New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[BeachBeerBoo]

Does oxidation affect flavor or just color?

Mine is a bit brown, but tastes great IMO. Fermented in glass carboy, transfered to keg via autosiphon, purged headspace 5-6x times with CO2. I didn't do anything special to avoid exposure to ambient air.

Color seems to match fermenter color, so I'm guessing my brown haze is due to grain bill and/or water chemistry rather than oxidation?

 

[GnenieGone]

Have a plan to build in a closed transfer system. If this work out, only air the beer should see after kettle transfer is dh at day 2-3 fermentation and in the pint glass. Give me a month or so to report back..

 

[pshankstar]

Have a plan to build in a closed transfer system. If this work out, only air the beer should see after kettle transfer is dh at day 2-3 fermentation and in the pint glass. Give me a month or so to report back..

I was debating on fermenting my NE IPA in two corny kegs then transfer it to a single serving keg, but decided against it this time around. Its finishing up in my fast ferment conical. It does have limited exposure since the only time I open the fermenter was to dry hop it. I do not have it setup for a closed transfer, but will limit it by pushing Star San out of the serving keg and fill it with minimal splashing. I think when I brew this again, I will split the batch into two corny kegs and do a closed transfer. I'll be curious to hear your thoughts and will share my thoughts when I get around to doing it.

 

[Braufessor]

I have also considered doing this - just have not gotten around to it. I have solidified a process for my lagers and my sours where I brew one batch of beer, keep topping up to keep my boil at 8 gallons, and in the end, I end up using 2 x 5 gallon kegs as fermenters, each of which will give me 4.25-4.5 gallons of finished beer into serving kegs. In essence, I can make one batch of beer, get 8-9 gallons of beer to serve. Basically, this is what I do -

*I convert my normal recipe up to an 8 gallon batch (as that is what I finish with).

*I project it out to a 9.5 gallon batch for grain bill/gravity.

*I use the 9.5 gallon grain bill in the 8 gallon batch (so, I am finishing with 8 gallons of wort that is at a higher gravity than I want in the finished beer.)

* I have 2 fermenting kegs set up with shorter/bent dip tubes and screens over the dip tubes. I fill them with star san to sanitize and push it out - so they are ready to go.

*I boil RO water and add 3/4 gallon of boiling water to each fermenting keg, seal lid back up - I try to do this early on in the process so the water can cool down. I put them outside (cold) or in my keezer to help chill them back down.

* As I boil, I continue to top it back up to the 8 gallon mark (in my 10 gallon kettle). I have boiling water in my HLT so that I am not continually dropping the temp.

* I hop and do other additions with the knowledge that this single batch of beer is going to become two batches of beer.

*In the end, I have 8 gallons of beer that is of higher gravity than I want, and somewhat over-hopped. I chill it, and then I add3.75 gallons of wort to each keg that already has .75 gallons of water - dilutes it back to 4.5 gallons of beer - which leaves about enough head space for fermentation.

*I pull the poppets on the kegs, and use CO2 disconnect that has the "insides" take out as well, and tubing as a blow off tube. (I never really have to worry about blow off with lagers (and actually fill them to about 4.75 gallons each). Fruited sours blow off pretty good though and not having poppets/or Disconnects with the insides in them allows for debris to get out.

*For my lagers, I switch out the blow off, put in poppets and attach spunding valve to carbonate after about 5-7 days.

*Eventually, I jump the finished beer to serving kegs.

I have not gotten things in order yet to convert my NE IPA to this method - but it sure works great on my lagers, and is an awesome way to end up with more beer from one batch. I have some 3 gallon kegs too, so, in terms of a NEIPA, where there would be more loss and gunk than in a lager - I could probably do this with 2 x 5 gallon keg fermenters and then jump to a 5 gallon and a 3 gallon keg for serving vessels.

It is a bit of trial and error to dial in gravity, pH, hopping, etc - and might take 2-3 batches to really get it right where you want it - but it definitely works nice.

