius here: http://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/beverage-analytics-of-tree-house-julius/

Analysis Method Results Units

Color ASBC Beer 10-A 10.8 SRM

pH ASBC Beer 9 4.60 –

Turbidity ASBC Beer 27-B 1821 NTU

Protein Discrete Analyzer 8.1 g/L

ABV ASBC Beer 4 7.10 % v/v

Density ASBC Beer 4 1.01346 g/mL

Specific Gravity ASBC Beer 4 1.01454 –

Apparent Extract ASBC Beer 4 3.72 % w/w

Real Extract ASBC Beer 4 6.18 % w/w

Attenuation ASBC Beer 4 64.7 %

CO2 ASBC Beer 4 4.6 g/L

DO ASBC Beer 4 0.004 mg/L

Bitterness ASBC Beer 23 121 IBU
 
@Northern_Brewer - that’s interesting info. Can you break it down for the lay person on what that beta.... activity means & how it translates to in the glass? What would you say the difference between the BRY-97 & New England would be?
 
10.8 SRM? That seems high right?

Yes, but only if you ignore turbidity and how it impacts the SRM assay. I wrote about it in more detail on my blog post, but in short, I would aim for a calculated SRM of 6-7 (via brewing software - which ignores turbidity) to achieve a measured SRM of 10.8.
 
Yes, but only if you ignore turbidity and how it impacts the SRM assay. I wrote about it in more detail on my blog post, but in short, I would aim for a calculated SRM of 6-7 (via brewing software - which ignores turbidity) to achieve a measured SRM of 10.8.

That's right about where I am at
 
@Northern_Brewer - that’s interesting info. Can you break it down for the lay person on what that beta.... activity means & how it translates to in the glass? What would you say the difference between the BRY-97 & New England would be?

Short answer is that Beta-glucosidase enzyme can liberate aromatic compounds (from hops) that would otherwise not have had an aromatic contribution. Most brewing Sacc strains are lacking in this area (strong suit of Brett strains though).

See slides 6-7 of this pdf:
https://cdn.uclouvain.be/public/Exports reddot/inbr/documents/presentation-luk-daenen.pdf
 
Next NEIPA Recipe- I want to go after that crazy color Electric Brewery is putting out. Has anyone know what base malts these guys may use to get so bright and neon light color. I am thinking all pilsen malt and flaked oats and flaked rice.
47196628_125452618461484_1792188905862294886_n(1).jpg
 
Next NEIPA Recipe- I want to go after that crazy color Electric Brewery is putting out. Has anyone know what base malts these guys may use to get so bright and neon light color. I am thinking all pilsen malt and flaked oats and flaked rice.View attachment 622868
Head looks pretty tight so it might also be flaked wheat or barely
 
Next NEIPA Recipe- I want to go after that crazy color Electric Brewery is putting out. Has anyone know what base malts these guys may use to get so bright and neon light color. I am thinking all pilsen malt and flaked oats and flaked rice.View attachment 622868
Definetly nice and bright...I'd have to agree with pilsner malt...two row or golden promise being the only other options...they are all basically 2 srm...the percentage of either of those two is more likely to be a bigger factor...they may make up a smaller portion of there grain bill than a "typical" IPA and then they just fill in the remainder with oats or wheat or rice as you suggested...the beer I just made is projected to come in at 4.4 SRM...67% golden promise...20%malted oats...7% flaked barley and 7% flaked wheat...while the g.p. ,wheat, and barley all have an srm of 2 the oats are a 1...so again I think your percentage is going to come into play more so than actual grain choice...
 
Definetly nice and bright...I'd have to agree with pilsner malt...two row or golden promise being the only other options...they are all basically 2 srm...the percentage of either of those two is more likely to be a bigger factor...they may make up a smaller portion of there grain bill than a "typical" IPA and then they just fill in the remainder with oats or wheat or rice as you suggested...the beer I just made is projected to come in at 4.4 SRM...67% golden promise...20%malted oats...7% flaked barley and 7% flaked wheat...while the g.p. ,wheat, and barley all have an srm of 2 the oats are a 1...so again I think your percentage is going to come into play more so than actual grain choice...

