No Sparge BIAB, Ideal MT Size for 10Gal

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Ashevillain

Level 3 Potions Master
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Hey HBT,

I've read through several threads/searches and know exactly what size mash tun I would need to do various gravity 5/10 gal batches if I were batch sparging.

I used the BIAB calculator and it seemed that for even a 1.060 gravity 10gal no sparge batch I would need a mash tun volume higher than 15gal unless I was getting very high efficiencies, which is a bummer because there's a decent 52qt for 22 bucks on amazon right now.

Is that about right?

What are your thoughts? I want something that can easily do moderate gravity no sparge 10gal batches with minimal headspace, that will leave me room to do larger gravity 10gal batch sparges.

Will 52qt cut it or am I looking at a 60-70qt cooler? And if that's the case wouldn't 62 be the max volume needed to suite my no sparge needs on a regular gravity batch?

I enjoy brewing very small beers as well sometimes. I love the small english styles so that's my main reason for avoiding any uneeded headspace.
 
I have a 25 gallon concord pot plus an arbor fab D shaped basket (relevant because it has feet to sit off the bottom and doesn't take up the entirety of the pot diameter for grain height), and 10 gallon batches are perfect. Usual grain weight is 20-25 lbs, but I have plenty of room to go further. The two times I've tried a half barrel, there's not enough space for water if I account for boil off.

So, I know 25 galllon pot will work for you, and a 20 might depending on your boiloff.

Edit: I somehow missed that you were asking cooler instead of pot. That'll make it easier since you could presumably just put in however much water will fit for your grain bill instead of just using one kettle like me.
 
So with no sparge it isn't a problem to add however much water you need to achieve your pre boil volume after the mash? It seemed like you needed to have the proper pre boil volume in the mash for the mash to work properly. Or is it basically as long as the gravity is on point for your desired end volume don't think about it? In that case I'm good to go with my 22$ cooler! Hopefully this is just another case of trying to think too hard.:tank: Or what logic am I tanking on?
 
I am a BIAB brewer but brewed in a 10 gal Gott cooler MLT for years. After switching to BIAB and trying to have the full volume of water and malt in the kettle at the same time, there have definitely been a few brews where that just wasn't going to happen! So I mash with as much water as I can with the MLT (kettle in my case, cooler in yours) volume I have available and then just top up to my estimated pre boil volume. I worried about it until I realized that I brewed with a much thicker mash when I used a traditional mash and sparge, so not a problem.
 
I'd love to just mash in my kettle! I don't think it will hold temp this time of year and it would be too much trouble to transport the wort downstairs and outside to boil in the apartment i live at. One day soon though hopefully I can do 1 vessel that's why also why i'd like to spend as little as possible on the cooler. Do you mash outside? I got a 15gal kettle id just as soon mash in if it didn't seem like i'd lose too much heat over the ~hour
 
Maintaining temp is an issue when it's cold. A Reflectix koozie helps and you can hit it with a quick shot of heat from the burner to get temps back up if they fall too low. Here's my set up. Under normal 60°+ weather it will hold pretty well, might drop a degree or two. When it's cold I have to keep an eye on it.

View attachment 1484442412992.jpg

View attachment 1484442423667.jpg
 
Maintaining temp is an issue when it's cold. A Reflectix koozie helps and you can hit it with a quick shot of heat from the burner to get temps back up if they fall too low. Here's my set up. Under normal 60°+ weather it will hold pretty well, might drop a degree or two. When it's cold I have to keep an eye on it.


What kind of cart is that?
 
Hey HBT,

I've read through several threads/searches and know exactly what size mash tun I would need to do various gravity 5/10 gal batches if I were batch sparging.

I used the BIAB calculator and it seemed that for even a 1.060 gravity 10gal no sparge batch I would need a mash tun volume higher than 15gal unless I was getting very high efficiencies, which is a bummer because there's a decent 52qt for 22 bucks on amazon right now.

Is that about right?

What are your thoughts? I want something that can easily do moderate gravity no sparge 10gal batches with minimal headspace, that will leave me room to do larger gravity 10gal batch sparges.

Will 52qt cut it or am I looking at a 60-70qt cooler? And if that's the case wouldn't 62 be the max volume needed to suite my no sparge needs on a regular gravity batch?

I enjoy brewing very small beers as well sometimes. I love the small english styles so that's my main reason for avoiding any uneeded headspace.

Yes you are right.

For complete flexibility and convenience imo, i think 15g for 5 gallon batches and 30 for 10g. Many state happiness with 10g for 5g batches to. I think 13g would work real well for the money/value. I have been making 10 g batches no sparge in 15 gallon kettle. About 21 pounds of grain filled to the brim is biggest i can do. Keeping in mind i am doing 45 min boils too so less boil off. Its difficult, i will buy 30g for 10g batches or dunk sparge if I keep doing 10g.

I put an old jacket over kettle and cover with a bag in our freezing temps in denver. It does real well. I think reflectix and jacket and bag would work. Or box over it. Or recirculate :)
 
What kind of cart is that?

That's the Frankenrig! It is a small scaffold (Home Depot for $100) with the small scaffold shelf secured to the top of the extensions made from the sides of a medical sh!tter picked up at a thrift store. Ratchet pulleys suspended from the shelf with eye hooks for the BIAB bags. The shelf that the kettles are sitting on is made from strut material and have Bayou Classic burners attached to the bottom. 20 gallon aluminum kettle on the left, 10 gallon stainless on the right. Pump, plate chiller, inline oxygenation rounds out the setup.
 
