My beer has no alcohol... why?

[murolo013]

I have been a homebrewer for about ten years. I have successfully created many different types of beer at home using both kits and self-made recipes. I had something strange happen with my latest batch.

I used a nut brown ale kit. It was all grain, and I decided to use fresh maple sap (It was March in New England) instead of water. After learning how best to do it, I made the batch and placed it into my fermenter. Within about eight hours, it started bubbling great. The fermentation kept up for about 4 days, pretty typical for this kind of beer. I let it continue to ferment for a total of two weeks. When bottling day came, I tested the ABV, and it came out to about 2%. I figured that I must have done something wrong with my original gravity calculation (I've used this hydrometer many times before without issues) and went ahead with bottling.

A couple of weeks later, I had my first taste. The beer tastes great! A great nut brown flavor with a hint of sweetness from the sap. The problem? There is no alcohol in it. It tastes as though I created a beer-flavored water. What could have caused this? Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance, community.

-Joe-

 

[JJack887]

Lack of water minerals in the sap may have inhibited fermentation? Not sure.

 

[treacheroustexan]

What was your OG/FG? If it fermented at all, there is alcohol in it. Lol.

 

[chickypad]

Yeah I'm not too sure on your process here. Besides OG and FG, what do you mean by you used maple sap instead of water?

 

[MT2sum]

Yeah I'm not too sure on your process here. Besides OG and FG, what do you mean by you used maple sap instead of water?

I saw a write-up on that somewhere, I think it was on HBT, but not sure - If you live where they can get the fresh sap, it's supposed to work great.

 

[GHBWNY]

When bottling day came, I tested the ABV, and it came out to about 2%. A couple of weeks later,... There is no alcohol in it. What could have caused this?

I don't understand how alcohol could have been present at bottling, but "disappeared" in the bottle? Did you do another FG reading after bottle-conditioning? Or is it a matter of *tasting* like there is no/little alcohol? Again, it's unlikely if not impossible for measurable alcohol to have been there, then NOT have been there. Thinking a measurement or equipment issue.

 

[chickypad]

Okay I see, so the sap is like dilute sugar water that you actually use to mash and sparge? I guess you have to add minerals like you would with RO. Waiting on the OG/FG numbers so we can figure out what the OP is talking about.

 

[Setsumi]

You say on bottling day you tested avb and it came out at about 2%. Did you take a gravity reading and compute the avb? It does not work like that.... You have to subtract the final gravity from the original gravity, then compute the avb....?

Mind you after reading your post it seems you know og and fg relation to abv....

 

[beergolf]

Are you using the potential alcohol scale on the hydrometer? That is of no use. Assuming you are that gives a gravity of about 1.014.

You need the OG to compute ABV, Take the OG ( or the estimated OG from kit) and then using this formula you can compute ABV.

(OG- FG) X 131= ABV.

For example if you og was 1.050. your abv would be 1.050 - 1.014 = .036

.036 X 131 = 4.7 %

 

[Revvy]

Are you using the potential alcohol scale on the hydrometer? That is of no use. Assuming you are that gives a gravity of about 1.014.

You need the OG to compute ABV, Take the OG ( or the estimated OG from kit) and then using this formula you can compute ABV.

(OG- FG) X 131= ABV.

This is my first thought as well, that the OP is using the hydrometer wrong and reading the useless (to homebrewers) potential alcohol scale.... Though I find it odd that someone brewing for a decade wouldn't know this, that's usually a noob mistake...but who know...

But I'm going to say that it's highly unlikely there's no alcohol there and weak sap would have affected the mash that much to inhibit conversion and later fermentation.... If he took an og reading he would have noticed a lack of much conversion by having a low OG....

 

[bigdaddybrew]

You're probably using your hydrometer incorrectly. Ignore the "potential alcohol percentages". That's only useful before fermentation and assumes it will ferment totally dry. Most beer will not ferment totally dry. After fermention has begun these numbers are not useful.
Try an online calculator or the simple formula beergolf posted.

 

[Picker]

Will a hydrometer even give a correct reading in Maple sap as opposed to water?

 

[sniktaw]

I would question whether there was a stuck fermentaion for some reason (high OG?) that just looked like it was active. When you carbed, did you bottle carb or keg? Also, how sweet is a "hint" of sweetness? Just curious, as a sugary sweetness could imply unfermented sugar.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Will a hydrometer even give a correct reading in Maple sap as opposed to water?

Maple sap is sugar water...so yes.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Okay so I overlooked that you've been a homebrewer for ten years. How did you determine the 2% number? How did you determine there is now "no alcohol"?

 

[Revvy]

Okay so I overlooked that you've been a homebrewer for ten years. How did you determine the 2% number? How did you determine there is now "no alcohol"?

Yeah, that's what beergolf and I were saying.... I'm wondering too.

great avatar btw... Did you get snow in Jackson? I got a bit here in Hamtramck.

