New Pots and Upgrade Paths

[centex99]

So, I'm wanting to get some stainless pots... currently have a small aluminum and a 5 gallon igloo which work ok for 5 gallon batches, but am wanting to upgrade to be capable of 10 gallon batches... I'm also considering going all electric, but haven't made up my mind yet. I may use a burner temporarily and go electric in the future. I was thinking I wanted 3x the same size for HLT, MT, and BOIL... but am not sure. I say I'll likely do 60-80% 5 gallon batches and the rest of the time 10 gallon batches.
I'm looking at the Concord pots, and considering the cheaper 1mm ones, or perhaps the tri-ply bottomed 1.2mm pots. I was originally thinking 3x 15 gallons, then thinking 3x 20 gallon... but am also wondering if maybe I should get 2x 15 plus a 20 (boil)...
Also trying to figure out if I want to go weldless... also what all I want to put on the pots in terms of fittings...
I'm likely to end up buying a pump or two and would consider a plate chiller over my current wort chillers that I have... I'm really just lost on what all I want to upgrade to. I want to do everything in steps so I can spread the cost out over a year or so vs dropping 3k in one month...

 

[IvanBrew]

If you're going to stick with 5-10 gallon batches, I wouldn't go any larger than 15 gallon for your mash tun. I have a 20, and I'd have a VERY shallow grain bed if I tried to do a 5 gallon batch in it.

At 10 gallon, you'll want 12-14 gallon of runoff at the start of boil, so a 20 gal boil kettle is a pretty good option.

I'd say go 10-15 for MT and HLT and 15-20 for your BK.

FWIW, I run 20, 20, and 30 and I'm doing 15 gallon batches. I love getting a 1/2 bbl of beer for the same amount of work I used to put into a 5 gal batch...

 

[centex99]

So... two 15 gallons and a 20 gallon should be a good setup... Anyone have experience on the slightly better Concord pots vs the more standard 1mm models?
Also, if I'd like to eventually use these with pump(s) and perhaps convert them to electric, what ports would everyone recommend I put on them... obviously a sight glass on the HLT for measuring water transfers. I'll likely buy pots now, then modify them as needed, then add a pump, then decide if I want to build a nice stand or go electric...

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

I use the concords in my eHERMS, I got the cheaper ones without the tri-layer bottom because it wasn't necessary. Overall I'm pretty satisfied with them.

 

[centex99]

Any more recommendations on how to spend my money? Seems the pots were on sale 3 days ago for 10% off, but now back to regular price... I wonder how often they have these "sales"...

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

Any more recommendations on how to spend my money? Seems the pots were on sale 3 days ago for 10% off, but now back to regular price... I wonder how often they have these "sales"...

Pretty often, you won't have to wait long.

 

[TNugent]

I plan on doing strictly 10 gal batches but I went with the 2x15 and a 20 gal for the BK. I was able to get all the off EBay for $300 delivered. If your interested I can find the seller info,I think he has more. I originally ordered 3x15 but he contacted me and offered to send me a 20 at no extra charge. That way he could nest one of the kettles and the savings in shipping costs was better than the extra cost of the 20 vs the 15 so it worked out great for me.

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[centex99]

Anyone know the quality difference between the concord's with the steamer inserts (flat top) vs the ones without (more of a domed/edgy pot)? I'm not referring to the 3-ply 1.2mm versions though...

 

[sandyeggoxj]

When I ran keggles I could do 5 and 10-gallon all grains very well. The high-gravity 10-gallon batches took a little more watching. I had poor burner heat control so boil overs were a problem with 10-gallon batches and my boil off rate was high so my pre-boil volume was high to compensate. IF, and I use if with a lot of emphasis, you ONLY want to go to 10-gallons then 15-gallon pots will be fine. But if you are addicted like I am then you will soon find them lacking. But, FWIW, the amount of money you have invested isn't too much and you can sell the lot and go bigger as you need for each vessel.

If you know anyone that can sanitary weld for a reasonable price then go that route, otherwise weldless will work. It is really nice to not have to worry about o-rings leaking, breaking, etc and know that your welds will always be there.

 

[centex99]

I'm thinking about using a tool and solder on my fittings... thoughts? 3x 15 gallon was my first thought... but, a 20 gallon boil kettle isn't a horrible idea... something in between would be perfect though.

 

[centex99]

On that note.. if I do a 20 gallon boil kettle and 5 gallon batches... would a whirlpool port at the top still work or does the whirlpool port need to be close to the liquid level? I'm thinking I'd whirlpool + immersion chiller... will that work in the future if I go to an electric setup or will I have issues with the pickup tube/burner/etc?

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Whirlpool port as in tangential inlet? That would go at the bottom...

 

[centex99]

I've read all kinds of answers on if that should go on the bottom, near the top, in between the two... I guess if it needed to go near the top, could have two ports... one for 5G batches and one for 10G batches... or just two swapable outlets, one bent more to go down for the 5G... or the simpler method of put it on the bottom... Would you not prefer it higher to push the cooler wart through the warmer to help aid in cooling?

 

[centex99]

So if I go with a 15G boil kettle... don't plan on doing batches over 10G (finished)... do I need a 15G pot for HLT and MT or would 10 work for either of those...

