Need Advice on yeast banking

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Chupidacabra

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This week I started putting together my yeast bank. I got some 25ml autoclavable vials, a pipet and I already had a stirplate set up. I have 3 yeasts banked. I started by sanitizing with starsan. I than added 15% glycerin(from my lhbs) and pulled yeast slurry from my cooled starter. I capped them and put them in the fridge for 1 day. Then into a cooler lined with ice packs in my freezer. To make sure my process is correct I have now made a starter from one of the vials. The yeast on the bottoms is about half normal looking and half dark. I've never seen this in a starter before. Is my yeast contaminated? It smells slightly off and doesn't taste too crazy but does seem like it may be different than normal.

I have since learned a little bit more and purchased a pressure cooker,
However my pipet is too long for my cooker. Any advice on a better yeast transferring device? My pressure cooker is fairly large but the 5ml pipet I purchased is about 12 inches long and doesn't quite fit.

Can I blame the weirdness in my starter on the lacking sterilization? And should I dump my vials and start over?.



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I don't yeast ranch, but I know that "sanitary" isn't good enough. Sterile is needed.

The folks that do it seem to flame a loop, and use that to innoculate their slants.

I have no idea what's going on in your current starter, but it could be that some of the yeast froze (do you use agar?) and died.
 
You are ok with what you are doing. The darker yeast is probably dead yeast. You need to be sanitary, but not sterile. If you were slanting yeast, you would need it sterile.

I first pour the slurry into the test tube, cap and cool in the fridge. After a couple of days I pour off any liquid, then add the glycerin solution. Cap, shake, leave in fridge for a day, then to the freezer.
 
- What sort of step up are you doing?
- What gravity of wort are you using?
- What's your thawing procedure?

Since they aren't too old I would blame most of the odd behavior on stressed yeasties.
Yeast are forgiving so I'd first rule out 'under-pitching' your starter. From cold storage a 1:2 starter is about the maxI'd start out at, probably 1:1 for the first couple times.
Some nice easy 1.030 wort and then do the more familiar 1:10 starters after 2-3 days of growth. Maybe a 1:5 starter if I had issues with 1:10.
Equally important is waking them of up from the freezer. This should be a slow affair. I'm not sure on the exact timing but a day or two in the fridge and 12h at room temp is what I'd start at. YEAST, and some of the blogs out there will have good procedures to start at.
 
Equally important is waking them of up from the freezer. This should be a slow affair. I'm not sure on the exact timing but a day or two in the fridge and 12h at room temp is what I'd start at. YEAST, and some of the blogs out there will have good procedures to start at.

I'm no expert, but have done some reading on this. I believe it is best to cool slowly, and thaw quickly.
 
Like you I have not done it either, I was basing it off of some fuzzy recollections and treatment for hypothermia. Gentle temperature changes generally lead to the fewest side effects.
BBLBrewer does 24h thaw and 6-8h room temp acclimatizing.

Quick thaw protocol suggests submerging vials in lukewarm 98F/37C water though notes that it increases stress on the cells. Sanger and MIT also advocate the quick thaw method.
These are protocols developed for lab work with mammal and human cells so they must work well enough for medical trials.
 
Yeah I used glycerin. Going from the yeast banking thread.

I think I'm going to sterilize my current vials and try again with the pressure cooker. I suppose at the very least I'll know if my symptoms were from contamination.



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I slow cooled and quick thawed in cool water going with the conversation on results coming out of the yeast banking thread.

I started with a 200ml 1.040 starter and built that to 1000ml.


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I didn't think about cooling the yeast so it would solidify and then decanting. I may try that next round. Less water is probably better in the long run. Do you just sterilize the glycerin as a batch and split it into vials?


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Unless you had some wild yeast in there any contamination should be fairly evident. It's more than likely just stressed yeast.
You're currently using at best a 1:8 starter(25mL:200mL). How much slurry goes into your starters? Try one of the old ones at a 1:1 starter. To clarify that is 1 part slurry 1 part 1.030-40 starter.
At 1:8 you're probably pitching too low, especially for yeast coming out of deep freeze. I'm assuming you're not filling them to the brim so you're likely drastically underpitching.

You also might look into getting 100% glycerin as many people use higher concentrations.
 
Okay. Thanks for the advice. I will try a much smaller step starter and see what happens. I was thinking about the subject at work, from what I read most people use a pipet or turkey baster to transfer yeast. Wouldn't it be just as easy sterilizing a spoon and decanting all the liquid off of my cooled starter and then just scoop the liquid into the sterilized vials? Then I could sit it in the fridge for a day decant off the remaining liquid and add glycerin?


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From what I read on the other forum people were purposely keeping liquid in the vial and only using about 15-25% glycerin in their final solution. To me less water means less freezing so I think your idea sounds better as long as the yeast is still fully submerged. I will test both ways at smaller step starters and see what works best.


