Need help with HERMS mash please

[Coffee_Creek]

I started all-grain brewing 6 years ago in Washington state using a gravity system with a 10 gallon cooler mash tun. I was making a very good Bavarian Hefeweizen full a lot of body. Everyone who tried it loved it. Every little change I made with with each batch I could tell the difference, such as slightly changing mash temps fermenting temps. After brewing about 15 five gallon batches and taking notes I dialed it in. I could make batch after batch and each one was great. Well, I wanted to take my brewing to the next level so, I built a one level propane brew stand with three burners, two pumps and three keggles, brew pot, HERMS mash tun and hot liquor tank with a 50 foot 1/2' stainless coil. While building this we moved to Kentucky before I could try it out. After moving I finished the brew rig and tried it out. I used the same recipe, ingredients and temps for mash and fermenting. The beer came out thin and dry. I brewed 4 or 5 batches all had the same results, dry and thin with other different off flavors. Before I could figure out what was wrong we moved to New Mexico. Since we've been here, 4 months, I've had time to try again. I've tried 4 five gallon batches, again, using my notes and same ingredients. Still no luck, all were thin and dry. I'm recirculating the mash through one pump and recirculating the hot water through another pump and maintaining the same temps that I did with the gravity system temps. I'm running the wort after boil through a plate chiller into a keg to ferment. My OG and final gravity are right on the numbers and it's still coming out thin and dry. Here's a pic of my rig. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bbohanon]

If you are hitting your gravity numbers, I would turn your attention to your water supply and water profile to see if something in the mash PH is off.

A low PH(below 5.3) will cause a thin-tasting beer and flavors will begin get muted. You want it to land in the 5.4-5.5 range for the Mash PH and I think things will turn around for you.

Just my .02 as I use a e-HERMS setup myself and if I hit my Mash PH and recirculate long enough to hit my gravity numbers, (Usually 60 mins mash recirc at 150 and a 60 min fly sparge at 168) my beer turns out exactly as I want it to.

 

[PlexVector]

If you are hitting your gravity numbers, I would turn your attention to your water supply and water profile to see if something in the mash PH is off.

A low PH(below 5.3) will cause a thin-tasting beer and flavors will begin get muted. You want it to land in the 5.4-5.5 range for the Mash PH and I think things will turn around for you.

Just my .02.

I agree.
I've not made this style, so more here to bump to see what the extreme experts have to say...nice rig.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I'm really not understanding the need for three burners with a HERMS rig. Do you use the MLT burner while the mash is taking place? Or is the third burner just to heat up the strike water?

Thin AND dry means that you're getting more attenuation than you're normally used to. The enzymes in the mash are leaving less unfermentable sugars behind and creating more fermentable sugars than before.

Causes of enzymes really performing well:
1) Mash pH being optimal
2) Mash temps being optimal

Another possibility is that the yeast is doing a better job than before, but I think the mash enzymes overdoing it would be the more likely culprit.

Is your FG dramatically lower than usual?

 

[Coffee_Creek]

The third burner was free so I placed it under the MLT to heat strike water and also have used it to speed up heating the mash to to sparge temps with the pump running.

 

[Coffee_Creek]

If you are hitting your gravity numbers, I would turn your attention to your water supply and water profile to see if something in the mash PH is off.

A low PH(below 5.3) will cause a thin-tasting beer and flavors will begin get muted. You want it to land in the 5.4-5.5 range for the Mash PH and I think things will turn around for you.

Just my .02 as I use a e-HERMS setup myself and if I hit my Mash PH and recirculate long enough to hit my gravity numbers, (Usually 60 mins mash recirc at 150 and a 60 min fly sparge at 168) my beer turns out exactly as I want it to.

What's the easiest way to raise the PH if it's low?