secretlevel
Well-Known Member
Just realized I double posted, sorry - newbie.
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New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
- Thread starter Braufessor
- Start date
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secretlevel
Well-Known Member
@SRJHops thanks for the feedback, I think you may have a good point about Idaho 7 - it's probably more suited toward American IPA. Also, I don't quite have a way to flush out the air out of the ziploc hop baggies, but I do my best to minimize the air inside before putting them into the freezer. Could this be impacting my aroma?
Is this better for a hop schedule?
Again: I have 2oz of Citra, 8oz Mosaic, 8oz Idaho 7, 6oz Simcoe, 8oz Centennial, 5oz CTZ, 8oz Amarillo
Flameout: 0.7oz CTZ, 0.7 Mosaic, 0.5 Citra
WP @ 180F: 1.4oz Simcoe, 0.7 Mosaic, 0.5 Citra
Dry Hop 1, day 1: 0.7 Simcoe 7, 0.5 Mosaic, 0.5 Citra
Dry hop 2, day 5: 2oz Simcoe, 1 Mosaic, 0.5 Citra
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
@secretlevel i personally think I7 is an unbelievably good hop for a NE ipa. The way it plays with citra and other fruit forward hops. I7 has so much true “hop” character and quite a bit dank/herbal notes it adds so much complexity to a beer. It’s amazing in my opinion
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SRJHops
Why did the rabbit like NEIPA's so much?
I think Idaho 7 is probably great for a NEIPA too. I used it once and it got overwhelmed by Citra, I think, so it was probably my fault that it didn't impress. I may try it again someday, but there are so many others to try too!
I do think you will like the Simcoe, though. I get a little bit of pine from it, just enough to add some nice complexity.
I don't know fast hops oxidize, but most folks who store them try to flush them with Co2 and then freeze them. So it IS possible you are harming the aroma and flavor a bit.
Personally, I think a surefire way to guarantee more freshness -- albeit a more expensive one -- is to get smaller quantities and use them right away, especially for the dry hop. (Interestingly, Janish suggests that older hops might even work better for the WP.)
It doesn't look like you changed the dry hop amounts very much? I was suggesting considering 1.5 ounces X 4 gallons = 6 ounces. With that said, there are probably others that would suggest 1.25 X 4 = 5, so you are spot on.
For your WP, I would suggest getting below 180. In fact, after reading some recent comments on this thread and doing a little more thinking/reading, I think you'd be best served by a WP between 150 and 160 for 20-30 mins.
Be sure to report back after your beer is finished!
Frieds
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Idaho 7 is sensational imo. I find myself using it in almost every Hazy I make.
secretlevel
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That's awesome to hear! Do you guys use it on the hot-side and dry hop? Are there lots of piney and resinous flavors or is it mostly fruit? Definitely looking for fruit, but really curious about this hop.
Scott Janish tweeted that he loves Idaho 7 on the hot-side at one point
Scott Janish tweeted that he loves Idaho 7 on the hot-side at one point
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
I have two beers (NEIPAs) kegged right now. They are the first two brews of mine...ever lol. First is the common citra/mosaic/galaxy. Second is citra/mosaic/idaho 7. Identical grain bills and identical hop rates (12.5oz total with 6.5oz hotside and 6oz dryhop. Both brews are equal proportion of hops 1:1:1 for citra/mosaic and either galaxy or idaho7....imo the galaxy brings much more passion fruity intensity than Idaho 7, I7 does play very well with citra and does bring some pineapple/orange/tropical notes but also adds some smooth resin/herbal notes. Both beers came out great but imo I7 brings a complexity to the table that galaxy doesn’t. I think I7 will have more fruitiness amplified if paired with citra or would bring more of its resin/pine/dankness if the other hops were similar. I7 IMO brings a lot of interesting complexity to the beer overall that makes the beer not a simple fruit bomb and makes it less one dimensional. I definitely dig it.
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Got it. Seems reasonable. Id still throw a little bit of something in pellet form, i cant exactly put my finger on it but i think it affects moutthfeel and also flavor integration.
let us know how the terpenes work. Very interesting.
let us know how the terpenes work. Very interesting.
Galaxy is my favorite hop. I7 is excellent too but galaxy will almost always win.
I’ve used both together and it was beautiful.
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What are you favorite whirlpool to dry hop ratios? I have always done 50/50 and shooting for 8oz whirlpool and 8oz dry hop for a 5g batch tomorrow.
