My DIY wort chiller instructions - what is it called?

[its_manbearpig]

I'm looking forward to getting into mini-mash and all grain brewing techniques and one of my favorite parts is building new tools. Here's a link to my wort chiller on another DIY community I frequent. I've tested it and it works well.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-wort-chiller-for-homebrewing/

I've never really seen a cooler-type wort chiller like the one I made. What would be the technical term for one like this? It's not exactly a counter flow like this:

and it really isn't an immersion chiller, either unless it was an immersion chiller in reverse where hot wort is passed through cold water instead of cold water being passed through hot wort.

What do you think?

 

[Talloak]

It's a reverse immersion chiller. Do you have to pump the hot wort through the copper, or do you use gravity. How fast is the wort moving through the copper. What kind of chill times are you getting with it. Is passing the hot wort through the cooler just once enough, or do you have to recirculate.

This could be the next big thing. You should go into business. But seriously, I am curious. Never seen anything quite like it.

 

[shortyjacobs]

It's a Jockey Box wort chiller.

Bonus, you can use it to chill a keg "on demand".

Nice writeup. I'm surprised you only hit 55F inside the cooler though. You should have had that ice water a lot closer to 32F? I'm guessing it's due to the heat transfer through those plastic bottles you are storing ice in. I bet you could get the temp into the mid-upper 20s using salted water and ice cubes :-D.

 

[lamarguy]

What do you think?

Honestly, it looks to be very inefficient.

I assume those bottles will be full of ice. Your heat exchange rate will be less than stellar unless you add water and constantly stir. Even then, I doubt the ice bottles will have the thermal exchange capacity to bring down the temperature of ~6 gallons of 212F wort to ~70F.

If you like the idea of a counterflow chiller, you could easily adapt your design to work more efficiently by wrapping the tube with a hose. Or, you use it as an immersion chiller.

 

[Talloak]

Are those bottles from that gross 'juice' my grandmother tried to give me as a kid? You know, the colored sugar water.

 

[arturo7]

I'm considering something similar. I'd be interested to see what results you would get if you filled up the cooler with salted ice water.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Actually, I take back what I said.

It would take pounds of salt to lower the freezing point enough to make a decent difference. Not cost effective. A better bet would be some more tubing, and ditch the ice bottles, (just use plain ice). Of course, the 10 lbs of ice is gonna add $3 to each batch....

More tubing would certainly help. Jockey Boxes typically have 25-50 ft, and those are only trying to cool beer from 75 to 40 degF.

And only open the ball valve halfway.

And stick a "Cheap and Easy Aeration Gadget" on the outflow.

 

[GOOCHY]

Sounds like a lot more work than just using an immersion chiller.

 

[its_manbearpig]

It's a reverse immersion chiller. Do you have to pump the hot wort through the copper, or do you use gravity. How fast is the wort moving through the copper. What kind of chill times are you getting with it. Is passing the hot wort through the cooler just once enough, or do you have to recirculate.

This could be the next big thing. You should go into business. But seriously, I am curious. Never seen anything quite like it.

Gravity - no pumping. The ball valve and all the piping is 3/8" and the valve allows for the wort to slow down if it is too hot. I was able to cool about 200 degree water down to 84 degrees, but if I used more ice and less water, I'd bet I could get the final temp lower. I just passed the wort through once.

 

[its_manbearpig]

It's a Jockey Box wort chiller.

Bonus, you can use it to chill a keg "on demand".

Nice writeup. I'm surprised you only hit 55F inside the cooler though. You should have had that ice water a lot closer to 32F? I'm guessing it's due to the heat transfer through those plastic bottles you are storing ice in. I bet you could get the temp into the mid-upper 20s using salted water and ice cubes :-D.

I agree that I could drop the temp a little more. The test numbers just came from the first test and that icewater could have been packed with more ice.

 

[its_manbearpig]

Are those bottles from that gross 'juice' my grandmother tried to give me as a kid? You know, the colored sugar water.

No, it was milk.

 

[arturo7]

It would take pounds of salt to lower the freezing point enough to make a decent difference.

Just curious, what is your reference for this?

 

[its_manbearpig]

Just curious, what is your reference for this?

That's how you make ice cream.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Just curious, what is your reference for this?

Years of chemistry and chemical engineering classes, and many "emergency cooling" operations of beer cans.

Seriously though, it can be calculated from the formulae here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freezing-point_depression

For salt in water, use the formula deltaT=K(f) * m(b), where K(f) is 1.86, and m(b) is 2m. m is the molar concentration of salt.

Solving for deltaT/m gives deltaT/m = 1.86*2, or 3.72.

So, 3.72 * (moles of salt/liter) = deltaT. For a deltaT of 1 degree Fahrenheit, (or 0.5555 degrees Celsius). You need a 0.5555/3.72=0.15 Molar concentration of salt.

If that cooler is 10 gallons, or 37.8 liters, then you need 0.15*37.8 = 5.65 moles of salt.

5.65 moles of salt is ~328 grams, or 0.72 pounds of salt.

So to drop the freezing point of 10 gallons of water by 1 degree F, you need 0.72 pounds of salt. I'm guessing you'd want to increase your deltaT by a bit more than 1 degree. For 10 degrees, you need 7.2 pounds of salt.

 

[arturo7]

So to drop the freezing point of 10 gallons of water by 1 degree F, you need 0.72 pounds of salt. I'm guessing you'd want to increase your deltaT by a bit more than 1 degree. For 10 degrees, you need 7.2 pounds of salt.

Thanks.

That's a lotta damn salt.

 

[hexmonkey]

I agree that I could drop the temp a little more. The test numbers just came from the first test and that icewater could have been packed with more ice.

You'd also get better temp drop by keeping the water moving around inside. As the water around the coils heats up it will move around a bit by itself, but you'll still have a concentration of warmer water nearest the coils.

Anything to keep the water moving will work, for example just dropping a water fountain pump in there with nothing connected to the output. Best would be to setup a directional flow from the exit side to the input side, like a counterflow chiller would.

 

[Dwain]

Hell, try it and see. If it works, great. If not, and you stay with this hobby, you'll waste a lot more money on stuff that doesn't work. I had something similar to this: 10 gal. Gott water cooler, gravity fed. Tried it with tap water, ice water, salt and ice water. I have a freezer for brew stuff (a failed attempt at a lager chamber. see bold sentence) and so used many, many gallon jugs and 1/2 liter water bottles of ice at a time. I could not get the temps down low enough to pitch without a lot of recycle. I finally abandoned the idea and have since moved to a hybrid version of no chill. Also, if you use salt water, make sure you clean it up right away. If not, that copper will react with the salt and get funky quick. Luck - Dwain

 

[its_manbearpig]

Hell, try it and see. If it works, great. If not, and you stay with this hobby, you'll waste a lot more money on stuff that doesn't work. I had something similar to this: 10 gal. Gott water cooler, gravity fed. Tried it with tap water, ice water, salt and ice water. I have a freezer for brew stuff (a failed attempt at a lager chamber. see bold sentence) and so used many, many gallon jugs and 1/2 liter water bottles of ice at a time. I could not get the temps down low enough to pitch without a lot of recycle. I finally abandoned the idea and have since moved to a hybrid version of no chill. Also, if you use salt water, make sure you clean it up right away. If not, that copper will react with the salt and get funky quick. Luck - Dwain

Thanks Dwain. I am going to use more ice and chill the water in the fridge instead of getting it from the tap.