New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[cold_crash]

I do huge dryhop doses and never get grassy or unless the hops are bad.

I’m concerned with the methods o2 not because of purging but due to the water your mixing the hops in having a high DO already and or when moving the hops around getting DO. What you’re explaining that they are doing is making a hop tea. Not bad in of itself but it is risky post fermentation and especially especially with this style.

I just literally can’t even phathom Kimmich doing this, atleast the way I’m thinking of it being done. I haven’t heard of anyone doing this since maybe 2014. Not saying no one is but I stay pretty up to date with best EBP of brewing and I just feel like I would have heard of this

Isn’t this high temp of water practically o2 free? I’ve heard that a thermal of that temp kills the o2 present anyways. I’ve used this method with fruit additions before and have gotten DO tested and still get numbers back as low as 5ppb.

I know I read it somewhere, but I have a friend who is a pro brewer and brewed a collab with Alchemist and this was the dry hop method they did, which is how I know the process. Thermal the brink, purge it with co2 and then keep the system as closed as possible. I’m assuming a Bunsen burner would help during the addition of hops to make sure no o2 gets in that way

 

[Dgallo]

Isn’t this high temp of water practically o2 free? I’ve heard that a thermal of that temp kills the o2 present anyways. I’ve used this method with fruit additions before and have gotten DO tested and still get numbers back as low as 5ppb.

I know I read it somewhere, but I have a friend who is a pro brewer and brewed a collab with Alchemist and this was the dry hop method they did, which is how I know the process. Thermal the brink, purge it with co2 and then keep the system as closed as possible. I’m assuming a Bunsen burner would help during the addition of hops to make sure no o2 gets in that way

And your positive this was with hop pellets and not when using spectrum or other cold side hops advance products?

 

[cold_crash]

And your positive this was with hop pellets and not when using spectrum or other cold side hops advance products?

Positive. This collab was done a while back before flowables were really a thing.

 

[beervoid]

I do huge dryhop doses and never get grassy or hop burn unless my process/temps are messed up or the hops are bad.

I’m concerned with the methods o2 not because of purging but due to the water your mixing the hops in having a high DO already and or when moving the hops around getting DO. What you’re explaining that they are doing is making a hop tea. Not bad in of itself but it is risky post fermentation and especially especially with this style.

I just literally can’t even phathom Kimmich doing this, atleast the way I’m thinking of it being done. I haven’t heard of anyone doing this since maybe 2014. Not saying no one is but I stay pretty up to date with best EBP of brewing through reading and the various brewing communities (online and in person) that I feel I would have heard of this being popular again

Good breweries have access to deaereted water whenever DO is a concern, they use it for flushing cans and lines etc.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Pretty interesting actually. I wouldn’t write it off but I also have never heard of someone doing this. It’s unique from other methods, kind of a post or late ferm dip hop. De-aerated water is a thing so I could see this being done with extremely low DO. There are several methods for making de aerated water, I know Firestone made a big investment in a facility to always have it available - I think they actually run co2 thru a water fall kind of thing (my understanding). I might consider trying this with preboiled water and treating it with kmeta or oxblock

 

[NH81!]

Just a side note, I recently started doing the North Park incognito dip hopping method on my IPAs and they have improved dramatically both in aroma and overall flavor

 

[Dwaynehaze]

Just a side note, I recently started doing the North Park incognito dip hopping method on my IPAs and they have improved dramatically both in aroma and overall flavor

What exactly is this process if I could bother you?

 

[cold_crash]

Pretty interesting actually. I wouldn’t write it off but I also have never heard of someone doing this. It’s unique from other methods, kind of a post or late ferm dip hop. De-aerated water is a thing so I could see this being done with extremely low DO. There are several methods for making de aerated water, I know Firestone made a big investment in a facility to always have it available - I think they actually run co2 thru a water fall kind of thing (my understanding). I might consider trying this with preboiled water and treating it with kmeta or oxblock

I used RO water and ended up trying this method - aroma is wicked and flavour is pretty banging too. Letting it condition now but from the samples I’ve had there’s no burn whatsoever. Didn’t de-aerate my water but brought it to ~80°C for the slurry. Will let you know about DO pickup when I test it.

 

[ihavenonickname]

What exactly is this process if I could bother you?

Kelsey from NPBC popularized dip hopping with incognito. Transfer 5% or so of your hot wort into fermenter(60-80C), add incognito so it dissolves well in the fermenter instead of sticking to the side of your kettle.

 

[CyberFox]

.