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secretlevel
Well-Known Member
@jturman35 @SRJHops There's an interesting presentation I've seen mentioned in some forums about hop saturation. The conclusion is that there are only very marginal returns of dry hopping above 1.1 oz/gal.
For whirlpool - I haven't found too much research but I've seen several brewers (Hop Butcher and Trillium) mention that they utilize most of their hops on the dry hop, rather than whirlpool.
For whirlpool - I haven't found too much research but I've seen several brewers (Hop Butcher and Trillium) mention that they utilize most of their hops on the dry hop, rather than whirlpool.
For Braufessor's recipe, I usually do 6 oz in the whirlpool and 6-8 oz in the dry hop. I'm also a huge fan of the Trillium Melcher St recipe on this site which uses 3 oz in the whirlpool and 7.5 oz in the dry hop. Great results with both.
You can never go wrong with Citra, Mosaic and Amarillo in the whirl pool. I personally like to throw in an ounce of centennial in the whirl pool and then I dry hop 6oz total in a 6 gallon batch (5 gallons into the keg) with 2oz each of citra, mosiac(for the dank, deeper hop flavor) and then I love I7, Nelson Sauvin, El Dorado, Vic Secret, or something else to help round out the flavors. I love a NEIPA with the deep, dark flavors and then some bright citrus with a touch of sweetness.
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I have done Braufessor’s grain bill recipe several times and have slowly tweaked to my liking. This batch I’m going 2lbs flaked white wheat instead of just a 1lb of flaked wheat and see what that brings. I wanted to push the envelope with this beer, but I may dial it back down to 6oz whirlpool and 8oz dry hops and see what happens.
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aaronm13
Well-Known Member
Is a whirlpool temperature around the 160F range the general consensus of being the optimal temperature for this? Ive being doing it at 180F for 30 minutes recently based on the Scott Janish study of 180F having the more fruit flavors and the cooler temperature having a more woody flavour. Think I could be extracting too much bitterness at this temperature.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
So based on what Janish states, I don’t personally believe that to be true. I’ve been wh from 160*-150* in every ipa I’ve made in over 2 years and have never have had a beer have a woody flavor at all.
When it comes to wh temps it’s really based on the person. I still use about 20% of my hops in boil so I don’t need much additional ibu pick up from the wh, so I’ll go lower and for 40-60 mins. Some folks like to go at 180*f or a little higher since they aren’t adding any boil hop, so all their ibus need to be picked up post boil. I also know folks that will wh at 180 for 20 mins with one addition and then drop to 160-150*f and add another addition .
I think they all work depending on your process and what you personally are hoping to achieve, so I’d suggest trying each of the methods and see which one what you want.
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
I get about 10 IBUs from a small 5 minute addition the rest come from the whirlpool. Usually aim for around 45 IBUs finish according to Beersmith. I don't find any of my beers overly bitter at all but more I want to get maximum hop goodness out. I definitely put too much into what Jannish says and shouldn't take his findings as gospel.
I think I'm going to try layering my whirlpool next time. Maybe hold one addition at 160 for 20 minutes then let cool to 150 and add the second. Hold for 20 minutes and see what happens. I got so hung up on my dry hop amounts and process I think I've really neglected the Whirlpool and want to try and fix that.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Idk if you’ll find much of a difference from 160*f and 150* but the only way to know is try it. I’m roughly 20% boil, 30% whirlpool, and 50% dryhop in my total hop usage and it suits me well
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you really have your process nailed. I can't stop tweaking things. I'd say your right about those two temperatures, might need to go slightly higher on the first one. maybe 167-150 (75C-65C). As you say, I won't know till I try.
marchuk96
If you brew it...they will come!!
I'm usually a 150 for an hour whirlpool guy but my last beer(black IPA) I whirlpooled 2oz eureka/1 oz simcoe cryo/1 oz amarillo cryo /and 1 oz I7 at 140 for an hour cause my wort chiller dropped my temp down rather quickly and I didn't feel like reheating wort back up...we shall see if the 10 degree difference in temp makes a difference at all in what flavors come through and there intensity...and yes....its a black IPA in a n/e ipa thread...apologies [emoji2357]
This recipe improved a lot for me when I upped my flaked oats from 1 lb to 3 lb, just got my highest score in a local competition at 42.5.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Nice. What did you place? Anything over 40 usually places. Was it bcjp?
Yep, it took 3rd out of 18 IPA's in a BJCP sanctioned competition.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Congrats brother. Did a NEIPA actual win or did an American. I feel like judges still always favor the American ipa when they are wrapped into one category
1st was NEIPA, 2nd was American.