I believe GP is 3 Lovibond, which is not insignificant with this style, just FYI.
 
Definetly nice and bright...I'd have to agree with pilsner malt...two row or golden promise being the only other options...they are all basically 2 srm...the percentage of either of those two is more likely to be a bigger factor...they may make up a smaller portion of there grain bill than a "typical" IPA and then they just fill in the remainder with oats or wheat or rice as you suggested...the beer I just made is projected to come in at 4.4 SRM...67% golden promise...20%malted oats...7% flaked barley and 7% flaked wheat...while the g.p. ,wheat, and barley all have an srm of 2 the oats are a 1...so again I think your percentage is going to come into play more so than actual grain choice...

I've been creeping them on instagram to see if they accidentally slip any info on the recipes, and most of their beers the say 40-50% oats(type not specified). That seem nuts to me, i have never used more than the low 20's percent range.

Has anyone ever tried a 50% flaked oat grain bill for a NEIPA??
 
I've been creeping them on instagram to see if they accidentally slip any info on the recipes, and most of their beers the say 40-50% oats(type not specified). That seem nuts to me, i have never used more than the low 20's percent range.

Has anyone ever tried a 50% flaked oat grain bill for a NEIPA??
Not 50% but that last beer I posted was like 32% malted oats and then 10% flaked barley (rechecked my numbers, was incorrect in my original post) big body but soft and creamy
 
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Not 50% but that last beer I posted was like 32% malted wheat and then 10% flaked barley (rechecked my numbers, was incorrect in my original post) big body but soft and creamy
Edit on behalf of @Dgallo...32% malted oats...not wheat...and I'd say they are using malted oats and not flaked oats...
 
I didn’t consider malted oats... hmm that may be it. They are 4*Lovibond that’s pretty light too.

Are the considered a base malt or specialty malt?
 
I didn’t consider malted oats... hmm that may be it. They are 4*Lovibond that’s pretty light too.

Are the considered a base malt or specialty malt?
Color actually ranges from like 1.7* l - 4* l...and it is considered a base malt...it def provides a ton of body and creaminess based on @Dgallo beer and my post boil wort and hydro samples...
 
I didn’t consider malted oats... hmm that may be it. They are 4*Lovibond that’s pretty light too.

Are the considered a base malt or specialty malt?
The malted oats is a better call over flaked oats when your using them in a high percentage of the grain bill for 2 reasons. The first reason is the mash, malted oats has husk which will help prevent stuck sparges like you would see using that much flaked oats. The second reason goes to the size of the molecular proteins. Flaked oats have larger molecular protein and will actually floc out much quicker than malted oats, pulling hop oils and compounds that are positively attracted down with them.
 
The malted oats is a better call over flaked oats when your using them in a high percentage of the grain bill for 2 reasons. The first reason is the mash, malted oats has husk which will help prevent stuck sparges like you would see using that much flaked oats. The second reason goes to the size of the molecular proteins. Flaked oats have larger molecular protein and will actually floc out much quicker than malted oats, pulling hop oils and compounds that are positively attracted down with them.

Can you clarify what you mean by larger molecular proteins? Like the flaking process causing protein aggregation? Or is it a higher percentage of protein? Thanks!
 
Can you clarify what you mean by larger molecular proteins? Like the flaking process causing protein aggregation? Or is it a higher percentage of protein? Thanks!
The malting process degrades the proteins of grains and actual causes them to become smaller. Unmalted grains since they aren’t degrading will have a higher molecular weight. Flaked oats are unmalted. This comes from “Ambiguous Impact of Wheat Gluten Proteins on the Colloidal Haze of Wheat Beers. (2003). Journal of the American Society of Brewing Chemists. doi:10.1094/asbcj-61”. Janish outlines it here;
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