newbie booboo

[MrDon]

I had apples coming out my ears this year from my orchard with about a dozen trees near Champaign IL so I decided to try to make my first batch of hard cider from juice that I had pressed myself. Fortunately there is a liquor store nearby (Friar Tuck) that has all the needed supplies so I got a couple of 5 gal buckets and filled them up. I used champagne yeast with a starter and put campden tablets in one bucket but not the other.

Nothing had happened after a few days and I went away for the Thanksgiving holiday thinking that there would be some action upon my return, but still no luck. Finally I went to the store and relayed my plight to the resident expert who asked me if I had sealed the lid tightly. Duh. Somehow I had overlooked this very basic concept. Silly me.

Now it's about two weeks after having started this process and two days after tightening the lids. There is a lot of foam on top of the cider and I'm only getting about 2-4 gurgles per minute in the airlocks (the bucket with the campden is producing less).

So my question is: Do you think that the cider has become contaminated and it's time to throw it out or should I be more patient and see what develops? At the moment I'm keeping it in a cellar that is running a bit cool (45-50 degrees) due to the current cold snap.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

As long as they were covered, even loosely, it should be ok. If it's bubbling now, chances are you are fine if you were good with sanitation in the beginning. The low temps might cause them to stall though. You should try and get them up at least to the high 50s if possible.

 

[MrDon]

"As long as they were covered, even loosely, it should be ok."

Well, that's somewhat encouraging at least. I have moved both buckets to a partially heated room in my house where I can monitor them more closely.

I'm hoping that my sanitation was adequate, but since this was my first attempt, I can't be really sure.

How would I know if things are not going so well?

 

[WilliamSlayer]

"As long as they were covered, even loosely, it should be ok."

Well, that's somewhat encouraging at least. I have moved both buckets to a partially heated room in my house where I can monitor them more closely.

I'm hoping that my sanitation was adequate, but since this was my first attempt, I can't be really sure.

How would I know if things are not going so well?

Smell, taste, or sight all will clue you in on different problems, but it sounds like you have a good ferment going. Keepin mind that champagne yeast is a great workhorse, but produces very dry cider. I've heard many first timers panic because their cider tastes so different from what they think of as "cider". Keep us posted.

Good luck!

 

[MrDon]

Smell, taste, or sight all will clue you in on different problems, but it sounds like you have a good ferment going. Keepin mind that champagne yeast is a great workhorse, but produces very dry cider. I've heard many first timers panic because their cider tastes so different from what they think of as "cider". Keep us posted.

Good luck!

I think I know the feeling you're talking about.

I brought it inside where the temp is about 60 degrees, but I'm still only getting about 3 gurgles per minute. There is some foam in the bucket with the campden tabs, but the one with all the wild yeast is almost flat on top. The SG has gone from 1.050 to 1.030. It sure doesn't taste like cider any more. The smell is somewhat yeasty and the taste is a tad sour. Nothing I'd want to drink for sure at this point.

Is there anything I can do to rescue it? Sugar? More yeast? Stirring?

 

[Randzor]

Mr don let it finish. Yeast tastes bad. So right you are tasting alot if year and some semi fermented cider. It will get better.

 

[MrDon]

Mr don let it finish. Yeast tastes bad. So right you are tasting alot if year and some semi fermented cider. It will get better.

Thanks for the consolation. Is there anything else I can do to jumpstart the fermentation tho?

 

[Randzor]

How warm is your fermentation? If in the 65+ range try adding some nutrient in boiled Water to the must. If its lower than 65 bring it up to that temp.

 

[HAREEBROWNBEEST]

Be patient, it sounds to me like you just need to let it warm up. Give it a couple weeks, i know its hard to let alone ( i check mine constantly)

 

[WilliamSlayer]

I agree. As long as your numbers are dropping you seem to have a decent ferment going. Be patient, relax and have a homebrew!

