Newbie : Question about boil temperature

[HibsMax]

Hi Folks,

I'm new to the game, been brewing for a couple of months now. I've had a few questions before that have been answered by searching the web, reading this forum and / or reading the book that came with my starter kit - The Complete Joy of Home Brewing 3rd Edition.

Last week I purchased a kit (HGB Blue Devil) from my LHBS and there is something in the instructions that doesn't make sense to me. I'll ask them next time I'm there but I thought I would post the question here as well. After I have steeped the grains for a while and discarded the grain bag I am instructed to add the malt extract powder and some hops. Easy. But then it says to gently boil (150F) for 60 minutes. My confusion comes from the word "boil". To me, boil with respect to water is 212 degrees (or at least hot enough to be bubbling). 150 degrees F is nowhere near that. Should I be boiling (gentle bubbling) or should I be focused on the 150 F? I found it pretty hard keeping the temp that low on my least powerful burner on the stove, turned to MIN. It's almost like I should be raising the temp, turning off the heat, leaving to sit and then increasing the heat as necessary.

If you were brewing a kit that said to boil gently at 150F, what would you do?

Thanks, Max

 

[broadbill]

If you were brewing a kit that said to boil gently at 150F, what would you do?

Thanks, Max

I would come to the conclusion that the person who wrote the instructions for the kit didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and would promptly disregard them. I would then do a google search for instructions that would be even remotely useful.

 

[Copbrew133]

Sounds contrary to me, I would call them unless your going by before planning your brew day. Good luck

 

[AmandaK]

I would not listen to that kit instructions. You need to have the boil uncovered and gently rolling. I do not worry about "boiling temps" seeing as how I understand simple physics, unlike the person who wrote those instructions.

 

[HibsMax]

I hope that's not the case because the place I bought the kit from has been in business for 40 years....which means nothing but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. I will call them up today and ask them to clarify their instructions. I'll also look online to see if there are other instruction sets for the same beer. The LHBS sells commercial kits as well as kits they make up themselves every day - this is one of their own kits so someone at the store should be able to clear this up for me. I just hope that the batch isn't ruined because I used the wrong boil temperature.

Cheers, Max

 

[TopherM]

Your specialty grains should be steeped at around 150 for 20-25 minutes.

THEN get it up to a 212 boil. THEN you should stir in your extract, being sure to stir like crazy so it is all dissolved so it doesn't carmalize on the bottom. It helps if you turn off the flame for just a few minutes while you stir in your extract to avoid any burning.


After your extract is all dissolved, put it back on the flame to get it back to a rolling boil, then you start the timer on your 60 min boil, add your 60 min hops additions and and count down your hop additions from there.

And all instructions are not crap. ALL of the big online brew shops, including Midwest, Northern Brewer, Austin Homebrew, Brewmaster's Warehouse, etc. have very simple and accurate instructions with their kits. I have NEVER had an issue with any kit instructions, just stick to the reputable online shops!

 

[broadbill]

To add: it sounds like the 150F for 60 minutes is some sort of mash step. However, what you describe having is an extract with specialty grains kit, which does not need to be mashed. All of the goodness from the grains comes out with the steeping step.

 

[HibsMax]

Your specialty grains should be steeped at around 150 for 20-25 minutes.

Check, I did that.

THEN get it up to a 212 boil.

Bugger, I did NOT do that!

THEN you should stir in your extract, being sure to stir like crazy so it is all dissolved so it doesn't carmalize on the bottom. It helps if you turn off the flame for just a few minutes while you stir in your extract to avoid any burning.

I stirred like crazy to break up all the little chunks and I made sure that it was all well mixed.

After your extract is all dissolved, put it back on the flame to get it back to a rolling boil, then you start the timer on your 60 min boil, add your 60 min hops additions and and count down your hop additions from there.

Again, didn't do this. The time was right, the temp was low.

 

[HibsMax]

To add: it sounds like the 150F for 60 minutes is some sort of mash step. However, what you describe having is an extract with specialty grains kit, which does not need to be mashed. All of the goodness from the grains comes out with the steeping step.

yes, that is what I have. I guess the instructions are almost right, just the boil temperature. If the instructions didn't mention a temperature I would definitely have gone for a rolling boil.

I'll contact the store and if they think that the instructions are incorrect, maybe I will get a replacement kit.

 

[venquessa]

Just remember that a boil is a boil.... but...

1. we aren't dealing with water any more we are dealing with sugary wort.
2. we are not dealing with a liquid, we are dealing with a solution.

Both effect the properties of any "boil".

So I'd just ignore the temps and aim to have a visible rolling boil.