The sweet spot for no sparge 10 gallon batches is 20 gallon. You'll start with about 14 gallons of water and drop in about 25-35 pounds of grain. Grain displaces about .075 gal/lb so that's 2-3 gallons depending. You can't fit 16-17 gallons in a 15 or 16 gallon pot. If you know for sure that you'll stick with 1.060 OG or lower, you can just get by with a 16 gallon pot like the Bayou 1316.
 
The sweet spot for no sparge 10 gallon batches is 20 gallon. You'll start with about 14 gallons of water and drop in about 25-35 pounds of grain. Grain displaces about .075 gal/lb so that's 2-3 gallons depending. You can't fit 16-17 gallons in a 15 or 16 gallon pot. If you know for sure that you'll stick with 1.060 OG or lower, you can just get by with a 16 gallon pot like the Bayou 1316.
This...Get a 20 gallon (80 qt)pot and brew any gravity beer you want in it. You only need one pot for everything with BIAB. I've never tried 5 gallons with mine. Concord pots on EBAY are great cheap pots.
 
The sweet spot for no sparge 10 gallon batches is 20 gallon. You'll start with about 14 gallons of water and drop in about 25-35 pounds of grain. Grain displaces about .075 gal/lb so that's 2-3 gallons depending. You can't fit 16-17 gallons in a 15 or 16 gallon pot. If you know for sure that you'll stick with 1.060 OG or lower, you can just get by with a 16 gallon pot like the Bayou 1316.

I think I'm misunderstanding something. Can you help me. When you do a larger batch is it not exactly double on total water. When I used a biab calculator sure enough as you said 20g will do for large grain bills even on 10g batches. Yet when split in half the 10g pot would not suffice it seems? So essentially as one gets larger the water is not an exact 2to1 ratio less is needed?
 
As i run these numbers in calculators, even with the understanding that the ratio gets smaller for bigger batches, i come up with very little head space in a 20 gallon kettle depending on batch and type. Imo i like having plenty of room for stirring and dealing with the bag, etc...Also perhaps one might want to make a batch with 40 pounds of grain. Since i dont leave trub in kettle i need 5.8 into fermenter to have 5g when done, because my biab process leaves about .8 g of trub in fermenter depending on batch and type. Pumpkin leaves a ton, ipas too. Based on these ideas, I think if price is the same, then why not give oneself the extra space while brewing? I have never wanted a 10g kettle for my 5g batches, but it seems possible somebody might have had a 10g and wanted a 15g, i dont know. The way one brews seems key.

Even though I don't understand ratio for larger batches, I am standing by having more space in the kettle for making 10 plus percent beer and having more room for ease and convenience. Especially if it is a dedicated pot for 10-gallon batches. That being said if there's a massive price difference or one wants to do 5 (assumption here) and 10g batches in it, clearly a 20 gallon Kettle will work nicely as well. Last, the 20 gallon Kettle might be king because it's not too big to do 5-gallon batches (assumption here) and will definitely work for 10g. Brewing style, type of beer being made, budget and typical batch size are all considerations. No argument wanted and i certainly hope i didnt insult anyone, just expressing my opinions.
 
The reason it doesn't scale linearly is that boil off ratio is generally fixed for a given pot whether you start boiling 7 gallons or 12. For a 5 gallon batch I start with 8 gallons of water and for a 10 gallon I start with 14.

I think the only challenge doing 5 gallons in a 20 is for a particularly short and wide diameter pot with an electric element installed just a little too high up.
 
When I switched to BIAB I started with a 10 gallon pot because I saw a nice one at a good price on Amazon. I quickly realized that it is too small to do full volume BIAB except for session beers. Immediately started looking for a 20 gallon!
 
I'm usually not one to question your expertise Bobby, but Beersmith calls for 8.5 gallons of water to mash my 4.3% cream ale w/ 9.25# of grain. That maxes out my 10gal kettle
 
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I already have a 15gal pot that I got for a discount due to a dent so ill be sticking with that for some time. But the plan is to insulate that kettle and use it for the MT instead of a cooler, it just seems so much better to do one vessel when possible, and I still have my old 10gal kettle that can be used for heat sparge water. Either way I will be fine to no sparge 5gal batches and should be able to get away with some milds and bitters 8-10 gallon.
 
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I already have a 15gal pot that I got for a discount due to a dent so ill be sticking with that for some time. But the plan is to insulate that kettle and use it for the MT instead of a cooler, it just seems so much better to do one vessel when possible, and I still have my old 10gal kettle that can be used for heat sparge water. Either way I will be fine to no sparge 5gal batches and should be able to get away with some milds and bitters 8-10 gallon.

Yes, infact you will be better than fine for 5g batches. You will have so much room, you will love it. No boil overs, no worries, plenty of room, and if you want to make a 13% beer you can. As stated above with 13 gallons of water and 21 pounds of grain I make 10-gallon batches in my 15g. I tried so hard to find the picture of it filled to the brim. It goes right to the brim and expect a little mess, or you could always sparge.


Its funny I'm thinking about going to a cooler. Either the grains move or the water moves. I need a bucket and colander to squeeze every last drop out of the grain. In future I would like to use a screen on top so I can squeeze grains over the kettle. Or maybe a winch. Since I use a jacket and a bag to maintain temperature a cooler would make it so I didn't need those either. Anyways happy Brewing.
 

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