 

[Langerz]

I'm thinking about using this hop combo, but thought that it'd be a little too dank between Idaho 7 and Strata. Any thoughts there? Also, are all of your hops from YVH? Any cryo in DH?

Second response to this. I went on vacation for a long week and hadn't had one of these in about 10 days. Just poured one and it's significantly more dank than I replied the last time. I still love it but like I said before I like a good amount of dank in my IPAs.

Side note - I also picked up a cold on my vacation so maybe it's just poor tasting ability.

Still my favorite NEIPA I've made though.

 

[YeastFeast]

Tried out Cellar Science - Hazy for the first time. I pitched one pack dry into a 1.055 Strata Mosaic wort. 36 hour lag time. Longest lag time ever in well over 200 batches, but she's ripping now. I've been told it's dry 1318, but I don't see much online about it. Cellar Science website seems like it's written by AI.

Also trying this yeast for the first time. Dumped 2 packs straight in at 68ºF (1.079) and I'm 3.5 hours short of 2 days and nothing! I never use dry yeast so I don't know what to expect but this seems way too long?
Any thoughts on this stuff?
Thanks.

 

[Langerz]

Also trying this yeast for the first time. Dumped 2 packs straight in at 68ºF (1.079) and I'm 3.5 hours short of 2 days and nothing! I never use dry yeast so I don't know what to expect but this seems way too long?
Any thoughts on this stuff?
Thanks.

I used it on my last one. For me it lagged about 10 hours and then was fermenting strong. I would have been really nervous 36-48 hours in.

The beer ended up great but I've read a few other complaints so not sure I'll use it again.

 

[LumberZach]

I'll be brewing in the next few days with Escarpments Foggy London yeast. Pretty excited to use it and see if I can coax some of the supposed bubblegum out of it.

 

[YeastFeast]

I used it on my last one. For me it lagged about 10 hours and then was fermenting strong. I would have been really nervous 36-48 hours in.

The beer ended up great but I've read a few other complaints so not sure I'll use it again.

Bizarre that there can be such a difference?!? I'm not even on the low end of the range (62º-75ºF), I'm right in the middle 68ºF. Did you hydrate? I didn't, just pitched it in (like it said to do on the packet). Not too happy. If it kicks off, OK, fine, but strange.

 

[x22n]

Bizarre that there can be such a difference?!? I'm not even on the low end of the range (62º-75ºF), I'm right in the middle 68ºF. Did you hydrate? I didn't, just pitched it in (like it said to do on the packet). Not too happy. If it kicks off, OK, fine, but strange.

I had zero activity for 48h when I decided to pitch a second pack. Finally it kicked off after ~72h. Never using that yeast again. The beer was ok not great.

I know we are a bunch in this thread who experienced long lag time.

I also tried their Nectar yeast and the lag time was normal at around 12-24h.

 

[YeastFeast]

I had zero activity for 48h when I decided to pitch a second pack. Finally it kicked off after ~72h. Never using that yeast again. The beer was ok not great.

I know we are a bunch in this thread who experienced long lag time.

I also tried their Nectar yeast and the lag time was normal at around 12-24h.

72 hours! That's nuts. I'm a regular liquid yeast starter kind of guy. I usually pitch at dinner time and get up the next morning and it's going crazy. My local supply was out of everything liquid yeast so I went for it with the dry.

 

[wepeeler]

Also trying this yeast for the first time. Dumped 2 packs straight in at 68ºF (1.079) and I'm 3.5 hours short of 2 days and nothing! I never use dry yeast so I don't know what to expect but this seems way too long?
Any thoughts on this stuff?
Thanks.

Junk yeast. Stick with Wyeast or White Labs. I'll never use CS again.

 

[balrog]

72 hours! That's nuts. I'm a regular liquid yeast starter kind of guy. I usually pitch at dinner time and get up the next morning and it's going crazy. My local supply was out of everything liquid yeast so I went for it with the dry.

There is no comparison between a freshly made starter and packs of dry yeast; they just behave differently. And different dry yeasts behave differently than others.

That having been said, 72hr is about as long as I've ever experienced and I agree that it can wear on one's nerves.

 

[Langerz]

Bizarre that there can be such a difference?!? I'm not even on the low end of the range (62º-75ºF), I'm right in the middle 68ºF. Did you hydrate? I didn't, just pitched it in (like it said to do on the packet). Not too happy. If it kicks off, OK, fine, but strange.

