New chiller performance

[TennBrewer]

I brewed up a 5 gallon batch of American Session Ale, an extract kit from Northern Brewer yesterday and used my new copper 25' 3/8" immersion chiller. I've read several posts and articles about ICs, CFs, and plate chillers so I thought I'd start out with the basic copper IC. Previously, I was using just a water bath to cool down the 40 quart boil kettle, circulating the bath water from the house supply with a garden hose. It would take about 40 minutes to bring the temperature down to 70 degrees so I could pitch the yeast. I set up a system where I could use both the water bath and the chiller, thinking this would bring the temperature down quicker than either alone. In order to keep the water bath circulating with cool water from the garden hose, I acquired a small 80 GPH submersible pump and placed it in a large plastic cooler filled with cold water and connected the pump outlet hose to the IC sitting in the BK. I got a good flow going and it was coming out quite warm so I knew it was pulling heat out of the wort. Just to get things going, I also stirred the wort to keep it circulating around the IC. I was able to bring the temperature down to about 65 degrees but it still took 40 minutes! Is there something wrong with what I am doing? I can only think of a couple of things to change: 1) connect the house water supply to the IC for faster flow rate and just use ice to cool the water bath, and/or 2) use a larger IC, either 1/2" OD, 50' length, or both.

Should I try a counter flow chiller or plate chiller instead? How about flowing the wort through the copper chiller sitting in an ice water bath and into the primary fermenter?

 

[C-Rider]

Try stirring the wort as the water runs thru the coil, should speed it up a bit.

 

[TennBrewer]

Try stirring the wort as the water runs thru the coil, should speed it up a bit.

I did that, although not constantly but quite a bit.

 

[WI_Wino]

I brewed up a 5 gallon batch of American Session Ale, an extract kit from Northern Brewer yesterday and used my new copper 25' 3/8" immersion chiller. I've read several posts and articles about ICs, CFs, and plate chillers so I thought I'd start out with the basic copper IC. Previously, I was using just a water bath to cool down the 40 quart boil kettle, circulating the bath water from the house supply with a garden hose. It would take about 40 minutes to bring the temperature down to 70 degrees so I could pitch the yeast. I set up a system where I could use both the water bath and the chiller, thinking this would bring the temperature down quicker than either alone. In order to keep the water bath circulating with cool water from the garden hose, I acquired a small 80 GPH submersible pump and placed it in a large plastic cooler filled with cold water and connected the pump outlet hose to the IC sitting in the BK. I got a good flow going and it was coming out quite warm so I knew it was pulling heat out of the wort. Just to get things going, I also stirred the wort to keep it circulating around the IC. I was able to bring the temperature down to about 65 degrees but it still took 40 minutes! Is there something wrong with what I am doing? I can only think of a couple of things to change: 1) connect the house water supply to the IC for faster flow rate and just use ice to cool the water bath, and/or 2) use a larger IC, either 1/2" OD, 50' length, or both.

Should I try a counter flow chiller or plate chiller instead? How about flowing the wort through the copper chiller sitting in an ice water bath and into the primary fermenter?

My guess is your pump is too small. I have a 1/3 HP sump pump that pushes up to 40 GPM or 2400 GPH. I cooled a 6 gallon (end of boil) batch to 64F in ~20 minutes with a 25' 3/8" copper IC. I have ~45 gallons of water in a barrel in my garage that I use to recirculate. Initial temp of that water was right around 32 F. Before the pump I would run a hose from my well's pressure tank to the IC and discharge into my driveway. That was taking about 20 minutes to chill same size batch. My well water is a consistent 50F-55F year round. I also stir the wort fairly constantly during chilling.

 

[pointcity-homebrew]

Did you add ice throughout the process? You have to remember the water is being heated as it flows through the chiller, if you are recirculating warm water it will not be very effective.

I have about the same setup as you, I add a frozen bottle of water or two to keep my water cooled.

Off Topic-BTW, I grew up in Memphis(Bartlett) and visit my Pops 5 times or so a year. Have you been to Wiseacre's tap room?

 

[flars]

Connecting your immersion chiller to the house water supply and using the ice bath, with stirring, would probably work the fastest. The water temperature of your house supply would be the limiting factor with the immersion chiller.

Pumping water, that is chilled with the ice, through the immersion chiller may work better, if you have a good supply of ice.

 

[d3track]

Connecting your immersion chiller to the house water supply and using the ice bath, with stirring, would probably work the fastest. The water temperature of your house supply would be the limiting factor with the immersion chiller.

