New, larger kettle for biab. A few questions I couldn't find answers to

[Coolhand78]

Hi everyone, I'm an extract brewer considering moving to biab to both make better beer, and also save a little $ rather than spending it on extract recipe kits.

So, to do a 5 gallon biab, I'm thinking I need to upgrade my brew kettle. A little more information about my anticipated setup, which may be worth consideration to my decision: 1) I will be brewing on my gas stovetop, which has a "power burner". I don't anticipate moving beyond stovetop brewing anytime soon (if ever). 2) I have a very large kitchen sink right near my stove which makes ice baths easy. I don't really have a desire to get an immersion chiller.

Here are my questions:

1. What size kettle? I'm thinking 10 gallon, but is 8 gallon sufficient, especially if I want to try making some "bigger" beers? I've even seen some people suggest a 15 gallon kettle, but I'm thinking that isn't reasonable for stovetop brewing.
2. Should I get something with a false bottom or one of those lift-out baskets? Are they unnecessary, just nice to have, or totally worth it?
3. Since I plan on using ice baths to chill my wort, does that mean I shouldn't get a kettle with a ball valve? I'm not sure if it's ok, or not a good idea to submerge a kettle with a ball valve into ice water. Sanitation issue?
4. If I don't have a ball valve, I imagine that I'll need to auto-siphon into my primary fermenter? I can't really imagine having to lift and pour 5 gallons into my funnel on top of my carboy.
5. Stainless steel or aluminum? I'm thinking aluminum because of better heat conduction and cheaper, but is stainless steel worth it for being a sturdier design when handling it?

Is there anything else I ought to consider? Thanks so much for your help!

 

[TexasWine]

Hi everyone, I'm an extract brewer considering moving to biab to both make better beer, and also save a little $ rather than spending it on extract recipe kits.

So, to do a 5 gallon biab, I'm thinking I need to upgrade my brew kettle. A little more information about my anticipated setup, which may be worth consideration to my decision: 1) I will be brewing on my gas stovetop, which has a "power burner". I don't anticipate moving beyond stovetop brewing anytime soon (if ever). 2) I have a very large kitchen sink right near my stove which makes ice baths easy. I don't really have a desire to get an immersion chiller.

Here are my questions:

1. What size kettle? I'm thinking 10 gallon, but is 8 gallon sufficient, especially if I want to try making some "bigger" beers? I've even seen some people suggest a 15 gallon kettle, but I'm thinking that isn't reasonable for stovetop brewing.
2. Should I get something with a false bottom or one of those lift-out baskets? Are they unnecessary, just nice to have, or totally worth it?
3. Since I plan on using ice baths to chill my wort, does that mean I shouldn't get a kettle with a ball valve? I'm not sure if it's ok, or not a good idea to submerge a kettle with a ball valve into ice water. Sanitation issue?
4. If I don't have a ball valve, I imagine that I'll need to auto-siphon into my primary fermenter? I can't really imagine having to lift and pour 5 gallons into my funnel on top of my carboy.
5. Stainless steel or aluminum? I'm thinking aluminum because of better heat conduction and cheaper, but is stainless steel worth it for being a sturdier design when handling it?

Is there anything else I ought to consider? Thanks so much for your help!

Hey Coolhand. Pretty new to BIAB myself, but I'll chime in with my experience.

1. I use a 9 gallon Bayou Classic pot on my stove top. I was limited to something 15 inches in height, and it is perfect. I too have no plans to move to a larger outdoor burner or set up as I can actually straddle two stove burners with that pot and reach strike and boiling very quickly.

2. False bottoms and baskets aren't required. Some people fire during mash and use the bottom or basket to keep the bag off the bottom. However, if you insulate well you will not need to apply heat. With that being said, I use a basket to support the bag as it drains into the kettle after mash.

3. Investigate the no chill method and you might talk yourself out of even using ice baths.

4. Use a bucket to ferment in and just pour everything, trub and all, into it. And don't worry about using secondary. You'll be surprised.

5. No opinion on this one. Either works.

 

[RM-MN]

I've done several 5 gallon batches on the stovetop with a 30 qt turkey fryer pot. It's tight but it can be done. The biggest beer I did was an 1.070 OG batch that was an accident as I didn't realize how high my efficiency would be and was planning on a 1.055. If you use one of this size pots you'll have to watch how much water and grain will fit and you likely will need to sparge to get to the preboil volume. You'll also have to really watch as you come to a boil as the hot break of the all grain will easily boil over.

 

[wilserbrewer]

1. Ten gallon
2. False bottom / strainer baskets are unnecessary IMO. A voile bag is plenty strong without a basket. Stirring while adding heat gently (if needed) will prevent scorching the bag. You shouldn't need to add heat while the bag is in the pot, but stirring while gentle heating to make a minor adjustment works.
3. Ball valve is optional, if I were to ice bath with a ball valve I would spray up into the outside of the ball valve with star san prior to draining.
4. You can use a racking cane and tubing to drain the kettle as well or an auto siphon. Fill the racking cane w/ sanitizer using a dollar store turkey baster to start the siphon, and discard the sanitizer as the beer starts flowing. A valve will save you a couple minutes, but once you become proficient with a racking cane, it's not a big deal at all IMO. You can also use a 2 quart sanitized plastic pitcher to transfer the wort to the fermenter, then pour the last gallon or so.
5. Alum or stainless / both work fine. Alum may heat quicker and chill quicker, stainless is prettier....personal opinion.