 

[centrical]

Checking for understanding. You have another keg with water or starsans that is used to fill through the IN line then pushed back put after.

no - just open up your keg. After cleaning it, fill it *to the brim* with starsan/water. close it. click a gas line onto the "in", and a tap onto the "out". open the tap, start pressure and push all of the liquid out. You now have a keg completely void of O2, full of CO2.

 

[centrical]

IMO his biggest problem regarding oxidation is that he's using an plastic bucket instead of a carboy which is more permeable by O2. I can appreciate that other styles come out fine that way. But, other styles can also be bottled without going south.

I've made good NE IPAs in plastic buckets. Not sure, but it's possible it lets a little O2 in, and maybe it affects the longevity of the beer. But you can definitely get good beer out of it. It build up positive pressure when fermenting, so I'm not convinced it's letting O2 in. Has anyone ever measured DO levels in beer fermented in plastic buckets? Would be interesting.

 

[Andre3000]

All this talk of closed transfer with this style.

Is it REALLY all that necessary? I have a hard time believing that you're oxidizing the beer/losing hop aroma and flavor simply by autosyphoning from the carboy to keg. And assuming you don't splash it, purge off most of the O2 before transfer and again when you carb, I really can't see how the closed transfer would change the beer that drastically.

But what do I know: Does it?

 

[Braufessor]

All this talk of closed transfer with this style.

Is it REALLY all that necessary? I have a hard time believing that you're oxidizing the beer/losing hop aroma and flavor simply by autosyphoning from the carboy to keg. And assuming you don't splash it, purge off most of the O2 before transfer and again when you carb, I really can't see how the closed transfer would change the beer that drastically.

But what do I know: Does it?

It can have a negative affect for sure.... especially a beer like this. That said - I DON'T do closed transfer from primary to my serving keg with this beer. The main reason is that I had more trouble with clogging things up and long transfers - and in the end, I felt I was almost making things worse than the streamlined process I had been using.

I do take many precautions to reduce oxygen as much as possible with moving this beer though. And, in my experience, the process I use works. Worth noting however, I am usually finishing kegs of this beer by 5 weeks from brew day.

Whatever process you are using, it is imperative that you find something for your set up that minimizes opportunity for oxygen exposure to a minimum.

 

[pearljam1984]

Brew day went off well. Pitched 1318 at about 66 degrees. OG was at 1.058, which was a little lower than expected but close. First time using the new mash tun. Not dialed in yet.

On another note- I have successfully used buckets for fermentation and not had an issue with oxidation. The couple times I have had the issue with oxidation is when kegging and clogging dip tube. Having to open it back up as a last resort. Resulted in batch going bad. Fermentation buckets work great while waiting to upgrade.

Tested gravity this evening and it was at 1.021. That’s about 60 hours post pitch. I fermented on the lower end. Hoping it isn’t stuck and can get it lower. Moving to 70-72 temp. Airlock has slowed.

I haven’t used 1318 in a while. Is this about right for 60hrs post pitch?

 

[SanPancho]

In essence, I can make one batch of beer, get 8-9 gallons of beer to serve. Basically, this is what I do -
obably do this with 2 x 5 gallon keg fermenters and then jump to a 5 gallon and a 3 gallon keg for serving vessels.

It is a bit of trial and error to dial in gravity, pH, hopping, etc - and might take 2-3 batches to really get it right where you want it - but it definitely works nice.

have you considered not putting the extra water in kegs, but chilling it down and using it at flameout to get 20-30 degrees knocked off the temp immediately. no waiting for whirlpool temps, it'd be immediate.

 

[ba-brewer]

Tested gravity this evening and it was at 1.021. That’s about 60 hours post pitch. I fermented on the lower end. Hoping it isn’t stuck and can get it lower. Moving to 70-72 temp. Airlock has slowed.