Pumping water, that is chilled with the ice, through the immersion chiller may work better, if you have a good supply of ice.

The temp of the water is the key, as stated above. That's why so many have good success pushing ice water through the chiller with pumps.

 

[ram5ey]

I'm also voting for the pump. I have a 400gph and I kinda wish I had a bigger one. Just my thoughts.

 

[Kampenken]

I built two coils, both out of 3/8" OD for my IC, a bit concerned diameter would be too small, but a 60' coil for about $30 from Lowes sold me! My BK is 8g, 14" dia, 12" high. The outer coil is 10"dia, inner is about 4.5"+ dia. I cool 5.5-6g of wort in less than 15min to 68! I run the tap water for 3-5 min (depending on time of yr) to ~110, then follow up with an ice bath cooler and a very small submersible pump (~211gph). It doesn't run fast, but does the job! I'm always surprised at how quickly I get the wort to cool in comparison to others comments. I move the the coils slowly during the process, outer one up and down and slightly side to side (only ~1.5" to the BK wall), and the inner coil the same. This covers all the wort- which is why I sized the inner coil such. I also re-circulate the water from the ice bath after the first two min or so, at the end if I walk away the pump is safely under water, and I save water too.

Keys to me: 1) 2 Coils, cover all the wort area by moving 2) Cold ice bath 3) No need for high pressure, not sure where the sweet spot is, but too much is not good I've read, can't prove it

Works well for me, and I re-purpose the hot water in buckets for cleaning too!

 

[Kampenken]

...Pumping water, that is chilled with the ice, through the immersion chiller may work better, if you have a good supply of ice.

I used to make my own ice blocks, now I simply freeze 2L bottles and pop back in the chest freezer when done! Easy and cheap ice!

 

[vincentAlpha]

After poking around on the forum here for a while I decided to go straight for a counterflow build since it involved only a bit more expense (well, technically it wound up double, but double $35 is still pretty cheap) and seemed like it would work a fair bit better than an immersion chiller of the same length. Also pretty nice how it is enclosed so I don't have a big wet coil kicking around my already cramped kitchen. Wound up with a 20' counterflow and it works really quite well. Drained 5 gallons in very little time and was likely almost too cold to pitch because of it (Newfoundland water can get pretty chilly).

 

[grrickar]

I used to make my own ice blocks, now I simply freeze 2L bottles and pop back in the chest freezer when done! Easy and cheap ice!

I do the exact same thing. Always comes in handy to fill a cooler with if you are going somewhere too - to mix in with bagged ice. Those bottles stay frozen a lot longer.

 

[TennBrewer]

Thanks, the water the pump is submersed in is pretty cold water ( < 60 deg.) but I will continue to monitor it and add ice when necessary. Most likely when the weather gets warmer I will need a lot more ice.
Off-Topic-I have not been to Wiseacre's, not sure where it is but it would be great to check it out, more info please.

 

[TennBrewer]

I picked up the little water pump pretty cheap (< $8) so I guess you really do get what you pay for. A little more investment should get me a pump with greater volume, but how much is enough and is it bad to have too much? This little pump puts out 80GPH, that's over a gallon a minute, as long as the lines don't have to push water up too high. In my case it's only about 6-8 inches or so. I am going to get a more powerful pump and test it out with just plain boiled water, don't want to waste a batch if it's not ready (alcohol abuse).

 

[pointcity-homebrew]

Thanks, the water the pump is submersed in is pretty cold water ( < 60 deg.) but I will continue to monitor it and add ice when necessary. Most likely when the weather gets warmer I will need a lot more ice.
Off-Topic-I have not been to Wiseacre's, not sure where it is but it would be great to check it out, more info please.

Wiseacre is on Broad Ave, they have some pretty good stuff pushing out of there. I am planning a taproom trip soon, as I hear it is top notch.

 

[Kampenken]

I picked up the little water pump pretty cheap (< $8) .... This little pump puts out 80GPH...don't have to push water up too high. In my case it's only about 6-8 inches or so.

I checked my order from Amazon, my 211 gph pump is $17, free shipping. I too push up very little, 8-10" to get out of my cooler, makes perfect sense to limit your losses. Also you noted previously that your water temp was <60. I'd hope so! I begin getting my cooler prepared in the last 10 min of boil, I feel that gets the water cooler, but haven't measured that. If all else fails you can also add salt, not sure amounts or even type, but a little research will likely answer that, to further drop water temps. I feel a low in the 30's is fine, and don't bother, sometimes simple is better! I don't have science behind this but the pump pressure and my two coil method, runs through 60' in total, does the trick for me.

