My Kal-ish Clone/ebrewsupply build

[EODtony]

Here is my panel that I've almost got complete. Just waiting on more 10 gauge to arrive to wire up the E-stop. I used Kal's guide and ebrewsupply's 30amp 2 PID kit. I spent 3.5 hours today just cleaning up wires and this is the best I could get, I don't know how Kal got his so organized.

 

[BigFloppy]

The wiring on your door looks great! Suggest trying to get some "Panduit wire duct" for the body of the box, it'll make it look so much tidier

 

[augiedoggy]

Is that 120v? Your wiring looks like 14 -16 awg?I wish mine was that organized inside.

 

[hunter306]

All the door wiring and most of the 120v bus are wired in 14ga. The only necessary 10awg is for the high-current element connections and the mains to the two (or three, depending on configuration) different terminal strips. It looks like EOD did the same thing I did when I built my panel, which was to run the indicator lights to the element plug using the 14awg. I can't see the wire close enough, but it looks like the contactor->twist lock connection is larger gauge.

Looks good, if you made this much progress in 3ish hours, you're making me look bad. I fought my wiring for a good couple of days!

Just finished my ebrewsupply/kal/custom panel and fought the wiring organization for too long:

 

[EODtony]

This a 220v system.

Yeah, it's all 14 gauge except for the main bus wires and the element wiring. It was a pain smashing 2 different size wires in some of terminals and getting to secure both wires.

All together this is 2 days of about 6 hours each day wiring everything. Then 3.5 hours today of me cleaning everything up, which included re-running some wires. That doesn't include time cutting out holes and such. The pre-built systems are worth every penny, but I love DIY!

 

[hunter306]

EDIT: Didn't realize you were in a 220v area! My mistake.

Looking closer at your panel, I noticed that you have the 15a single pole breaker wired behind the 25a 2pole breaker. (Again, the wiring is a bit hard to see, so forgive me if I'm mistaken)

I think you're going to want to break the 2 pole breaker and the single pole breaker out onto individual connections to the main power so that the 2 pole breaker can protect the larger wires, and the the smaller 15a single pole can protect the lower current stuff like the pumps independent of one another. As it stands, I suspect you may trip the 15a breaker when you turn on an element.

 

[EODtony]

Hunter good catch. That's an easy fix; I'll just run it straight from the main contractor into the 15A breaker. I didn't even think about it till you mentioned it, then I went back and looked at the schematics and it's supposed to be wired how you mentioned.

Also I forgot to post pics of the outside of the box, so here they are. I decided not to go with an alarm switch for the Mash PID since it's basically just a temp readout.

Just waiting on the main power cable and little more 10 gauge for the E-stop to arrive from the states to finish this thing up. I can't wait to plug it in!!

 

[augiedoggy]

This a 220v system.

Yeah, it's all 14 gauge except for the main bus wires and the element wiring. It was a pain smashing 2 different size wires in some of terminals and getting to secure both wires.

All together this is 2 days of about 6 hours each day wiring everything. Then 3.5 hours today of me cleaning everything up, which included re-running some wires. That doesn't include time cutting out holes and such. The pre-built systems are worth every penny, but I love DIY!

I was commenting on the wiring going to the element outlets.... It didn't look like 10 gauge to me and if your using 5500w elements that's what you want.... I may be wrong but it just didn't look like it from the pics. After looking closer though It looks like you used solid core 10 gauge and I was mistaken so...

 

[EODtony]

It's 10 gauge stranded wire, but I have 2 wires going into the element plugs. You might be looking at the 14 gauge that is going to the lights on the panel that let me know when the element is actually firing.

I can't wait for main power wire to come in so I can test everything out.

 

[hunter306]

Looking good, clean and simple layout. Let us know how the maiden power-up turns out!

 

[kzimmer0817]

Looks great. What are the dimensions of your enclosure?
Thanks,
Keith

 

[EODtony]

16" x 16" x 8"
I used the same one as Kal.

 

[Itsott]

Which pids did you use and how did you wire in the third? I've checked their diagrams with their kits and it only shows wiring for two. Did you use klaus wiring with their kit?

 

[EODtony]

I used the Auber SYL-2352. I wired it in very similar to Kal's; except I didn't wire in the alarm. I figure since it's just a monitoring PID I don't really need the alarm function.

 

[augiedoggy]

I used the Auber SYL-2352. I wired it in very similar to Kal's; except I didn't wire in the alarm. I figure since it's just a monitoring PID I don't really need the alarm function.

it has come in handy for me though... I almost didn't bother myself.

 

[jCOSbrew]

Just waiting on the main power cable and little more 10 gauge for the E-stop to arrive from the states to finish this thing up. I can't wait to plug it in!!