 

[Xantus954]

Yep as long as the gravity keeps dropping you should be fine. Homebrew requires a lot of patience. Low temps will make the yeast work slower as well. You don't want a lot of temperature fluctuation while its fermenting though, this can stress the yeast and produce off flavors. So I would leave it where it is. Maybe give the Edwort's Apfelwein thread a read since what your making sounds very similar.

Also just so you know, the yeast you chose will leave you with a dry cider at the end. Which will be tart, and especially at first may not taste very well until it ages out a bit. I'd give it about 4 weeks to finish fermenting and age it a bit. Don't stress yourself counting airlock bubbles, I've had batches were the airlock never did a thing and they turned out fine. Relax Don't Worry Have a Homebrew!

 

[MrDon]

How warm is your fermentation? If in the 65+ range try adding some nutrient in boiled Water to the must. If its lower than 65 bring it up to that temp.

My temp is up to 60 degrees now. May have to find an additional heater to bump it up the rest of the way since it's in a back room.

Went to my local wine making supply store today and found that they had yeast nutrient (food grade urea & diammonium phosphate) as well as yeast energizer (diammonium phosphate, springcell & magnesium sulphate) so I got both of them. Do you have a preference for either or can I use both as some people suggest in other forums?

 

[MrDon]

Maybe give the Edwort's Apfelwein thread a read since what your making sounds very similar.

Also just so you know, the yeast you chose will leave you with a dry cider at the end. Which will be tart, and especially at first may not taste very well until it ages out a bit. I'd give it about 4 weeks to finish fermenting and age it a bit. Don't stress yourself counting airlock bubbles, I've had batches were the airlock never did a thing and they turned out fine. Relax Don't Worry Have a Homebrew!

Actually that Edwort's Apfelwein does sound interesting. Need to see if the Red Star Montrachet yeast and the dextrose are available tomorrow when I go to town. I have a couple of more gallons of cider in my fridge that is starting to go hard on me naturally that I should do something with and this sounds like a worthy experiment.

Since this cider probably already has wild yeast in it, would you add campden tablets to it or leave it as is?

After lurking around in these cider forums a bit I'm seeing that some folks leave their cider fermenting for months at a time, so perhaps I was being a bit impatient in expecting it to be ready in a couple of weeks.

 

[Xantus954]

I always have a batch of Edwort's Apfelwein going, i find its best if you let it age for at least 6 months before starting to drink it but I would definitely recommend taste testing it at different intervals for your first batch. Its very interesting to see how the flavor changes along the way. With this batch it doesn't sound like there was any added sugars, so the alcohol content will be lower and it won't need as much time to age.

I would use campden on the cider if it hasn't been pasteurized just to be safe, as I mentioned before it takes months for some of these to reach there peak in flavor and I'd hate to have all the time, effort, and ingredients ruined. Just make sure you wait at least 24 hours after adding it to pitch your yeast.

 

[MrDon]

I would use campden on the cider if it hasn't been pasteurized just to be safe, as I mentioned before it takes months for some of these to reach there peak in flavor and I'd hate to have all the time, effort, and ingredients ruined. Just make sure you wait at least 24 hours after adding it to pitch your yeast.

Actually, I haven't started the apfelwein yet so I still have the option of pastuerizing it if you think that would be preferable to using the campden tablets. I gather that I would need to cook the fresh cider at 170 degrees for about 20 minutes to do that, right?

Sorry to be so cautious about it but I'm trying to do a better job this time.

 

[Xantus954]

Actually, I haven't started the apfelwein yet so I still have the option of pastuerizing it if you think that would be preferable to using the campden tablets. I gather that I would need to cook the fresh cider at 170 degrees for about 20 minutes to do that, right?

Sorry to be so cautious about it but I'm trying to do a better job this time.

I'd just use the campden, bringing the cider up in temp can cause other issues. Pectin can cause haziness in the finished product from what I've read.

 

[Newsman]

You might want to pick up some pectic enzyme as well, to help with the clarity of your finished cider. I've been told that not using pectinase will tend to leave you with cloudy cider. Nothing wrong with that, per se, just that it's not "pretty."