Cheers

 

[Onkel_Udo]

little more investment should get me a pump with greater volume, but how much is enough and is it bad to have too much? This little pump puts out 80GPH, that's over a gallon a minute, as long as the lines don't have to push water up too high.

You are forgetting the (significant) losses from friction of pushing water through...what, 30'? My 3 GPM pump actually pushes about 1.5 GPM over 40' with 0 effective head.

 

[brick_haus]

I put my IC in a 10 gal. igloo add 10#s of ice and some water. Pump my wort through a plate chiller (hose water) then through the IC. That cools10 gallons of wort in 10 minutes or less. Comes out of the IC at 62*and goes directly into the fermentor.
I then circulate PBW mix/rinse/starsan through the system using my HLT while I'm cleaning up after the brew.

Takes a little more time to clean the system and cost more up front, but it works for me.

 

[grrickar]

Harbor Freight has a decent selection of fountain pumps, that is where I found mine...

 

[TennBrewer]

Thanks everybody. I got a bigger pump, 210 gph, it's all hooked up and today I am starting a batch of Cream Ale. The weather is fair with a high temp in the mid 50's so I'm going to give it a go. Before I start, I'm going to get 30 pounds of ice and really chill down the cooler, maybe more for the water bath, I dunno, we'll see.

 

[WI_Wino]

Thanks everybody. I got a bigger pump, 210 gph, it's all hooked up and today I am starting a batch of Cream Ale. The weather is fair with a high temp in the mid 50's so I'm going to give it a go. Before I start, I'm going to get 30 pounds of ice and really chill down the cooler, maybe more for the water bath, I dunno, we'll see.

Don't waste your ice on the first ~10 minutes of cooling. The temperature difference from your just boiled wort to your tap water temp is pretty high. Wait to use your ice until the temp difference is much lower.

 

[TennBrewer]

Thanks for that, I kinda figgered it would come out pretty hot at first.

Today I brewed up a batch 'o Cream Ale (NB extract kit) and got the chiller set up: wash tub filled with water and I tossed in the 30# of ice (still in the bag) to cool it down 15 minutes before the end of the boil. I put the new pump (201 gph) in the bottom of the ice chest and filled it half way with water from the hose, then I emptied all the ice into it.

When the boil was finished, I dropped the BK into the tub and hooked up the IC to the pump (love those QD's), started the timer and began to pump the ice water (34 deg). I let the output hose flow out for the first several minutes, topping off the ice chest as the level dropped. I left the garden hose flow a little water to circulate in the tub and cool down, it's surprising how warm the tub water gets so quickly. I began stirring the hot wort in the BK to circulate around the IC and did this for several minutes, watching the ice water level and topping off as needed. When the output water hose was still warm but no longer hot, I dropped it in the cooler so it would recirculate the ice water through the IC. I checked the wort temperature and after 7 minutes it was down below 130. A little more stirring, a little sip or two of HB (it's good to have a homebrew on hand during the brewing process to make it more interesting). I thought to myself: aeration would be good for the yeast and this would be a fine time to start, so I began stirring more vigorously creating a good bit of foam. Another temperature check a few minutes later and it was under 100. Rinse and repeat (sip, sip...).

After a total of 15 minutes of chilling, my 5 gallon batch was down to about 67 degrees (matching the yeast temp)! I am impressed! What once was a 40 minute cool down in a water bath alone, was now less than half that original time. Well done everybody, thanks for the help.

 

[Jim311]

I was able to cool mine almost to the temp of my tap water with nothing other than 72ish degree tap water through 25 feet of 3/8 copper in less than 15 minutes. I think pumps and ice just overcomplicate things. Sure, I wasted some water, but the whole brewing process is basically a waste of water and electricity isn't it? The water coming out of it initially was boiling hot!


Also, if you're brewing 3 gallons of wort and topping it off with say 2-3 gallons of fresh water, put the jugs or pot of you water in the fridge. Between pouring in that fresh water that you've previously chilled and your wort chiller you'll be able to bring that water temp down FAST.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I invited a few of my brewing friends over for a brew day once. I set up my garden hose CFC and showed them how I had to turn my water input way down or else I would make the wort too cold going through my CFC in a single pass. Soon after that, one of them bought a plate chiller and the other one made a garden hose CFC.