E-stop usually disables the coil on your contactors. Should be in series with your power switch and should be low current control signal.

 

[hunter306]

E-stop usually disables the coil on your contactors. Should be in series with your power switch and should be low current control signal.

I agree with jCOS. One thing I didn't care for on the ebrewsupply schematic was the entire 120v leg with pumps, pids, and lights running through the 3amp E-Stop Mushroom. Running Pumps under load will easily exceed that current draw, and while the pids don't draw much at all, it just didn't make a lot of sense.

I re-engineered the circuit a bit so that the NC Side of the E-Stop is inline with the Keyed on-off switch on the panel. This means that if your e-stop switch is activated, the contactor immediately opens cutting power to the panel at the input. Much smarter design in my opinion, the ebrewsupply schematic doesn't actually fully cut power to the 220v side. My thoughts, you can see the inside of my panel here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/hunters-basement-e-brewery-build-447201/index8.html#post5783027

 

[EODtony]

Thanks...I'll make the change! Just waiting on this main power cable so I've had lots time of time to look at the wiring and adjust small things. I will post pics after I get it all powered up and do my first brew on it.

 

[EODtony]

Well got the brewery all fired up today, ran into a mess of problems. Prolly shouldn't have brewed a beer the first time I turned it on. Between cleaning, calibrating, and brewing it was a 12 hour day. I realized I wired a couple of lights to opposite elements. Also gotta figure out what I did wrong with the amp meter.

Anyways here a few pics from the day. Still working on construction of the brew bench.

 

[Gatewayracer]

I agree with jCOS. One thing I didn't care for on the ebrewsupply schematic was the entire 120v leg with pumps, pids, and lights running through the 3amp E-Stop Mushroom. Running Pumps under load will easily exceed that current draw, and while the pids don't draw much at all, it just didn't make a lot of sense

Wrong...

First - the E-Stop is a 10 amp rated 2-pole NC switch (sends power to the 120v system when not triggered) that you can add an additional 10 amp 2-pole NO switch so that when the NC switch is triggered open you can direct power to the kill circuit (maybe a buzzer or big red light).

Second - Pid's, 120v pumps and LED lights do not draw close to 3 amps combined!

It would be helpful to others if you ask instead of making false comments that confuse people!

 

[hunter306]

@gatewayracer

Thanks for the thoughts. Unfortunately, you are incorrect regarding the switch that was provided by ebrewsupply in the lot. It is clearly marked as 3a - 240v, both the NC and the NO.

I suggested an alternative which I found to be a better solution in this case. It is up to the builder however to check their individual equipment in this case as I am sure other hardware is available with more current handling capability.

As to the current draw on the 120v side, I'm referring to the manufacturers specs on the equipment, I have not personally tested it under load. Better to err on the safe side and plan for a safety factor that exceeds the requirement, in my own experience.


@eod

Build looks great, sorry to hear you ran into some problems! Let us know what you find when you correct the problem.

 

[augiedoggy]

To really be clear to others... the emergency stop buttons are available in different sizes... 3a 10a and even larger...even though the one in the kit mentioned is 3a.
The best way to use these I would think is with a contactor relay and have the switch control that? Or am I missing something?

 

[Gatewayracer]

The switch is rated 10amps lth or continuous max amps. The Mushroom gets wired into the 120v circuit and is already overkill for it's intended use in the wiring diagram. You are looking at the 240V switch load rating.

 

[hunter306]

@gateway

Good clear picture, I did not notice the ITH rating stamped on the switch, so I went out and did some additional research. It appears that is correct.

With that being said, it still baffles me as to why you would only stop one half of your panel with the switch. Why kill the 120v leg alone, when you can wire it to completely kill power to the panel at the input contactor? Realistically, I don't really think the estop adds integral functionality anyway, so it's likely not a major concern. If it's wired and working for you safely, that's all that counts.

Cheers.

 

[Gatewayracer]

Blow a hose, boil over or any other emergency just one time and you will appreciate the quickness of the kill switch! By quick push of the button, you shut down the 120v system which renders the entire panel (including elements) inoperable (as long as you wire it per the ebrewsupply diagram).

Just say'n, you might want to ask prior to "re-engineering" anything!

 

[EODtony]

I will say I wired as Hunter recommended and it cut the power perfectly. It tested it with water, and it went from a rolling boil with both pumps running to nothing. It basically cuts everything off after the 220v contactor. Seemed pretty effective and harmless; also didn't cause any problems with re-powering on the system.

Either way...thanks for all the advice. I'll let you know what my fix is for the amp meter. I'm sure it's something simple.