If you are strong enough and your oven is big enough, placing the kettle with the mash in a warm oven works great to keep the temps steady, or you can just wrap the kettle in towels / blankets / winter coat.

You could also consider no chill in the kettle and fermenting in your kettle. BIAB can be very simple with minimal inexpensive equipment.

cheers!
wilser

 

[fuzzy2133]

What they ^^^ said. If you have not done so run a test boil with water to be sure the cook top can boil 6+ gallons. Hate to see you get the mash finished to find all the cook top can do is simmer the water.

 

[ODI3]

Hiya,

1) Stainless vs Aluminum
-Stainless is more expensive, and doesnt conduct heat as well.

the aluminum kettle will heat up and cool down significantly faster. If i were to guess, id say like 30% faster? This is significant if your burner is underpowered for the amount of volume you are boiling. Unfortunately the aluminum also cools much faster and makes keeping a stable mash temp a bit harder, I think my alum pot goes from 152 to 142 if left on the stove for an hour mash.

2)Ball valve
If you decide to get a ball valve, it might get in the way when you are trying to put in the sink, but i dont think its that big of a deal from a sanitation standpoint. Just give it a squirt of starsan before emptying the kettle.

Aluminum is much softer, if you decide to get a ball valve and go aluminum, be sure to get a thicker aluminum pot to avoid leaks, otherwise if no ball valve, thin aluminum is fine. You will never burn through it when there is liquid in it.

3)Kettle size
I would completely go 10 gal over 8. It will prevent boilovers and give you a bit more flexibility for higher gravity beer if you choose. Besides the price is basically the same. I wouldnt go 15, its too large to manage in a kitchen.

4)Filtering
I personally dont like autosyphons. they are a pain to clean and break easily.
If you choose not to use a ball valve, and ferment in a carboy, you could try something like this:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsIrESvIYAAEuCF.jpg
John, a brewer in my club calls it a "hop cobra". its a piece of copper that fits around the bottom inside of your kettle, the copper has small holes on the bottom to suck wort via syphon, then has aluminum mesh to help filter out the hops. While I havent tried it, he says it works quite well. It can be added in last 10 min of boil to sanitize as well so maintenance is a breeze.


If I were you:
-If my stove had difficulty getting 8 gal up to boil, I would go with a thick 10 Gal aluminum Pot with ball valve, otherwise a 10 gal SS pot with ball valve.
-50ft 1/2 inch Immersion Chiller (I dont like moving 5 gallons of hot wort, and ice baths take too long)
-I use a Black Rhyno filter(I just posted a discussion about it in the DIY section, basically just a milk crate frame with swiss voil clipped to top to filter)
-Ferment in either buckets or SS pots. (Glass carboys are very dangerous and hard to clean, I prefer fermenters with large open tops)

 

[ODI3]

If liquid is cool, I just stick a pen with ink part removed into the hose and suck on the pen to start the syphon.
I dont like baskets either.

 

[WayFrae]

Here are my answers to your questions:


1.) I have a 10 gallon and wish I had bought a 15 gallon because I like to brew big beers so the extra headspace would make it easier. That being said, I successfully mashed a 17 lbs grain bill in my 10 gallon kettle. Did I spill? Oh yeah, a ton. I was grateful to be brewing outdoors.

Should I get something with a false bottom or one of those lift-out baskets? Are they unnecessary, just nice to have, or totally worth it?

2.) I don't use one of those baskets or false bottoms. I just use a large voile bag and I even turn on the burner half way through the mash to increase the mash temp. I can see how it could be nice but I think they are unnecessary.

3.) Ball valve shouldn't be a problem as long as you keep it clean. However, it will take you forever to chill using an ice bath. It will take you hours to chill 5 gallons of wort to pitching temp in an ice bath. If I were you, I would either do the "no chill" method or seriously reconsider using an immersion or plate chiller.

4.) I find that an autosiphon works great to transfer from BK to carboy. Pouring is also an option which I have used before but the siphon just makes it 100x easier.

5.) I honestly love my aluminum pot. It is very heavy gauge and sturdier than most other stainless pots I have seen. Just be sure to create the passivation layer before brewing in it and don't let any PBW or other oxygen based cleaners touch it. I got my aluminum pot for half of what I was going to pay for stainless steel. That extra money went towards an immersion chiller for me.

