Never Mashing Out

[Steve3730]

Trying to level up my brewing and one thing I've always been sloppy with was never hitting 168+ to mashout with. Usually I heat up the water too late and end up mashing out and sparging with water 150-160 range. So I'm wondering what negative effects could that of been having on my beer?

 

[day_trippr]

If you're doing a proper batch sparge it doesn't matter - you don't need a mash out, and you can sparge with any reasonable temperature water, as you're going straight to the boil kettle where the wort will be denatured in short order.

Mash out is for control of final gravity and is really a fly sparge thing, as a proper 1 quart per hour sparge rate can take a lot of time to get the wort from mash tun to boil kettle (like almost an hour in my case) while the enzymes are still whittling away and making the wort more fermentable than perhaps desired...

Cheers!

 

[MikeMetroka]

I don’t think any. I think you would continue to get conversion throughout the sparging process for additional efficiency.

 

[FVillatoro]

I never mashed out once, and after some experience I was able to consistently predict the FG of the beer. As long as you keep the steps exactly the same, every batch and every time, the results will become easy to predict with careful notes.

With my new RIMS setup I will start implementing mashing out to see if it improves my beer, but it's not something I find necessary.

 

[Amadeo38]

I never mashed out for years and never had a problem. At some point I started having poor head retention. A friend (who fly sparges) came over while I was brewing one time and tried to convince me it was a potential source of poor head retention. Not sure if it’s true, but I’ve not had that problem since.

 

[Hopalong]

Usually, the mash water is removed and boiled which wipes out Alpha and it's used to raise mash temperature to wipe out Alpha still in the mash. The volume of mash water is never enough and boiling water needs to be added to the tun which helps thin the mash. Mash out at 162F. If starch is still present after a one hour rest, hopefully, Alpha will finish the job at 162F. Alpha releases more sweet, nonfermenting sugar than glucose at 162F. Weyermann recommends a rest at 162F for certain types of beer. The recipes are on their website.

I'm not sure how mash out ties in with head retention, but maybe.
Poor head retention starts with using high protein malt and rancid, crystal malt. Most high modified malt is high in protein except for a type of Marris Otter which is 8% protein. Weyermann floor malt is 8 to 10% protein. Homebrew malt is usually 12 to 16% protein. The lower in protein, the higher the sugar content. The higher the modification number (Kolbach) the less rich in enzyme content.

It might be a good idea to test for starch before mashing out because when a sample indicates starch is present, Alpha didn't liquefy amylose. When that happens the saccharification rest has to be extended. Sometimes, malt goes slack and Alpha is whipped and amylose won't liquefy. Over the years I had three bags of malt that were slack, it's never forgotten. When adjuncts are not recommended to be used with malt it's because Alpha has enough strength to deal with the grain that contains it but not enough power to deal with adjunct starch.

"I think you would continue to get conversion throughout the sparging process for additional efficiency."

Conversion occurs during a Beta rest, 140 to 145F. During conversion Beta converts glucose into maltose and maltotriose which are complex types of sugar. Saccharification and dextrinization may continue during sparge if Alpha didn't denature.

 

[grampamark]

What he said ^^^.

 

[divrack]

Usually, the mash water is removed and boiled which wipes out Alpha and it's used to raise mash temperature to wipe out Alpha still in the mash. The volume of mash water is never enough and boiling water needs to be added to the tun which helps thin the mash. Mash out at 162F. If starch is still present after a one hour rest, hopefully, Alpha will finish the job at 162F. Alpha releases more sweet, nonfermenting sugar than glucose at 162F. Weyermann recommends a rest at 162F for certain types of beer. The recipes are on their website.

I'm not sure how mash out ties in with head retention, but maybe.
Poor head retention starts with using high protein malt and rancid, crystal malt. Most high modified malt is high in protein except for a type of Marris Otter which is 8% protein. Weyermann floor malt is 8 to 10% protein. Homebrew malt is usually 12 to 16% protein. The lower in protein, the higher the sugar content. The higher the modification number (Kolbach) the less rich in enzyme content.

It might be a good idea to test for starch before mashing out because when a sample indicates starch is present, Alpha didn't liquefy amylose. When that happens the saccharification rest has to be extended. Sometimes, malt goes slack and Alpha is whipped and amylose won't liquefy. Over the years I had three bags of malt that were slack, it's never forgotten. When adjuncts are not recommended to be used with malt it's because Alpha has enough strength to deal with the grain that contains it but not enough power to deal with adjunct starch.

"I think you would continue to get conversion throughout the sparging process for additional efficiency."

Conversion occurs during a Beta rest, 140 to 145F. During conversion Beta converts glucose into maltose and maltotriose which are complex types of sugar. Saccharification and dextrinization may continue during sparge if Alpha didn't denature.

Interesting..
All of the malt I get seems to be rated 9-12 protein but my favourite, Simpsons golden promise is 8.1 - 9.7.. wonder if this low protein is why I like it.. kolbach is 40. I read here someone saying it didn't have good enzyme activity as it was originally for whisky, but that doesnt make much sense to me.