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I've seen many concentrations of glycerol suggested. Having 100% allows you to find the sweet spot for your equipment and methods. Yeast advocates 15% for deep freeze(-80C) storage and 50% for commercial/home freezers(-20C). There is a brief mention that warmer preservation benefits from more glycerol so the yeast do not freeze solid. This helps soften the effects of any defrost cycles that your ice bags in a cooler can't moderate.
In addition to varying glycerol concentrations Yeast also discusses using ascorbic acid in low(1g/L) concentrations to aid in preservation of cell membranes. The use of Yeast Extract-Peptone-Dextrose(YPD) solution/broth instead of sterile water is another difference from most home brewers methods and those discussed in Yeast.
If you have the book the topic of yeast ranching has it's own section in the back, "Your own yeast lab made easy", with the above topics on pages 199-207. If you don't have it put it on your Christmas list; it's an excellent read
 
Wow dude, you're yeast banking makes mine look like a joke. I've just got around 16 small jam jars in my fridge drawer with maybe 0.5cm yeast cakes on the bottom and what is basically 1.040 starter beer on top. This is all next to like random veggies and whatever else I can fit in there...

But yeah, I see those darker yeast layers all the time, even in some unused vials I've purchased. Its just the less-than-healthy yeast cells and I'm guessing those arent the ones that will propagate anyway.
 
I maintain a large yeast bank (>150 strains) and have written a number of articles on banking in my blog (link in my sig). Without a picture it is hard to say what is happening in your starter, but it doesn't sound like an infection - infections in starters have similar characteristics (aromas, appearance, etc) to infections in the fermenter. Stressed yeast, precipitation from wort, etc, may account for it. Do you have a microscope that you could use to take a look at the sample? That would show you pretty quickly if there's something odd in there.

Leithoa provided some links for cell freezing/thawing protocols; unfortunately, those were (all but the BYO article) for mammalian cells and are not applicable to freezing/thawing yeast. When freezing yeast you want to freeze using between 15% and ~40% glycerol in a low-density word (YPD media is best, 1.020 OG wort is the home-brewers best option). If using a home freezer, aim for 30-40%; if freezing colder 15-20% is the ideal range. Previous studies with yeast have observed viability losses using less than 10% and more than 40% glycerol. Pure glycerol is highly stressful to yeasts and should not be used. Whites recommendation of ascorbic acid is based on how yeasts were preserved in the 1950's & 60's; academic labs no longer bother with that as the benefit - if it even exists - is so small as to be unmeasurable (it is more meaningful for refrigerator temps, where yeast continue to metabolize and produce oxygen radicals). Far more important is a consistent freezer temperature (e.g. use a non-frost-free freezer or use a temperature buffer in frost-free) plus use as cold a temp as you can manage.

The dose of glycerol is important - and contrary to what people think, is not there to prevent freezing; glycerol stocks in a -80C freezer are rock hard. Glycerol does lower the freezing point - a 15-20% glycerol solution will only partially freeze in a home freezer, but its main function is to act as a kosmotrope - a fancy way of saying it ensures that salts distribute evenly between the frozen and liquid phases. If you don't do this, salts get ever more concentrated in the ever smaller liquid phase, eventually killing the yeast through creating a hyperosmotic environment. Through the same chemical mechanism glycerol also protects the yeasts surface proteins, but since it doesn't get into the cell, the cytosol may still freeze, again depending on temperature and yeast condition. Glycerol however is toxic to yeast at higher doses, so there is no additive benefit to exceeding recommended amounts.

A good way to improve yeast stablity during freezing is to allow it to ferment out the pre-freezing wort completely, and then place that "spent" culture in the fridge for 2-3 days. This will induce a series of changes in the yeast which help them enter and survive dormancy - including laying down glycogen stores (an energy source key to them surviving thawing) and the production of trehalose (a sugar which protects from the effects of freezing). Once this is done, decant the wort and replace with your freezing mixture (also at refrigerator temps) - you then want to move the tube to the freezer immediately to prevent the yeast from reactivating and undoing all of the pro-dormancy things you've induced in the yeast. Quick-freezxing is not required, and would be overkill for home use; simply placing the tube in your freezer is sufficient for home use.

In terms of thawing, the rate doesn't matter much. If you thaw slowly (i.e. place the tube on some ice and let it thaw that way) you'll have slightly better recovery than if you warm quickly, but the faster onset of growth with a quick thaw will make up that difference pretty quickly. In my case I transfer 10-50ul of frozen yeast (using a loop) into 6ml of 1.040 wort room-temp wort; 24-48 hours later the yeast have fermented out the small tube of wort and are ready to transfer to a 250-500ml starter.

Bryan
 
Tons of great advice there. I will try 25% glycerin in the next set. And do a tiny starter with one of the vials I have now and see how it works. Thanks everyone. I will post my results.


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Is it normal to get a lot of hot break in a dme starter? I realized this may be what the ' dark yeast' I was seeing before could have been. ImageUploadedByHome Brew1415771150.771765.jpg

This is some 1.04 starter I made tonight and canned for a step up starter I'm doing now.

I boiled 2000ml of 1.04 starter with about 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient. I poured off 1600 ml into jars and pressure canned that. The rest was cooled and received a vial of yeast on a stir plate. Both groups of liquid have this debris in the bottom.


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The advice worked great btw. I did a 3 step starter for some wyeast am ale and had a great fermentation on an IPA.


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