Be VERY, VERY careful though as the wort can and will foam up like a son-of-a-b as it nears the boil. Stir it like crazy, be ready to lift it off the heat or have a water spray handy to cool the surface foam down to stop it boiling over. The foaming (hot break) will finally stop and the wort clear, hopefully into a rolling boil.

Never, ever cover the wort and turn you back on it while heating. In fact turning your back on it is a bad idea as it is.

 

[HibsMax]

Just remember that a boil is a boil.... but...

1. we aren't dealing with water any more we are dealing with sugary wort.
2. we are not dealing with a liquid, we are dealing with a solution.

Both effect the properties of any "boil".

So I'd just ignore the temps and aim to have a visible rolling boil.

Be VERY, VERY careful though as the wort can and will foam up like a son-of-a-b as it nears the boil. Stir it like crazy, be ready to lift it off the heat or have a water spray handy to cool the surface foam down to stop it boiling over. The foaming (hot break) will finally stop and the wort clear, hopefully into a rolling boil.

Never, ever cover the wort and turn you back on it while heating. In fact turning your back on it is a bad idea as it is.

Thanks!

I've made 2 batches already, bottled but not drank yet, and in those cases I did a proper boil. The reason I didn't do it this time is simply because I followed the instructions to the letter. Obviously as I learn more I will become less and less dependent on the instructions and I will make less and less of these mistakes.

Should I chuck this beer out and start over? There's no point in me waiting a few weeks for something that is never going to happen.

 

[HibsMax]

Update : I am going to wait and see what happens with this batch. Apparently the wort should be bubbling, as everyone has already stated, and the most important detail is the SG and as long as that is in the target zone I should be all set. Another lesson learned.

I am now going to relax and have a home brew - one of the ones that's been bottled for just over two weeks so I realize it won't have reached it's full potential yet....but I want to see if it even tastes like beer.

 

[HibsMax]

Hi Folks,

I measured the gravity of the "beer" I have and it's below the expected finishing gravity (silly me did NOT measure the original gravity for this batch - I did with all the others). I'm wondering if this batch is trashed and I am wasting my time. I reread the replies and I appreciate the advice already given but I didn't hear from anyone about what happens to beer when the boil is not a boil. If my wort never reached a rolling boil, because I followed the instructions and purposefully didn't let it get that high, will the end product likely be garbage? I'm trying not to worry but if this batch is going to end up like piss then I may as well start a new batch and take steps to make sure I don't make the same mistake twice. The reason I am asking this is because I have also read a few other threads where people made mistakes and not all mistakes are tragedies. I will persist with this batch if there is some hope, otherwise I will cut my losses sooner rather than later and get something else going.

Cheers, Max

 

[broadbill]

Hi Folks,

I measured the gravity of the "beer" I have and it's below the expected finishing gravity (silly me did NOT measure the original gravity for this batch - I did with all the others). I'm wondering if this batch is trashed and I am wasting my time. I reread the replies and I appreciate the advice already given but I didn't hear from anyone about what happens to beer when the boil is not a boil. If my wort never reached a rolling boil, because I followed the instructions and purposefully didn't let it get that high, will the end product likely be garbage? I'm trying not to worry but if this batch is going to end up like piss then I may as well start a new batch and take steps to make sure I don't make the same mistake twice. The reason I am asking this is because I have also read a few other threads where people made mistakes and not all mistakes are tragedies. I will persist with this batch if there is some hope, otherwise I will cut my losses sooner rather than later and get something else going.

Cheers, Max

What did the hydrometer reading taste like?

 

[HibsMax]

What did the hydrometer reading taste like?

I'll let you know after my next sip.

 

[Krieger]

Honestly Hibsmax I would just ferment and ride it out. I thought I botched my last batch, but figured I invested the time, so I might as well see how it came out. Even after fermentation the taste was really off. But I bottled it, and it turned out pretty good. Not my best, but very drinkable. My only real complaint is the color is off... which doesn't say much seeing as I realized after the fact I used grain that was darker then I was suppose to.

So in short, ferment, bottle, and see. I find brewing to be the more forgiving of the hobbies I have. Yeast can fix a lot of issues. Also where did you get your kit?

I noticed your in westford, I'm just across the highway in Lowell.

*Edit* To answer your question, the boil allows some of the undesirable compounds in the wort to disolve and evaporate. Now, that doesn't mean that your wort is ruined, but tasting it would be the key. I still say ferment and see what comes of it.

 

[TarVolon]

Sounds contrary to me, I would call them unless your going by before planning your brew day. Good luck

Go Bolts!