I haven’t used 1318 in a while. Is this about right for 60hrs post pitch?

I have only used it once on a low gravity high mash bitters, I got about 63% attenuation in 48hrs post pitch with 70% after 8 days. I fermented at 71F.

Wyeast lists the flocculation as high so I would not be surprised if a lot of the yeast might drop and the fermentation started slowing down after a few days.

 

[pshankstar]

My hydrometer sample poured into a glass for a picture. It’s at 1.016 for a couple of days now. OG was 1.069. The yeast is a blend of WY1318 and OYL-052. The sample tastes good for a warm a uncarbonated beer. I plan to keg it tomorrow!

 

[GnenieGone]

All this talk of closed transfer with this style.

Is it REALLY all that necessary? I have a hard time believing that you're oxidizing the beer/losing hop aroma and flavor simply by autosyphoning from the carboy to keg. And assuming you don't splash it, purge off most of the O2 before transfer and again when you carb, I really can't see how the closed transfer would change the beer that drastically.

But what do I know: Does it?

Yeah, I was sceptical also. But after dumping 5 in a row I'm turning. Only style I'm having a problem with....I'll know more ina month or so.

 

[Braufessor]

have you considered not putting the extra water in kegs, but chilling it down and using it at flameout to get 20-30 degrees knocked off the temp immediately. no waiting for whirlpool temps, it'd be immediate.

I have - but, I am mainly doing this with lagers - so, it works even better to chill the wort down to 55-60 degrees with my chiller and then dump it into the kegs where the water I added is in the 30's... or even starting to freeze - I have been setting the kegs outside for 3+ hours while I am brewing so that water is damn cold (winter here) by the time I add the wort - that drops the temp down to high 40's/50 degrees immediately.

 

[Andre3000]

Yeah, I was sceptical also. But after dumping 5 in a row I'm turning. Only style I'm having a problem with....I'll know more ina month or so.

Do you keg?

One thing I really do believe in, though, is the potential for oxidizing during cold crashing. What I started doing is putting a solid stopper in the carboy with some positive way of keeping it sealed while it cools down. One such method is placing one of those orange carboy caps OVER the solid stopper, fastened with a worm drive clamp. This way you can be sure that no air is being sucked in as the air inside the carboy cools.

I figure if I don't get oxygen in then, and I'm diligent when I transfer to the keg (purge before and after filling) like I mentioned above, then the beer will be minimally exposed to oxygen to the point that it "isn't oxidized".

I'd say my second and current attempt on this beer is 90% of the way I want it and is certainly no where near needing to be dumped so I'm sure there are process differences between us. Or perhaps taste bud differences !

 

[jakturner]

Honestly I've never not keg hopped this style. What don't you like about keg hops? Have you keg hopped with cryo hops?

I have to agree, I got away from keg hopping because of that dank harshness that you can get from it, but keg hopping with cryohops is where it is at. I transfer to keg with bagged cryo and let it sit out over night to extract, then pop it into kegerator the next morning. Leaving it warm over night is probably not needed because cryohops extract so fast, but I ferment in kegs with spunding valve and the beer is cold crashed and carbonated before its jumped to the serving keg.

 

[fragged]

Do you keg?

One thing I really do believe in, though, is the potential for oxidizing during cold crashing. What I started doing is putting a solid stopper in the carboy with some positive way of keeping it sealed while it cools down. One such method is placing one of those orange carboy caps OVER the solid stopper, fastened with a worm drive clamp. This way you can be sure that no air is being sucked in as the air inside the carboy cools.

I figure if I don't get oxygen in then, and I'm diligent when I transfer to the keg (purge before and after filling) like I mentioned above, then the beer will be minimally exposed to oxygen to the point that it "isn't oxidized".

I'd say my second and current attempt on this beer is 90% of the way I want it and is certainly no where near needing to be dumped so I'm sure there are process differences between us. Or perhaps taste bud differences !