I am surprised by the difference too. I did aerate but didn't hydrate. I was going to do both but then read the package and it said no need to aerate or hydrate so I just sprinkled it in dry (was too late not to aerate). Looking back at my tilt data I was a hair above the range at 76 when I pitched. I copied the tilt data below for reference. It's right at 10 hours from the start of the curve to where the gravity starts dropping. It's possible there were a couple hours before this before I set Tilt to start logging to the brewfather app but not much. I do remember for sure this was the first time I used fermentation gas to purge a keg filled with star san. By the time I got up the next morning it was pushed all the star san into a bucket and was bubbling everywhere so definitely not the experience everyone else is mentioning here.

I will say after high krausen it was not the typical fermentation profile I usually see in the tilt data. This one got really linear and jagged where normally it's more like an exponential curve approaching the FG. This did get down to the FG line eventually but took longer than other yeasts I have used. When the line changed to the linear jagged line I got nervous it was going to stall and at that point put a Fermwrap on it to keep the temp up a bit (you can see I have a pretty wide hysteresis on that, maybe should adjust that).

I bought two packs when I got the yeast (I always like to have a back up pack just in case). Not sure I'm going to use the other one. Although this was probably my best NEIPA but I think that was other changes more than the yeast.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I generally prefer using dry yeast, so that’s my bias and I’ve made plenty of great beer over the last few years since I’ve mostly quit dealing with liquid.

I’ve had no trouble with CS hazy and liked the results more than verdant ipa, well maybe equivocal results but I like that it didn’t have a hard time finishing g like verdant. But I would be really annoyed with a 72 hour delay. And wouldn’t want to keep using the yeast if it really was horrible… so I’m open to more evidence.

 

[YeastFeast]

I'm now 2.5 hours short of 3 days from pitching the 2 packs of Cellar Science Hazy. When I look down through the clear porthole in the top, I see clean looking wort with a few pockets here and there of what maybe looks like krausen?? If it is, there's certainly not much and zero pressure has built in the conical so basically nothing. Unbelievable. Going to take a gravity reading at 72 hours just to prove nothing is happening. I'll be surprised if it dropped at all.

 

[YeastFeast]

View attachment 844602

Interesting chart. I don't have one so I don't really know the pattern during fermentation of my beers. ...other than they always ferment out just fine until now

 

[beervoid]

I can attest to the problems with CS Haze, I had a batch ferment super slow with it and another batch threw major fusels. I think they have a QC problem where the viability of the yeast suffers.
The successful batches I managed to brew with it tasted identical to verdant to my pallet, the price difference is too small to make it worth the risk imho.

 

[Shenanigans]

I just ordered an !!g pack of WHC Saturated-Fruity NEIPA Dried Yeast
https://whclab.com/product/dehydrated-saturated-dried-yeast-500g/?v=3a52f3c22ed6

Supposed to be a dry version of LAIII/Imperial Juice
Some commercial breweries in the UK are using it for thier Hazy IPAs.

If I get a chance before my brew season ends in May I'm going to use it to brew something like an Alien Church clone as I have a load of T90 Mosaic and Centennial to use up.

 

[agentbud]

I just ordered an !!g pack of WHC Saturated-Fruity NEIPA Dried Yeast
https://whclab.com/product/dehydrated-saturated-dried-yeast-500g/?v=3a52f3c22ed6

Supposed to be a dry version of LAIII/Imperial Juice
Some commercial breweries in the UK are using it for thier Hazy IPAs.

If I get a chance before my brew season ends in May I'm going to use it to brew something like an Alien Church clone as I have a load of T90 Mosaic and Centennial to use up.

Please post your experience with it after you brew with it. Interested...

 

[aaronm13]

To the A24 Dry Hop users, is this yeast slow to ferment and krausen drops really quick? I brewed Monday and fermentation started really quickly and very vigorous. Before going to work yesterday morning, about 36 hours since pitching my Fermzilla was right to the max with krausen and ripping along but by the time I came home the krausen had completely dropped and bubbling was down to only every few seconds. As of today the gravity is hovering around 1.025-30 going by my Tilt. Is this strain slow to finish out? aiming to finish around 1.018-20 max.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Tilt.

Whats the actual gravity?

 

[aaronm13]

Whats the actual gravity?

took a hydrometer reading there and it's 1.022, Tilt is 1.024 so pretty close. Thats a really fast ferment, 10.80-22 in 72 hours since pitching. Hopefully can eek out a few more points.

 

[Genuine]

Funny that CellarScience's Hazy was mentioned, I picked up 3 packs from a closing (sadly) LHBS to give it a whirl however I think I'll stick to Verdant for my next batch. My birthday is coming up next month and I brew 5 gallons of NEIPA for the party. I usually try to mix up grains/hops/yeast variation from year to year so here's what I'll be brewing this weekend. I have a few random malts I'll be getting rid of which is why you see such a grain bill.