 

[sandyeggoxj]

You could go 10 on the hlt. How big of beers do you make and what grist ratio do you use? There was a mash tun calculator i saw somewhere that spelled it out nicely. It helped you figure out how much grain you could pack into a mlt at a given grist ratio. I think 15 gal mlt and bk would work. But these are just opinions and preferences here...

 

[centex99]

So I ordered a 15G (HLT) and a 20G (boil) for now... will upgrade mash tun at a later time/date..
So now I'm piecing together (cheaper) pieces for pickups, etc... Here's what I'm thinking...
90 degree elbows for pickups with close nipple + o-ring/locknut/washer... 3 piece ball valve on outside...
a kit sight glass
a thermometer + o-ring/locknut/washer...
And I'm also thinking about doing a whirlpool port on the boil kettle with a compression fit tube (like the brewhardware high port version)... I'm just now trying to figure out how to arrange those 4 holes on the boil kettle...
Any suggestions/ideas/alternatives to what I'm leaning towards?

 

[purplehaze]

I have found that a lot of kettles are smaller than advertized. Ask the seller for interior dimensions and do the math or check this link for actual capacity http://merrycuss.com/calc/kettle_volume.html

I bought a 25 gallons BK for 20 gallon batches. It is 1.5 gallons short of the advertised capacity. With each gallon measuring only 3/4" in height that does not leave a lot of room for expansion during a boil.

 

[dfess1]

Here's what I can offer after 2 years on my single tier and 3 15 gal pots. If I were to do it again, I would get a 20 gal pot, with a FB, as well as a FB for the 15 gal. My 10 gal 1.50-60ish beers fit fine in my 15 gal MLT. But 10 gal of a RIS? Not gonna happen. At that point, i'd use the 20 gal for my MLT, and swap the normal 15 MLT to the BK for the brew. I would stick with a 15 gal HLT as well. At pots that large, you're most likely going to be using pumps. When I do a 10 gal batch of a high gravity beer, I almost always to a second runnings. Getting two beers out of the same grain bed. At that point, you really end up batch sparging your second runnings (if you're making use of your time). Drain your HLT/sparge water into the MLT on the second runnings, rinse out the HLT, then collect back into it and kick off the boil on the second beer, all while your first one is chugging along.

Just food for thought.

 

[centex99]

I already bought a 20g for boil and 15g for hlt... I'll likely but another 20 for mash or get a larger cooler...

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[dfess1]

I already bought a 20g for boil and 15g for hlt... I'll likely but another 20 for mash or get a larger cooler...

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I guess what I'm saying is you can use the 20 gal as either a BK or a MLT, if you set it up correctly. Use it as a MLT when doing a big beer. Use it as a BK any other time.

 

[centex99]

Interesting thought... would a 20G be too large (diameter wise) to do 5 gallon batches? I'd assume it'd work for any size 10G batch... Would the 15G work ok for 5 gallon batches?
(purely for MT here)... I know the 20G will work for 5 or 10G boils... but may have a bit more evaporation to deal with but can add water to account for that.

 

[centex99]

In regards to the boil pot though... I'm currently thinking about the following arrangement
in center down low, 90 degree on inside connected to 3pc valve + camlock, directly above that at top of pot, a camlock going into pot with a 90deg compression fitting on it with downtube (2x sizes to change btw 5/10G batches) for whirlpooling...
to the right of that a sight glass and to the left of that mounted at ~ 4 gallon mark a thermometer...

 

[centex99]

Any thoughts? Another option is to omit the sightglass altogether and just etch the inside with marks...

 

[dfess1]

I would use the 15 gal for 5 gal boils, and the 20 for 10 gal boils.

In terms of the pickup tube for the kettle, I just have a piece of tubing that comes out of the back of the ball valve, does a hard 90 and rests up against the side of the pot. My whirlpool port sits about 3" off the bottom of the pot, and is just another ball valve on the outside, with a 90* elbow on the inside, that has a 45* tube out of it, that pretty much repeats the diameter of the pot. It can be used for both 5 and 10 gal batches. Nothing pretty. But it gets the job done.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sure a 20 will "work" for five gallon batches, but I would find it inconvenient and overly large, a 20 gal is a damn big pot!

 

[63belair]

I would use the 15 gal for 5 gal boils, and the 20 for 10 gal boils.

In terms of the pickup tube for the kettle, I just have a piece of tubing that comes out of the back of the ball valve, does a hard 90 and rests up against the side of the pot. My whirlpool port sits about 3" off the bottom of the pot, and is just another ball valve on the outside, with a 90* elbow on the inside, that has a 45* tube out of it, that pretty much repeats the diameter of the pot. It can be used for both 5 and 10 gal batches. Nothing pretty. But it gets the job done.

+1 I would just re-arrange the pots depending on what size batch you want to do, that way you still maintain flexability and scalability in your brewery

 

[centex99]

That makes sense, but right now I have a 15 and a 20 that I plan to setup as HLT/boil... I was thinking of ordering another 20 to make a mash tun (possible do RIMS with it)... I currently have a 10G cooler for a mash tun which I could keep and use for 5G batches, but would prefer to just use the 20G mash tun for all batches if it'll work and I won't have issues with too shallow of a grain bed...
I guess if doing a 5G batch I could swap the 15/20G pots and use the 15G for boil and the 20 for a HLT...