Love to hear what some of the other guys are doing about intake when crashing. Obviously if you are crashing in anything stainless steel you're probably not too worried about it, but I'm not there yet.

I use big mouth bubblers mainly (and exclusively when talking neipa now). My worry about those (or any pet material) is about vessel cavitation, fatiging over batches(where it creases during cavitation), and finally,, failing at the bends created during cavitation.

Admittedly, I've never crashed using a sealed PET container, so maybe I'm making too much out of it. Curious what others do is all.

 

[stickyfinger]

I have to agree, I got away from keg hopping because of that dank harshness that you can get from it, but keg hopping with cryohops is where it is at. I transfer to keg with bagged cryo and let it sit out over night to extract, then pop it into kegerator the next morning. Leaving it warm over night is probably not needed because cryohops extract so fast, but I ferment in kegs with spunding valve and the beer is cold crashed and carbonated before its jumped to the serving keg.

wow, this is an encouraging post. You know the off-flavors that pellets in the keg can give but have found relief in using Cryo hops. I'll give them a try in the keg soon. Is 1 oz a good amount?

 

[pearljam1984]

Tested gravity this evening and it was at 1.021. That’s about 60 hours post pitch. I fermented on the lower end. Hoping it isn’t stuck and can get it lower. Moving to 70-72 temp. Airlock has slowed.

I haven’t used 1318 in a while. Is this about right for 60hrs post pitch?

Checked gravity again this evening. Down to 1.014- 75% attenuation with one smack pack and no starter. Didn’t realize 1318 was such a quick worker.

 

[VT_jlee]

wow, this is an encouraging post. You know the off-flavors that pellets in the keg can give but have found relief in using Cryo hops. I'll give them a try in the keg soon. Is 1 oz a good amount?

My recent recipe used 1oz each Citra and Mosaic cryo in the keg, and I thought that was pretty spot on. Here's a post from Mike Tonsmiere where he used the same amount
https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2017/07/cryo-lupulin-neipa-citra-mosaic.html?m=1

 

[stickyfinger]

Checked gravity again this evening. Down to 1.014- 75% attenuation with one smack pack and no starter. Didn’t realize 1318 was such a quick worker.

1318 is also a very reliable attenuator in my experience. never have to worry about it finishing strong.

I am currently doing a split batch with 1272 and 1318. When I opened the smack packs I immediately noticed how fruity the 1318 pack was compared with the 1272. wow, very fruity. peach, apricot, not sure what else, definitely a classic NEIPA yeast.

 

[stickyfinger]

My recent recipe used 1oz each Citra and Mosaic cryo in the keg, and I thought that was pretty spot on. Here's a post from Mike Tonsmiere where he used the same amount
https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2017/07/cryo-lupulin-neipa-citra-mosaic.html?m=1

ok, maybe i'll start with 1 oz and see how it goes. I hate to introduce the oxygen, but, in the name of science!!!

 

[jakturner]

ok, maybe i'll start with 1 oz and see how it goes. I hate to introduce the oxygen, but, in the name of science!!!

I use 1oz but that's in a 3 gallon keg (I ferment in 5g and jump to 3g), but that's a good starting place. On the subject of O2, I water/starsan purge the keg, then hook up the gas to 2 psi, crack the lid and drop the bag in real quick, pressurize to 30 psi to seat the lid, then purge the keg 2-3 times just for fun. Then jump it over.

 

[popquizkid]

Love to hear what some of the other guys are doing about intake when crashing. Obviously if you are crashing in anything stainless steel you're probably not too worried about it, but I'm not there yet.

I use big mouth bubblers mainly (and exclusively when talking neipa now). My worry about those (or any pet material) is about vessel cavitation, fatiging over batches(where it creases during cavitation), and finally,, failing at the bends created during cavitation.

Admittedly, I've never crashed using a sealed PET container, so maybe I'm making too much out of it. Curious what others do is all.