 

[charliethebum]

Troll thread maybe?

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Thanks Revvy...Ultraman was a childhood after school favorite. Yes it snowed like an inch yesterday in Jackson...uggg.

 

[Double_D]

Troll thread maybe?

That was my thought.

 

[murolo013]

Hi, all. Thanks for your responses. You seem to be a little too hung up on OG/FG. I've been using this hydrometer for years with no issue. However, in the event that I did use it wrong this time, the dispositive indicator is the taste. There is no alcohol taste in my beer.

As far as the numbers go, the OG was 1.035, the FG was 1.015, giving me an ABV of around 2.6% or so. When I state that there is no alcohol in the beer, I am referring to the taste, along with this very low number. I was expecting an ABV of 6 or 7% or thereabouts.

Once or twice in the past, I have had a wild yeast or bacteria get into my fermenter, and it ruins the batch. It produces an off flavor that makes the beer entirely undrinkable. This was not the case here. I practiced excellent sanitation, and the beer tastes good. I suppose that my question is about the chemical reaction in fermentation. Do any of you know about a type of fermentation that emits CO2 (my airlock bubbled perfectly for about 4 days), but does not produce (much) alcohol or off flavors?

Thanks again, all.

-Joe-

PS - As I have abandoned my penchant for living under bridges, I can assure you that this is not a troll thread.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Hi, all. Thanks for your responses. You seem to be a little too hung up on OG/FG. I've been using this hydrometer for years with no issue. However, in the event that I did use it wrong this time, the dispositive indicator is the taste. There is no alcohol taste in my beer.

As far as the numbers go, the OG was 1.035, the FG was 1.015, giving me an ABV of around 2.6% or so. When I state that there is no alcohol in the beer, I am referring to the taste, along with this very low number. I was expecting an ABV of 6 or 7% or thereabouts.

Once or twice in the past, I have had a wild yeast or bacteria get into my fermenter, and it ruins the batch. It produces an off flavor that makes the beer entirely undrinkable. This was not the case here. I practiced excellent sanitation, and the beer tastes good. I suppose that my question is about the chemical reaction in fermentation. Do any of you know about a type of fermentation that emits CO2 (my airlock bubbled perfectly for about 4 days), but does not produce (much) alcohol or off flavors?

Thanks again, all.

-Joe-

PS - As I have abandoned my penchant for living under bridges, I can assure you that this is not a troll thread.

I'm just not sure how wort consisting of grain and sap only got a OG of 1.035. How many pounds of grain? What temperature did you mash at and what was your target OG? Yeast used?

 

[BaylessBrewer]

At 1.035 OG you only have the potential to reach 4.59% abv if you took it all the way down to 1.000. I think you're expecting way too much from such a low gravity wort. Add more grains or change your process and try again

 

[bransona]

An og of 1.035 isn't going to result in 6-7% abv. The reason we're hung up on it is because it's the one tell-tale method. Your 2.6%, imo, SHOULDN'T taste like alcohol. I don't get the confusion...

 

[WrQth]

Maple sap/water is not very concentrated, to make syrup it's something like a 30:1 ratio. A pound of maple syrup adds about 30ppg.

 

[murolo013]

I'm just not sure how wort consisting of grain and sap only got a OG of 1.035. How many pounds of grain? What temperature did you mash at and what was your target OG? Yeast used?

This, I suppose, is my question. For this batch, I used an all grain recipe kit from northern brewer (see link below), and followed the recipe exactly. I don't usually use kits, but because I was trying something unusual here, I wanted the base nut brown ale to be a known factor. The only thing that I did differently was to use fresh maple sap instead of water (for both the mash and the boil). I pre-boiled the sap ahead of time to make it suitable for mashing, so I do not think that anything unusual got into the beer that way.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/nut-brown-ale-all-grain-kit

I understand the math, and that is not what is confusing to me. The thing I don't get is why a wort with extra sugar in it (maple sap is about 2% sugar, 98% water) would have produced a lower alcohol beer. The nut brown ale by itself should have given me a beer in the 5-6% range, give or take.

 

[Newsman]

Caveat: I'm fairly new to brewing, and VERY green when it comes to all-grain (only having tried it once.) That being said, I'm wondering if maybe your mash temp was off or something and created unfermentable sugars.

 

[FatDragon]

This, I suppose, is my question. For this batch, I used an all grain recipe kit from northern brewer (see link below), and followed the recipe exactly. I don't usually use kits, but because I was trying something unusual here, I wanted the base nut brown ale to be a known factor. The only thing that I did differently was to use fresh maple sap instead of water (for both the mash and the boil). I pre-boiled the sap ahead of time to make it suitable for mashing, so I do not think that anything unusual got into the beer that way.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/nut-brown-ale-all-grain-kit

I understand the math, and that is not what is confusing to me. The thing I don't get is why a wort with extra sugar in it (maple sap is about 2% sugar, 98% water) would have produced a lower alcohol beer. The nut brown ale by itself should have given me a beer in the 5-6% range, give or take.