59.7% 2-Row Pale
14.2% Flaked Oats
9.5% Malted White Wheat
6.8% Carapills
5.4% Oat Malt
3.1% Honey Malt
1.4% Crystal 15

Mashing around 156F, Shooting for a O.G. of around 1.072 and an ABV of 7%..hoping to end around 1.020 FG to keep some residual sweetness.

For hops - I'm debating if I should do a quater oz of magnum @ 60...however as written I have:

1oz of Citra at 10 Min
180 degree Whirlpool for 30 minutes containing:
2oz Citra
2oz El Dorado
2oz Mosiac (for a bit of dank)
1oz Centennial
(this is my usual hot side addition amount)

For the dry hop I'm thinking
4oz of Nectaron
3oz of Citra
2oz of El Dorado.

Fermenting with Verdant.


Last year I made one with only 4 oz on the hot side and the rest on the dry hop and was pretty pleased. What are your thoughts? What would you change?

https://share.brewfather.app/NtmQJkcukfeqTb

 

[Ulisses4677]

Funny that CellarScience's Hazy was mentioned, I picked up 3 packs from a closing (sadly) LHBS to give it a whirl however I think I'll stick to Verdant for my next batch. My birthday is coming up next month and I brew 5 gallons of NEIPA for the party. I usually try to mix up grains/hops/yeast variation from year to year so here's what I'll be brewing this weekend. I have a few random malts I'll be getting rid of which is why you see such a grain bill.

59.7% 2-Row Pale
14.2% Flaked Oats
9.5% Malted White Wheat
6.8% Carapills
5.4% Oat Malt
3.1% Honey Malt
1.4% Crystal 15

Shooting for a O.G. of around 1.072 and an ABV of 7%..hoping to end around 1.020 FG to keep some residual sweetness.

For hops - I'm debating if I should do a quater oz of magnum @ 60...however as written I have:

1oz of Citra at 10 Min
180 degree Whirlpool for 30 minutes containing:
2oz Citra
2oz El Dorado
2oz Mosiac (for a bit of dank)
1oz Centennial
(this is my usual hot side addition amount)

For the dry hop I'm thinking
4oz of Nectaron
3oz of Citra
2oz of El Dorado.

Fermenting with Verdant.


Last year I made one with only 4 oz on the hot side and the rest on the dry hop and was pretty pleased. What are your thoughts? What would you change?

https://share.brewfather.app/NtmQJkcukfeqTb

In my honest opinion I think less is more. The grainbill has a lot going on. You’ll definitely achieve residual sweetness if that’s the goal.

 

[Genuine]

In my honest opinion I think less is more. The grainbill has a lot going on. You’ll definitely achieve residual sweetness if that’s the goal.

I completely agree with you. I usually keep it to 2-3 other grains normally but figured I'd try to use up small amount of left over grain.

 

[anteater8]

Well everybody, I'm happy to report that I brewed a really ****ing good hazy IPA!

This is my second attempt at a Brujos style, and its a huge improvement from the first one which was already pretty good. Bottom line is I really think the maltodextrin made a big difference, I definitely pick that up quality in Brujos's beers now that I can make the connection.

Sweet sugary mango, pineapple and passionfruit in the nose. Creamy mango, pineapple, papaya, slight melon in the flavor. Body is full and lucious, it really compliments the creaminess in the flavor. Finishes with a pretty nice balance, with almost a hop tingling feeling on the tongue (not hop burn, but not typical bitterness either) to balance out the body and sweetness. Overall this is one of my best IPAs ever. I love the grain bill, hop combo, yeast profile, everything.

10 lb Pils
5 lb Malted oat
3 lb Wheat
3 lb Flaked oat
1 lb Maltodextrine

0.15 oz Warrior 60 min (6 IBU)
2 oz Citra WP @ 170 (20 min)
2 oz Nelson Lupo WP @ 170 (20 min)
2 oz Citra Lupomax DH
2 oz Nelson DH
8 oz Motueka DH

Imperial Barbarian

90:260 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.074
F.G. = 1.019
ABV = 7.2%

 

[ihavenonickname]

That’s great man! My next hazy is going to be along these lines can you rec some more details? It’s really not that huge of a hop load! Did this yield 5 gallons finished in the keg? I’ve had beers finish at 1018 and 1020 before that I loved, so you think this is all the malto accomplished? Or is there still reason to use it even if you can get that FG without it? Did you target and adjust ph? I’ve been adding whirlpool lactic acid lately although I recall Brujos wasn’t very aggressive about a low finishing ph.
Did you do a cold and short dry hop post ferment?