 

[Coolhand78]

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies. You've been extremely helpful. Now I guess I just have to wait for a good price on a 10 gallon Aluminum kettle with a ball valve!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Only 30 qt., but could get you started till you find better...

http://madison.craigslist.org/for/4537213020.html

http://madison.craigslist.org/spo/4550864718.html

 

[KeninMN]

At Menards you can get a 30-qt aluminum fryer pot and burner combo:

http://www.menards.com/main/spring-fever/grills-smokers/30-quart-aluminum-turkey-fryer/p-1929564-c-10141.htm

 

[jCOSbrew]

10 gal is great for 5-6 gallon batches.
You can make a high gravity brew by mashing w/ approx 6 gallons and top off kettle to desired pre-boil volume after the mash. Make sure you can boil 6+ gallons w/out the lid on the kettle for full volume all grain.

 

[ClemTiger0408]

10 gal is great for 5-6 gallon batches.
You can make a high gravity brew by mashing w/ approx 6 gallons and top off kettle to desired pre-boil volume after the mash. Make sure you can boil 6+ gallons w/out the lid on the kettle for full volume all grain.

Any negatives to doing this? You can get same efficiencies from the grain if the water to grain ratio is lower during the mash?

I've come super close to the top of my 10 gallon kettle on some larger beers. I am pretty much stuck at nothing higher than 1.065 ish.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Any negatives to doing this? You can get same efficiencies from the grain if the water to grain ratio is lower during the mash?



I've come super close to the top of my 10 gallon kettle on some larger beers. I am pretty much stuck at nothing higher than 1.065 ish.

You are not stuck at all IMO, You can add a simple sparge and reach much higher gravities with your 10 gallon kettle. Either a dunk sparge, or pouring sparge water over / through the bag will get you larger grain bills and higher gravity.

Even a cold water sparge works.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[RM-MN]

Any negatives to doing this? You can get same efficiencies from the grain if the water to grain ratio is lower during the mash?

I've come super close to the top of my 10 gallon kettle on some larger beers. I am pretty much stuck at nothing higher than 1.065 ish.

Whoa! I've done a 1.072 with a turkey fryer and a small sparge. The ticket is to use less grain and get your efficiency up. Mill your grain super fine and you'll get better efficiency. Keep your boil under control so you don't need a lot of excess water to boil away. Don't leave anything behind when you transfer the wort to the fermenter. You should be getting 80 to 90% efficiency with BIAB.:rockin:

 

[ClemTiger0408]

Whoa! I've done a 1.072 with a turkey fryer and a small sparge. The ticket is to use less grain and get your efficiency up. Mill your grain super fine and you'll get better efficiency. Keep your boil under control so you don't need a lot of excess water to boil away. Don't leave anything behind when you transfer the wort to the fermenter. You should be getting 80 to 90% efficiency with BIAB.:rockin:

Oh no. This discussion again. I've had such efficiency issues with BIAB. On Saturday I brewed and treated my water pH for the first time. Post-Mash efficiency was 82% and SG efficiency was 72%. I have no idea how this could have dropped when I didn't dilute.

 

[WayFrae]

Any negatives to doing this? You can get same efficiencies from the grain if the water to grain ratio is lower during the mash?

I've come super close to the top of my 10 gallon kettle on some larger beers. I am pretty much stuck at nothing higher than 1.065 ish.

I do no sparge BIAB in a 10 gallon pot and the biggest beer I have brewed in it was a 1.087 double IPA. It was filled to the brim but I got it brewed!

 

[fuzzy2133]

I do no sparge BIAB in a 10 gallon pot and the biggest beer I have brewed in it was a 1.087 double IPA. It was filled to the brim but I got it brewed!

I have gone back to basic no sparge too. Just squeeze that bag like it owes you 100 grand!

 

[WI_Wino]

I can't say enough about how great my experiences with Ritebrew have been. He doesn't carry everything under the sun but I haven't found many brewing supplies that I need that he doesn't carry. Also with the Speedee delivery, if I order by 1 PM or so it's at my house the NEXT day. And he is the cheapest on everything with shipping included.

Here's a link to his brew pots:
http://www.ritebrew.com/category-s/1931.htm

I bought a bag from wilserbrewer and love it. 15 batches in or so I think. Biggest I did was a RIS with a 23 lb grain bill. Major PITA to lift up but the bag had no issues.

 

[sensei9]

At Menards you can get a 30-qt aluminum fryer pot and burner combo:

http://www.menards.com/main/spring-fever/grills-smokers/30-quart-aluminum-turkey-fryer/p-1929564-c-10141.htm

I like this set up, but does anyone know if the spigot on the pot can be replaced with a ball valve? would that even be necessary?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Can't really tell anything from the blurry pic, but that valve should work...likely not super high quality, but should work if it can be used for frying and draining oil.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[jCOSbrew]

Any negatives to doing this? You can get same efficiencies from the grain if the water to grain ratio is lower during the mash?

I've come super close to the top of my 10 gallon kettle on some larger beers. I am pretty much stuck at nothing higher than 1.065 ish.

FYI, with 6 gallons of water you are still at 1.25 qt/lb with a 19 lb grain bill.
Full volume BIAB is a very thin mash, typical mash is 1.25-2 qt/lb.