For those whirlpooling sub 180, are you using a pump or constantly stirring? I stir a few times but pretty much just let them step and never felt like I got that much extraction going below 180 (not isomerization but extraction of oils and whatnot). Honestly I found going at flameout or 200 to provide the most punch for me. My BK especially with the IC and Thermometer barb just makes it annoying to try and stir it
secretlevel
Well-Known Member
Holy jeepers batman! I just won 3rd place out of 37 entries in NEIPA with a 37... There's some tough competition in your area.
Super curious - what page of the thread is Braufessor's recipe on? Can you share it in some way?
Yeah I've gotten gold with lower scores, there must have been some stellar IPA's in that flight. Here's the recipe:
6.25 lb 2 row
6.25 lb Golden Promise
3 lb Flaked Oats
0.75 lb Wheat
0.3 lb Crystal 15
0.7 oz Warrior 60 min
3 oz Citra whirlpool (30 min 170 degrees)
3 oz Mosaic whirlpool (30 min 170 degrees)
3.9 oz Citra dry hop
3.1 oz Amarillo dry hop
1 oz Galaxy dry hop
Yeast nutrient 10 min
Imperial Juice Gen 2
75:150 sulfate:chloride
O.G = 1.071
F.G = 1.017
I dry hop after a soft crash to 50 then raise up to 60. Judge's notes include "tangerine, lime, mango and pineapple". I picked up pineapple, mango, passion fruit and papaya in the aroma, plus more of the same with stronger passion fruit in the flavor.
I think for my next NEIPA, I'm going to try a new whirlpool technique. I've been thinking of saving half to a quarter of my whirlpool hops for when the kettle is draining and I'm down to the last 3-4 gallons. My temps usually drop to 150. Maybe a short contact time before cooling will add some pop and bright hop flavors.
SRJHops
Why did the rabbit like NEIPA's so much?
I could be wrong, but I'd think you'd actually want longer contact times at lower temps. Of course, there is a wide range of opinion in this area, so if you go for it, be sure to send us your results!
How long is everyone dry hopping?
marchuk96
If you brew it...they will come!!
3 days usually at 70...then a second shot a day after 1st dry hop...then crash and keg...majority of extraction at this temp is mostly done about a day or so after you start the dry hop
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I do exactly what @marchuk96 suggest. First dryhop 72 hours til crash second with 48 til crash
secretlevel
Well-Known Member
Interesting, it doesn't seem like there would be much biotransformation there unless the hops trigger further fermentation. What's your guys' total time in primary?
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Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
My sample size is really low with home brewing experience....Ive brewed 4 total brews and 2 are in keg and 2 are currently in fermenters. All are NEIPAs. So to answer your question, the total time in the fermentor for me has been 13-14 days. Out of those ~2 weeks, the beer is on the hops for about the last three days only. Right now Im only dry hopping after fermentation is complete and Ive soft crashed the yeast out of suspension first. I haven't done any secondary transfers unless you consider my serving keg my secondary lol.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I don’t want any bio transformation to occur. Bio transformation does not amplify flavor or aroma (can actually show a decrease in aroma) it only changes the compounds into different ones. In my experience dry hoping during fermentation will will greatly increase your risk of hop burn due to binding more polyphenols (hop burn) with proteins and keeps them in suspension longer.
To each their own though. I know quite a few people in this thread who I genuinely respect feel their beers are better since they started active fermentation dry hoping. That being said, I will never go back to doing so. I want the absolute least amount of yeast present when I am dryhoping.
marchuk96
If you brew it...they will come!!
+1 to this and typically 11-12 days from grain to glass...[emoji482]
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Im sure that Id easily be able to fit my NEIPAs in the 11-12 day window, as they really seem to be done at like day 5ish, but wait until day 7 to take the hydro sample just to be sure. Trying to be patient being a new brewer anyways.
Loud Brewing
Well-Known Member
I also skip the bio hop dose now and soft crash before DHing. I have been single dryhopping at 72 hrs. What do you feel is the advantage to splitting the DH at 72 and 48 hrs?
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Since I’m dry hopping 6-8 oz I find that if I dump them in all at once, once they expand, a 1/3 of them are above the beer line and not in contact. By breaking it up, I feel I get more overall contact time. My first dh is usually my danker or more unique hops and the second is the cryo or fruit forward hops. This is just preference but does seem like I get a tad more pop when adding the brighter hops last