I personally don't recommend crashing using a sealed PET. Your concerns are valid and if the stopper does not pop off when you pull it air will go rushing into the fermenter anyways. I had a stopper blow off in my fermentation chamber during a cold crash and I happened to be down there when it happened. It was really loud and based on how it sounded I am guessing it was not good for the integrity of the plastic fermenter!

I quit cold crashing entirely in the fermenter. Since I dropped the cold crash (and also went low oxygen on hot side) my hop aroma is lasting much, much longer. I currently have a batch that is at 2.5 months in the keg and is still really fresh and delicious.

If I were to cold crash I would capture the co2 from fermentation in some sort of vessel (the destination keg would work) so that when it crashed it just sucked co2 back into fermenter. With my current small ferm chamber that is not an option for me.

 

[GnenieGone]

Do you keg?

One thing I really do believe in, though, is the potential for oxidizing during cold crashing. What I started doing is putting a solid stopper in the carboy with some positive way of keeping it sealed while it cools down. One such method is placing one of those orange carboy caps OVER the solid stopper, fastened with a worm drive clamp. This way you can be sure that no air is being sucked in as the air inside the carboy cools.

I figure if I don't get oxygen in then, and I'm diligent when I transfer to the keg (purge before and after filling) like I mentioned above, then the beer will be minimally exposed to oxygen to the point that it "isn't oxidized".

I'd say my second and current attempt on this beer is 90% of the way I want it and is certainly no where near needing to be dumped so I'm sure there are process differences between us. Or perhaps taste bud differences !

I've kegged and bottled. Both has the same issue. Spent some time at LHBS getting fittings ect, for the conversion to no air transfers. Will brew in a couple days. Technically nither will be NEIPAs. One using WL644 the other a Pliney clone with S-05. But proof of concept will still be valid.

 

[GnenieGone]

Love to hear what some of the other guys are doing about intake when crashing. Obviously if you are crashing in anything stainless steel you're probably not too worried about it, but I'm not there yet.

I use big mouth bubblers mainly (and exclusively when talking neipa now). My worry about those (or any pet material) is about vessel cavitation, fatiging over batches(where it creases during cavitation), and finally,, failing at the bends created during cavitation.

Admittedly, I've never crashed using a sealed PET container, so maybe I'm making too much out of it. Curious what others do is all.

I'm adding a fitting to the lid of my home depot bucket lids to add CO2 every few hours during cold crash and transfers. I have a dual regulator so the keg will also be purged with co2, the line inbetween will be purged with co2. Hopefully this solves my issue. Prior to transfer, I'm adding 1/2oz each of Citra/mosaic cryo hops in knee highs/marbles..then purge the keg 6-10 times prior. May the Beer Gods shine on me after this modification!

 

[grassfeeder]

I step crash so I don't get that suck back.....gradually dial your temp down over 3-4 days until you're good with it.

 

[Andre3000]

I step crash so I don't get that suck back.....gradually dial your temp down over 3-4 days until you're good with it.

What is step crashing and how does it not suck back?

 

[crusader1612]

Haha.
Oxidation from cold crashing.
Nope. Just nope.

 

[brew703]

I posted about a week ago having an oniony off flavor. Well happy to report that flavor has disappeared. Now it's a damn good beer. Not sure what caused it but it was pretty bad in the beginning.
Next time I brew this style I will change up the hops and eliminate Citra completely.
Gonna go with Simcoe and two additional hops. Not sure which ones yet.

 

[grassfeeder]

What is step crashing and how does it not suck back?

I have a controlled temp chamber so I'll start dialing back the temperature gradually versus letting it go from say 72 to 35 like a rock. The gradual reduction hasn't sucked anything back from what I've been able to see. When I start to get to the lower lower temps I have replaced with a solid bung for 24 hours.

