My first (visible) infection. How should I proceed?

[nikkuchan]

I brewed a witbier about 3 weeks ago. 2 weeks in I lugged my fermenter to the kitchen to check it out and bottle it if it was good. Everything seemed okay, but it was ever so slightly carbonated and foamy, so I decided to put it back and let it sit. About a week later I check the fermenter and there a bit of white film at the top, which from all my views of infections tells me that I have a problem (pic below). I don't think it was the muslin bags because I boiled them with wort (they're filled with coriander and orange peels; I wanted to keep them in the fermenter, but I didn't want them loose). I suspect it might have been that I opened the bucket when I checked it out at 2 weeks.

I'm very afraid to bottling because I don't want bombs (my job requires me to be gone days at a time, and I definitely don't want my wife to deal with it alone), so I decided to dump it. However, I decided to have a taste before I did, and it was good. Flavor was fine, not perfect (my temp control wasn't too good on this), but nothing off, so now instead of dumping I'm writing this. Could that crap just be on the surface? Am I safe to bottle? What's the best course of action?

 

[ColoHox]

I agree that it looks contaminated. Not all infections cause off-flavors or it may be that the flavors have not come through yet, but most will continue to chew through remaining sugars in your beer.

Based on the appearance, I would say that bottling is risky.

 

[nikkuchan]

I agree that it looks contaminated. Not all infections cause off-flavors or it may be that the flavors have not come through yet, but most will continue to chew through remaining sugars in your beer.

Based on the appearance, I would say that bottling is risky.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I dump it, then. Too bad...

 

[slym2none]

Why dump it? If it tastes good, let it ride. Give it a while for whatever that is to chew through all the sugars, then taste it again. If it still tastes good, then you bottle & drink it!

Just be prepared to wait a while... some of these sours people have been making sit for months, some over a year, before they are finished.

 

[nikkuchan]

Why dump it? If it tastes good, let it ride. Give it a while for whatever that is to chew through all the sugars, then taste it again. If it still tastes good, then you bottle & drink it!

Just be prepared to wait a while... some of these sours people have been making sit for months, some over a year, before they are finished.

That would be a great opportunity to experiment... If I had the space. I'm very limited, and I can't really afford keep a bucket sitting around for months. Doing this would effectively make me unable to brew anything else for quite awhile.

 

[slym2none]

Ah... I see, Understandable, then.

 

[unionrdr]

If you'd have removed the bags, it likely would've been ok. Zest & such added 10-15 minutes from the end of the boil is usually fine. No need to risk infections leaving them in there.

 

[nikkuchan]

If you'd have removed the bags, it likely would've been ok. Zest & such added 10-15 minutes from the end of the boil is usually fine. No need to risk infections leaving them in there.

Yeah, I shouldn't have left them in. I thought it would be okay since I boiled them, but they've been floating there exposed the whole time, which, along with me opening the bucket, made plenty of opportunities for something to grow. I'll keep that in mind for next time.

 

[xpops]

Out of curiosity - if it is infected and something is chewing away at the residual sugars, is it guaranteed to continue to lower the FG and create CO2? is it possible for some type of infections to chew away those sugars and thin the beer out, but not affect the FG and create additional CO2, thus creating bottle bomb potentials?

 

[Bellybuster]

Dump it ???? Are you kidding???
it tastes good right?? check gravity 2 days in a row, if it's not falling, bottle it. May just be the best beer you ever made.

incredibly surprised to see such OKness with dumping a batch. You gotta work hard to actually ruin beer, seldom does it happen by itself.

 

[unionrdr]

Out of curiosity - if it is infected and something is chewing away at the residual sugars, is it guaranteed to continue to lower the FG and create CO2? is it possible for some type of infections to chew away those sugars and thin the beer out, but not affect the FG and create additional CO2, thus creating bottle bomb potentials?

they could ferment the priming sugar & some long chain sugars in the wort/beer in the bottles. If the beer was highly carbonated, the extra fermentation could cause bottle bombs. But with, say, 2.3 Vco2, it might not.

 

[JosephN]

I'm pretty sure that setting it out a room temp wouldn't hurt, so if you could afford 1 more bucket, lid and airlock then you could rock on with brewing. Just an idea. Dump it if you have to just make sure you really clean your equipment before using it again.

 

[JosephN]

From my experience if you have good wind control, meaning turn off all fans and central air, and you don't leave the top off your bucket for a long time then your chance of an infection are lessoned. It's hard for me to believe that just opening the bucket lid to check it caused an infection. It had to have come from the bag with its seeds and zest. The only time I have had an infection is when I didn't bake my cocoa nibs long enough and at high enough of a temp. When I added zest and seeds I dropped them in the last 5 mins and took them out shortly after.

