nanobrewery - yeast

[Merlinus]

Hello. I am planing in opening a nano brewery. We will produce Belgian styles beers. We are starting with a Blonde Ale and a Dubbel.

We planned to use a Wyeast, but it is very expensive to use for quantities of 450 liters a batch. Only the costs of the Wyeast needed for 450 liters would be 410 euros.

So my question is: Would be a solution to use dry yest ? Which would be the best ? I haven't tried them as i only used liquid yeast.

Choices:
-Safbrew t-58
- a mix between t-58 and s-33
- Safbrew Abbaye or a mix between it and t-58

Are there any other good dried yeasts (other companies that produce them) suitable for Belgian beers ?

Thanks in advance !

 

[ColoHox]

Dry yeast is a very good alternative. I know a lot of nano and micro brewers that use dry yeast exclusively.

There is a long thread somewhere on here about Abbaye yeast. I love it, so I would definitely recommend it. I like S-33 as well. You can probably force a wider variety of flavors out of S33.

Have you considered growing your own pitch able quantities of yeast instead of buying it? You can use your fermenter to grow your yeast then transfer over your fresh wort once you know your pitchrates.

 

[Weezy]

You can certainly try those dry yeasts (which are good, I can't say. I haven't used dry Belgian yeasts). A lot of small breweries use dry yeast for the simplicity of it. Blends can be problematic over generations (if you repitch) as the ratio of the yeasts will stray over successive batches.

I understand that White Labs has a lab in northern Europe somewhere (Amsterdam?) that is growing commercial size pitches for small breweries. Its definitely be worth getting in touch with them.

 

[boganll]

I don't own a brewery and I won't pretend like I know how to run one, but it seems like you'd save yourself a lot of money in the long run if you invest in setting up a lab and culture your own yeast as much as possible rather than buying a fresh batch for every brew

 

[Merlinus]

Thanks guys for the answers, i have read the thread about Abbaye yeast, i saw that some say it's good some say it's not.

I know this. I will make the blend of dried yeasts, with fresh yeast. Ex: 250gr of fresh t-58 and 250gr of fresh abbaye...

Yes i know, but I want to use only fresh yeast, as i don't want to bother culturing or saving the yeast. Would take a lot of work, and cleaning and patience, and there are plenty of things to do in a brewery, even at nano size, as i don't want to hire a lot of staff.

I calculated, and the costs of the dried yeast needed for a batch would be 40-60 euros (depending on the strain). Compared to 410 euros for the liquid one (without doing a starter).

If i want to do it. Let's say i buy 1 liter of pure wyeast liquid yeast, and grow it in my fermentation bucket, how long it will take ? Do i need a stir plate for that ?

I will try and contact White Lab also and see what they offer.

 

[boganll]

You may want to take this thread to the professional forums.

www.probrewer.com

The discussions there and the people you'd get input from will be much more valuable to you. Not to downplay the knowledge base in our community here at HBT, but we're hobbyists not professionals.

 

[Merlinus]

ok thank you ! i will try my luck there.

as an update i searched about White Labs, they opened a lab in Copenhagen, Denmark, and they are starting delivering yeast from there starting from this Summer.

 

[Merlinus]

I have read in many places that the dry yeasts are ok, for other styles, but for Belgian styles many say that the liquid yeasts are the best. Is that true ?

Also i have read that s-33 is not suitable for a Tripel Or Dubbel, but t-58 would be more suitable.

How is t-58 compare to the Abbaye ?
And did anyone try to blend t-58 with s-33 ?

I created an account on probrewer, i activated it, but i cannot start a thread.

Thanks !

 

[NTexBrewer]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=521992

Check out this thread

 

[skw]

Not sure if you can get it in Romania, but there's a Polish producer of a Belgian dry yeast: http://www.gozdawa.org/de/de-drozdze-bfsay
Mangrove Jack also produces a dry Belgian yeast that may be an option:
http://mangrovejacks.com/collections/craft-series-yeasts/products/belgian-ale-yeast-10g

I haven't tried either though, I'm not too fond of Belgian beers.

 

[Calichusetts]

Many of your posts are throwing out HUGE red flags right now. Belgian beers are all about the yeast. You need to try several types at several temps to ensure you have the right one for your brew. It is basically the base for the signature taste of your brewery. It will either attract customers or drive them away

Cost wise, you need to get into using starters and/or harvesting yeast. It will not be hard to harvest. You say its around 50 euro for dry, but compare that to free. Buy enough liquid to step up the cell count to twice what you need. Pitch half and either harvest the yeast or pitch subsequent batches onto the yeast cake. Do this a few times and toss it. Take out the other half of the starter and repeat for a few generations. You can get 5-15 batches this way, easily.

That will save you 250-700 euro. You can use that extra cash to get new equipment, pay bills, etc.

 

[Merlinus]

Yes i know, that was why i asking which yeast i should use. And that is why i wanted to use a liquid yeast.

So i spoke with the guys from White Labs, they established a lab in Copenhagen - Denmark. The cost for the yeast needed for my batch will be 172 euros + transport. So it should cost no more than 210 euros compared to Wyeast - 410 euros.

I know it would be free to harvesting the yeast, but i really don't want to venture into this. And i plan to do a blend of a few strains designed for us, to have a "unique" yeast. So harvesting it, won't be possible, as it will change every generation.

I will do home a test. Do the same beer, and split it in half, and one i will ferment it with a dried yeast, maybe a mix of t58 + s33 and the other with a liquid yeast, to see the differences.

I usually ferment my beers around 18-20°C in the first day and 20-24°C after, and in the last days , i rise a little the temp to help it finish.

Thnaks!

 

[beardown2489]

Good luck. Lots of work to be done.

I'd really suggest getting more experience using these yeast strains before going pro.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Why ask here? I don't mean to be rude, but wouldn't it make more sense to price out all options, and then use what you like the taste of, works in your system, will sell well in your area, and is affordable? Get a short list together, buy them all, and see how they work, even if only on a smaller scale.

 

[BrewSavage]

Sounds too expensive €410 for 450 liters. That €0.91 per liter, or $1.00 per liter.

Typical homebrewer makes 19L of beer and wyeast retails for $7 so thats only $0.36 per liter at retail prices. So retail yeast in the US is only 36% the price for wholesale in Romania?

 

[Merlinus]

Sounds too expensive €410 for 450 liters. That €0.91 per liter, or $1.00 per liter.

Typical homebrewer makes 19L of beer and wyeast retails for $7 so thats only $0.36 per liter at retail prices. So retail yeast in the US is only 36% the price for wholesale in Romania?

Seems so... i'm not buying it from here, but from their official importer in Belgium, anyway SUA - Belgium is a long way, and from Belgium to Romania also.