 

[Shenanigans]

Please post your experience with it after you brew with it. Interested...

Here's a video from Brew Bros who do a direct comparison with using LAIII and WHC saturated in the same recipe.
Will probably give you much better insight than I can.
As I would only be with comparing them on taste memory 1.5 years apart
However when I do brew with it I will report back with my impressions.

 

[anteater8]

That’s great man! My next hazy is going to be along these lines can you rec some more details? It’s really not that huge of a hop load! Did this yield 5 gallons finished in the keg? I’ve had beers finish at 1018 and 1020 before that I loved, so you think this is all the malto accomplished? Or is there still reason to use it even if you can get that FG without it? Did you target and adjust ph? I’ve been adding whirlpool lactic acid lately although I recall Brujos wasn’t very aggressive about a low finishing ph.
Did you do a cold and short dry hop post ferment?

I got around 4.5 gal in the keg which is typical for my set up. I think the malto contributes something other than just plain old body. Its hard to put my finger on it, but its a certain type of body and sweetness that seems to compliment the big dry hop really well. I didn't use lactic, I had a mash pH of 5.35 just from the SO4 and CaCl and the final beer is 4.51. Yes for the dry hop, I soft crashed to 55 degrees from days 12-15, dry hopped days 15-17, cold crashed days 17-19 and kegged.

 

[Langerz]

I got around 4.5 gal in the keg which is typical for my set up. I think the malto contributes something other than just plain old body. Its hard to put my finger on it, but its a certain type of body and sweetness that seems to compliment the big dry hop really well. I didn't use lactic, I had a mash pH of 5.35 just from the SO4 and CaCl and the final beer is 4.51. Yes for the dry hop, I soft crashed to 55 degrees from days 12-15, dry hopped days 15-17, cold crashed days 17-19 and kegged.

I used malto in my last NEIPA too and like you I'm absolutely loving it. Other than the malto I had done the same recipe before and while that one was really good this one was definitely a step above. Like you said it's a bit hard to describe the difference but it's in the realm of body/sweetness.

I will note that with mine there were also process differences that could have had an affect. Prior NEIPAs were all propane super simple BIAB with a propane burner in my garage. So while I always shot for a higher mash temp I know I didn't have great control over it. Despite wrapping in sleeping bags etc things were always a bit lower at the end of the mash. I'm now electric and inside and I'm sure I did a much better job holding a consistent and higher mash temp. Not sure which variable had the bigger impact, probably some of both. Not planning to experiment to find out this one was too good not to just keep repeating.

 

[x22n]

Well everybody, I'm happy to report that I brewed a really ****ing good hazy IPA!

This is my second attempt at a Brujos style, and its a huge improvement from the first one which was already pretty good. Bottom line is I really think the maltodextrin made a big difference, I definitely pick that up quality in Brujos's beers now that I can make the connection.

Sweet sugary mango, pineapple and passionfruit in the nose. Creamy mango, pineapple, papaya, slight melon in the flavor. Body is full and lucious, it really compliments the creaminess in the flavor. Finishes with a pretty nice balance, with almost a hop tingling feeling on the tongue (not hop burn, but not typical bitterness either) to balance out the body and sweetness. Overall this is one of my best IPAs ever. I love the grain bill, hop combo, yeast profile, everything.

10 lb Pils
5 lb Malted oat
3 lb Wheat
3 lb Flaked oat
1 lb Maltodextrine

0.15 oz Warrior 60 min (6 IBU)
2 oz Citra WP @ 170 (20 min)
2 oz Nelson Lupo WP @ 170 (20 min)
2 oz Citra Lupomax DH
2 oz Nelson DH
8 oz Motueka DH

Imperial Barbarian

90:260 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.074
F.G. = 1.019
ABV = 7.2%

What was your mash temp? 1.019 seems low with a pound of malto

 

[anteater8]

What was your mash temp? 1.019 seems low with a pound of malto

Mashed at 155, I thought it would have been a toucher higher too but its in the ball park

 

[Genuine]

I will say this is the most fragrant batch so far...walked into my house after work last night and I was greeting with a pleasant hoppy aroma. Strong enough that my wife even commented on it. I've used Maltodextrin in a stout before but for some reason I never thought about using it in an NEIPA. I'll have to do that with my next batch. I will say that this style has to be the most exciting one to brew for me.