 

[beergolf]

I don't think it was from the bag. The OP stated that he put the bag in during the boil. If it was boiled or a few minutes that would not cause the infection.

 

[unionrdr]

I often wondered about that, what with the bag(s) floating as I've been doing. Boiled, sanitized...but floating. I wonder if any nasties in the head space when the lid is first installed, might settle on top of the floating bag & multiply? Your thoughts?

 

[Kblandfo]

Can you bottle some in plastic when it gets hard move the batch to the fridge?

 

[beergolf]

Boiled, sanitized...but floating. I wonder if any nasties in the head space when the lid is first installed, might settle on top of the floating bag & multiply? Your thoughts?

It really does not matter. The bag is sanitized by the boil. The nasties do not come from the bag. If there were nasties in the head space and you did not have the bag, they would just settle into the beer and infect it. Either the nasties are there or they are not, the bag has nothing to do with it.

 

[unionrdr]

Just spitballing. I was trying to figure out why the infection sets in when dry hopping, even though bags are boiled & then soaked in sanitizer, fresh or stored. With the Hellfire IIPA, for example, I'm going to use a 2 gallon nylon bag with a sanitized shot glass in it to keep the hops & peppers below the surface. I want to see if that makes a difference...exposed to head space then not exposed...

 

[Rootski]

I'm surprised I'm the first one saying this. That doesn't look like an infection to me. Maybe some oils from the orange zest and spices got disturbed when you moved it the first time and now are congealing on the surface? I'm not sure.

 

[beergolf]

I'm going to use a 2 gallon nylon bag with a sanitized shot glass in it to keep the hops & peppers below the surface. I want to see if that makes a difference...exposed to head space then not exposed...

That is a good way to keep things below the surface. It is not really going to confirm anything. because if there is no infection, it just means that there were not any bugs present to start the infection. So unless you purposely introduce bugs, then you will not know if the bag below the surface had any effect. Infections do not happen very often, so if you do not get one, it is not because you sunk the bag.

I have made a lot of brews using boiled hop bags that just sat in the fementer and have never had an infection.

 

[unionrdr]

Me too. Then they started happening with dry hopping? I clean everything inside & out, sanitize, etc. But only dry hopping seems to do it? Boiled & sanitized bags too?

 

[beergolf]

Me too. Then they started happening with dry hopping? I clean everything inside & out, sanitize, etc. But only dry hopping seems to do it? Boiled & sanitized bags too?

That is strange. If the bags are sanitized by boiling it is not from the bags. Maybe you have a small scratch in one of your fermenters that is so small that the infection only shows up after an extended amount of time and after you open up the fermenter to dry hop. A pellicle forms to keep oxygen out. So the brew could be infected but not show visible signs of the infection. Then when the fermenter is opened up to dry hop that exposes the brew to some more oxygen, and a pellicle starts to form. I could see where it could lead you to believe that it is from dry hopping, but I am willing to bet the infection was there before the hop bags were added.

I have sours and Brett beers that never form a pellicle if I close them up good and tight and never open them up so they don't get exposed to oxygen. They are definitely infected (in a good way) because I know what I put in them, but just do not exhibit visual signs because oxygen is not present.

 

[unionrdr]

Hm, well, I don't need to open it to take gravity samples, just take out the airlock centerpiece & open the spigot. then close everything up again. Or dropping the dry hop bag in. Same thing. As quick as possible. Wanna get to the bottom of this, as there aren't any small scratches that can be seen. Even barely? Gotta go take my son for senior pics by 6:30. Gotta rig rear bumper cover again first. Darn cheap bracketry...

 

[beergolf]

Ok. I have been thinking about this. The way to figure this out is to do everything the same. Take your samples as normal, but do not dry hop. Just open the fermenter like you are going to dry hop, but do not drop anything in the fermenter. Just leave it open for the same amount of time. That way you are not changing any variables except dropping in the dry hops. If it is infected and opening up the fermenter introduces more oxygen, then a pellicle will begin to form. That will confirm that the infection was there before the introduction of some oxygen. If a pellicle does not form then it is from the dry hopping method.

I am lucky and have not had any non- intentional infections. Even with brewing a. lot of sours and brett beers.But definitely know what they look like.

 

[unionrdr]

Sounds like a decent way to find out what it is? Maybe need to remove the lid seal & clean all that more thoroughly?