 

[Braufessor]

I posted about a week ago having an oniony off flavor. Well happy to report that flavor has disappeared. Now it's a damn good beer. Not sure what caused it but it was pretty bad in the beginning.
Next time I brew this style I will change up the hops and eliminate Citra completely.
Gonna go with Simco and two additional hops. Not sure which ones yet.

Some other good hops besides citra - Simcoe, Amarillo, Centennial, Mosaic, galaxy, Vic Secret, Azacca..... Falconers Flight Blend is good too.

 

[tld6008]

I'm adding a fitting to the lid of my home depot bucket lids to add CO2 every few hours during cold crash and transfers. I have a dual regulator so the keg will also be purged with co2, the line inbetween will be purged with co2. Hopefully this solves my issue. Prior to transfer, I'm adding 1/2oz each of Citra/mosaic cryo hops in knee highs/marbles..then purge the keg 6-10 times prior. May the Beer Gods shine on me after this modification!

I can't imagine the benefit of cold crashing with a sealed fermenter what do you think happens when you eventually open it up? I do not get air in mine , see #5842 for what I do. The key is to capture enough Co2 created during fermentaiton and use it to relieve the vacuum during cooling.

 

[motosapiens]

I have a controlled temp chamber so I'll start dialing back the temperature gradually versus letting it go from say 72 to 35 like a rock. The gradual reduction hasn't sucked anything back from what I've been able to see. When I start to get to the lower lower temps I have replaced with a solid bung for 24 hours.

that makes sense. i don't know if cold-crashing causes problems, since I only do cold 'fender-benders' to about 50-54 degrees, just to encourage more hop material to drop. i'll probably experiment with even less crashing and see if i can still avoid clogging up my old-school manual siphon rig.

 

[brew703]

Some other good hops besides citra - Simcoe, Amarillo, Centennial, Mosaic, galaxy, Vic Secret, Azacca..... Falconers Flight Blend is good too.

Thanks. I have all except Vic Secret. I'll probably use Simcoe, Amarillo and maybe Falconers Flight.

 

[pshankstar]

Thanks. I have all except Vic Secret. I'll probably use Simcoe, Amarillo and maybe Falconers Flight.

I’m in the same boat with the hops I have. I may use a similar combo in a future batch.

 

[grassfeeder]

that makes sense. i don't know if cold-crashing causes problems, since I only do cold 'fender-benders' to about 50-54 degrees, just to encourage more hop material to drop. i'll probably experiment with even less crashing and see if i can still avoid clogging up my old-school manual siphon rig.

I hear ya, with NEIPA's, I honesty don't really crash them. I transfer to purged keg and I let them "crash" as it carbs. Usually dump the first half pint and Im ready to roll.

 

[Sbe2]

I hear ya, with NEIPA's, I honesty don't really crash them. I transfer to purged keg and I let them "crash" as it carbs. Usually dump the first half pint and Im ready to roll.

Pretty much what I do. Never had a stuck transfer yet.

 

[jivy26]

So I’m 5 brews into NEIPAs and I have it down. I’m kegging another batch Friday and brewing on Saturday. I want to throw Hawaiian Punch powder in during fermentation 6 days in. Idea is to go higher with SO on my mash water treatment additions and then a bit more bitterring then normal to help punch through the extra sugars. Citra and Mosaic for Dry Hop, Amarillo hops for boil addittions.

Anyone have any experience with IPAs and fermentation additions like this?

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

So I’m 5 brews into NEIPAs and I have it down. I’m kegging another batch Friday and brewing on Saturday. I want to throw Hawaiian Punch powder in during fermentation 6 days in. Idea is to go higher with SO on my mash water treatment additions and then a bit more bittering then normal to help punch through the extra sugars.

Anyone have any experience with IPAs and fermentation additions like this?

I read a reddit post about something similar to this however it is not a NEIPA style, it is a sour. But it might give some insight to your question. Here is the link - https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewin...ant_to_share_two_recipes_hawaiian_punch_sour/