[also, just do a rolling boil. Ignore the 150* nonsense]

[also also, since it's been done already, keep on going and give it a chance to taste good. you've already invested time and money. why throw it out without waiting for things to finish?]

 

[HibsMax]

Thanks, Guys. I am going to persist. I measured the gravity again today and no change so I am pretty sure fermentation is done. I tossed in 1oz hops for 7 days of dry hopping.

I tasted the last sample and it at least smelled like beer and tasted like beer, albeit flat and a little on the warm side....but still beer-like. I spoke with the owner of another LHBS and asked him for his thoughts, he said that the boil is required to get the bitterness out of the hops so it's possible the resulting beer might be a little sweet / malty but I tastes some bitterness which is why I am battling on....with the support and encouragement of this community.

 

[BodaciousBrew]

We are currently in the same boat....New HUGE pot, no rolling boil. There is movement in the water, but no bubbling boil. Also, the fan on the vent above the stove came on automatically and we cannot turn it off so I assume that is stealing heat as well. Tossed in the start of the hops and will continue throughout the next hour. Guess we will ride this one out.

Did your beer turn out ok @HibsMax?

 

[lgilmore]

My guess on your instructions? it's a typo.

 

[HibsMax]

We are currently in the same boat....New HUGE pot, no rolling boil. There is movement in the water, but no bubbling boil. Also, the fan on the vent above the stove came on automatically and we cannot turn it off so I assume that is stealing heat as well. Tossed in the start of the hops and will continue throughout the next hour. Guess we will ride this one out.

Did your beer turn out ok @HibsMax?

Yup, the beer turned out good. I haven't drank more than just a couple of samples though. I really want to try and let my beers carb for at least four weeks before popping them open. And I also need to find room in a fridge somewhere so I can chill them down properly before drinking i.e., for a couple of DAYS rather than a couple of HOURS.


I am learning more all the time with this hobby. If you struggle to get a boil going then I would heat your wort with the lid on and then take the lid off when you reach a boil (but don't boil your wort with the lid on all the time, just till you reach a boil). Your fan will be sucking away heat, you want to try and disable that.

 

[HibsMax]

My guess on your instructions? it's a typo.

My guess on the instructions is - bad instructions. I now go to the store that is closer to me in Nashua. I have had many long chats with the guys that work there. I don't like to judge but they seem more into it than the guys I spoke to at the other place, but that could be because the Nashus LHBS is quieter so they have a little more time to spend talking.

The LHBS where I bought this kit from has a website with Facebook feedback on their products. I left them feedback on two of their recipes (both had wrong instructions) but never heard anything back. It's annoying when a company provides a feedback mechanism then ignores it.

 

[BodaciousBrew]

Glad your beer came out good. Amazed you can wait 4 weeks in the bottle! We've never made it over 2 weeks! Carbonation has been good at that point when we tested one and then it's hard to wait any longer. Patience.....

The temp of our beer did make it to 220 F, but as mentioned before the change in liquis will change the boiling temp so it never rolled to a boil. This pot did not come with a top, but I may look into buying one. My concern is that since it didn't loose a lot of volume in the boil, the resulting beer could be very weak? It's got good color and the air-lock started bubbling after 8 hours so I know something is happening. The OG was 1.037 which won't give us as high of an alcohol content as we had been aiming for.

Thinking of making or buying a heat stick.....

 

[HibsMax]

Do you have room outside? Consider a turkey fryer if you do. I made that switch a few weeks ago and haven't looked back. It cost me about 40 bucks from Walmart. You said your wort temp hit 220.....not a typo? It should be bubbling like crazy at that temp. I take my thermometer out when it starts boiling but I've never seen the temp that high before.

As for leaving my beer, it takes patience but everything I have read indicates leaving it longer leads to better beer....within reason, not all beers will cellar well for years. I have completed 7 batches now. 4 have been bottled long enough to drink, 1 is getting closer and the other 2 have only been bottled about 1 week.

 

[BodaciousBrew]

I am looking into an outdoor propane burner SQ-14 as people have mentioned. The problem is we live in a condo so we have a small porch outside. We can only brew at night after our 1 year old goes to sleep at 6, so we stay up really late on brew night! We may have to buy one of those stoves and give it a try....or insulate the pot. That also looks interesting. 220 may be a typo....it was close to midnight, but it did eventually get over 200 F with no actual bubbling boil. Definite movement in the wort, swirling around, but it was not bubbling like pasta water would.
This is our 4th batch, 2nd with the mash tun. We used two separate pots for the boil last time since we didn't have one large enough. It should turn out ok I think since it was still very hot.