My brew stand: the idea

[federicovth]

Here is my project of my herms configuration.

There is a little difference with all herms setup i've found online and in the forum, that i think it will be a good idea with benefits in the brewing process.

Premise: i want to.realize an eHerms brewery setup..

I've make a change in kettles setup, according to a teacher of my "brewing school" that i had asked for an help for my eherms setup.
Basically, if normal herms setup had HLT, MASH and BOIL kettle, in mine I've choose to use separate kettle for MASH and FILTERING/SPARGE...
Why? Well, first due to my kettles configuration, because i was trying to don't make too much holes in the kettles, and second because the teacher that i sayd before, tells me: "in professionals setups, MASH and FILTERING/SPARGE aren't in the same pot.. if no one do this, there should be a reason...".
That's why I changed the configuration of normal Herms setup (HLT, MASH, BOIL) in HLT, MASH&BOIL, FILTER/SPARGE&WHIRLPOOL... on this way, after the mash i move all in the third pot for filtering; at the end, i move back in mash pot for the boil, and then in third pot again for the whirlpool.

Here is an hand drawing of the setup.. what do you think about??



P1 and P2 are PUMPS
A, B, C, are kettle's valves
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 are 3way valves (solar valves?? Maybe...)
Green arrows are WATER path/movement
Orange arrows are BEER path/movement

 

[madscientist451]

I've choose to use separate kettle for MASH and FILTERING/SPARGE...
Why? Well, first due to my kettles configuration, because i was trying to don't make too much holes in the kettles, and second because the teacher that i sayd before, tells me: "in professionals setups, MASH and FILTERING/SPARGE aren't in the same pot.. if no one do this, there should be a reason...".

In commercial settings, where batches are brewed continuously, if the mash tun is emptied, another mash can get be started. That way they can get more brews done in a day. Most homebrewers just do one batch at a time, so a separate vessel is not required.

 

[federicovth]

In commercial settings, where batches are brewed continuously, if the mash tun is emptied, another mash can get be started. That way they can get more brews done in a day. Most homebrewers just do one batch at a time, so a separate vessel is not required.

Ok, is not required but it is not a wrong idea separate them... right? Or do you think that there are some issues for which is better a normal setup??
In my case, due to the fact that heat element will be an electric heating element, i could had some trouble in making whirlpool in boil kettle, and onestly also for the filtering, because i have SsBrewteck kettles with a mattmill false bottom, that should stay over the kettle ball valve. If i had to filter in the same kettle of the mash, i will had too much empty space under the false bottom, and the mash wouldn't work properly... using a kettle only for filtering, this empty space is not a problem, and also i solve the whirlpool issues...

 

[federicovth]

Do you think that 1/2" pipes is enough for an homebrew system built in herms style, or 3/4 will be better??

the goal is to have less bottlenecks as possible, but also to avoid clogging of tubes with mash and grains ...
Because in my setup i need to move mash and grains from MTH to Filter Thun.. and also during herms recirculation, i could recirculate grains with mash.... Any idea to avoid problems during a brewing session??

 

[day_trippr]

There are a lot of home brew rigs running on 1/2" SS tubing, others using 1" piping, both successfully.
But moving the actual mash? I wouldn't try through even a 1" tube.
For that particular run you should consider much bigger piping, like 2", with a pump sized for the task (I doubt a Chugger or March is going to be happy moving a metric crap ton of mashed grains).
The rest of the plumbing you can follow convention and feel confident...

Cheers!

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Your main issue will be pump design.

The typical home brewer Chugger pump's output is restricted by a very small orifice (3/8" I think) i'm not sure about the March or others. You can run 2" pipe of you want, but that small hole at the pump becomes the effective choke point (limiting flow rate) no matter what size lines on the remainder of the system. One missed marble sized dough ball can stop flow.

Fittings that choke the diameter anywhere in the system will also be risky for particulate matter and knock down pressure and flow capability. Just because a fitting is "3/4 inch NPT" or made for "5/8 inch tubing", some of them have a damn small hole for flow. Look for "full flow" fittings and compare the inside hole with the rest of your systems lines and fittings.

The next thing to consider is head space. Gravity and mass is a *****. Whatever the diameter of the piping, the pump can only push so much stuff, in an upward direction (thus effecting pressure and flow rate). Do some calculations and talk with pump manufacturers to see what they recommend.

Lastly, chunks of grain are going to be interesting. I'm sure there are food grade, high temperature, crap chomping pumps out there, but probably not at your local brew shop or online brewing source.

Cleaning is an interesting concept also. Possibly consider a couple extra valves to allow for "back flushing" the line segments. This will generally provide for more thorough cleaning and particle removal, over the basic "run PBW through the thing and hope for the best"


Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[federicovth]

Your main issue will be pump design.

The typical home brewer Chugger pump's output is restricted by a very small orifice (3/8" I think) i'm not sure about the March or others. You can run 2" pipe of you want, but that small hole at the pump becomes the effective choke point (limiting flow rate) no matter what size lines on the remainder of the system. One missed marble sized dough ball can stop flow.

Fittings that choke the diameter anywhere in the system will also be risky for particulate matter and knock down pressure and flow capability. Just because a fitting is "3/4 inch NPT" or made for "5/8 inch tubing", some of them have a damn small hole for flow. Look for "full flow" fittings and compare the inside hole with the rest of your systems lines and fittings.

The next thing to consider is head space. Gravity and mass is a *****. Whatever the diameter of the piping, the pump can only push so much stuff, in an upward direction (thus effecting pressure and flow rate). Do some calculations and talk with pump manufacturers to see what they recommend.

Lastly, chunks of grain are going to be interesting. I'm sure there are food grade, high temperature, crap chomping pumps out there, but probably not at your local brew shop or online brewing source.

Cleaning is an interesting concept also. Possibly consider a couple extra valves to allow for "back flushing" the line segments. This will generally provide for more thorough cleaning and particle removal, over the basic "run PBW through the thing and hope for the best"

Keep us posted on your progress!

Well i start answer from the bottom

For the extra valves, i have think on and already considered some of them... I'm upgrading my setup drawing with those valves...

About pumps, i have TOPSFLO pumps, that are food grade ss and high temp.. i read on some blogs that they can move grains, but onestly they have in and out orifice are 1/2" that it could be a risk, probably a bigger risk if i'm coming with bigger pipes...

I have doubt on the recirculation because as i want to separate mash and filter, obviously during recirculation i will recirculate also grains.. or i can put a false bottom in mth too, but my doubt is that if i'm brewing alcoholic and high fg beers, the volume of grains will be big with high risk of blockage.. how people running herms systems manage this??

 

[Ruint]

Anybody that I know that uses a herms or rims system is only moving the liquid portion of the mash, with out the grains in it. Most use 1/2" tubing, whether it is hard piped, flexible, or a combination of both. In my opinion, you'd be better off running the heating coil in your mash tun to keep temperature than you would be trying to push the whole mash thru a constricted space, down through a large spiral (even if it is becoming more fluid like due to the heating of the hlt temp), and then up to be placed back in the mash tun. That is just a whole bunch of problem waiting to happen. If your heart is set on doing it that way, then more power to you, but it could be simpler....just saying....

 

[federicovth]

I was thinking on it, and using a false bottom also in Mth kettle probably will help me to recirculate only liquid without grains. To prevent the risk of blocks due to high quantity of grains (if I'm brewing beers that needs a lot of malt), i can manually mix the mash that probably it will also works better for sugar extraction..
But now the problem is when i need to move all from mth kettle to filter kettle...