That kit's instructions claim an expected OG of 1.044, which is in ~4-4.5% ABV range for a brown ale. The sap doesn't add a great deal of sugar, I want to say from what I've heard it's something like 1.0015 on its own - not a huge contributor to the OG of the beer. It appears that you got rather low mash efficiency to end up with 1.035 - I'd guess somewhere in the 60% range. It could be a process issue (do you typically measure your efficiency?) or it's possible that something like the pH of the sap, a bad thermometer leading to the wrong mash temp, a coarser crush than you usually use, or perhaps stale or poorly-weighed kit grains lead to your low OG.

As for why your beer tastes like it has no alcohol, as others have said, you're in the <3% range. If it tastes like tasty beer, congratulations, you've made an excellent session beer! The rest of us should be so lucky.

 

[sniktaw]

I think you're asking the wrong question which is leading to the confusion. You should be asking why you didn't hit your target OG, not why there is so little alcohol. There weren't actually any extra sugars in your wort because they didn't get converted from the grain. The sap only made up for a small amount of the unconverted sugars, still leaving you without enough sugars to get anywhere close to your expected alcohol level.

 

[bransona]

Were the grains crushed already? Are your hydro and thermometer calibrated still? I'm running out of ideas here, so I'm shooting for the more obvious ones that should go without saying.

 

[andrewmaixner]

There is alcohol in it. It's basic biology.

If you want it to taste boozy/"alcohol hot" you can dump in some vodka or everclear -- a 2.6% ABV beer isn't going to taste like alcohol.

 

[hunter_le five]

You seem to be a little too hung up on OG/FG.

And you don't seem to be paying enough attention to it.

Considering your OG, I'd say you ended up with roughly as much alcohol as to be expected. Sounds like you need to work on your mashing techniques.

The alcohol isn't too low, your mash efficiency is (probably).

 

[Bobby_M]

As others suggested, you had a failed all grain batch for some reason. Were the grains crushed? How much sap did you use for the mash? Did you sparge with sap also? If so, how much?

Backup... have you already brewed all grain successfully before? That's important in the troubleshooting. The reason I'm suspect is that you said you used this sap in the mash "and in the boil" which is where I get confused. Did you add extra sap to the boil? If so, why? How much wort did you derive from the mash such that you had to add to the boil?

 

[GHBWNY]

There is no alcohol taste in my beer.

Yeah, much different than "no alcohol" as per original post.

 

[mucci2k]

This, I suppose, is my question. For this batch, I used an all grain recipe kit from northern brewer (see link below), and followed the recipe exactly. I don't usually use kits, but because I was trying something unusual here, I wanted the base nut brown ale to be a known factor. The only thing that I did differently was to use fresh maple sap instead of water (for both the mash and the boil). I pre-boiled the sap ahead of time to make it suitable for mashing, so I do not think that anything unusual got into the beer that way.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/nut-brown-ale-all-grain-kit

I understand the math, and that is not what is confusing to me. The thing I don't get is why a wort with extra sugar in it (maple sap is about 2% sugar, 98% water) would have produced a lower alcohol beer. The nut brown ale by itself should have given me a beer in the 5-6% range, give or take.

I think using sap instead of water maybe didn't rinse the grains of all their sugar.

 

[zzgorch]

Any chance you inadvertently ordered/received a BIAB kit? I read somewhere that many of these kits are for 3 gal batches, which would have a significantly smaller grain bill, resulting in lower efficiency with water(sap) volumes for 5 gal. Just a thought.

 

[fuelish]

I've never "tasted" alcohol in any beer, really ... malt and hops, yeah....hell, I don't taste "taste" alcohol in wines or meads .... dunno what OP was expecting.....use yer light beer for a boilermaker and call it a day

 

[mongoose33]

My thought was the same as above--mash efficiency issue.

I'm still new at all this, but Murolo, did you check conversion efficiency as you drew off the runnings? Check gravity w/ your hydrometer or a refractometer?

Again, I'm new so this may either be silly or unnecessary, but one of the first things I decided to do with all-grain brewing was check the gravity of the runnings so I could tell if I was getting anything like what I was expecting to produce. If I had incomplete conversion then I'd do something about it--maybe add some DME to the boil.

I brewed yesterday, first runnings 1.093, second runnings 1.043, so I knew I was getting around what I was expecting to get (1.060-1.065) with some top up water.

 

[murolo013]

There is alcohol in it. It's basic biology.

If you want it to taste boozy/"alcohol hot" you can dump in some vodka or everclear -- a 2.6% ABV beer isn't going to taste like alcohol.

Ultimately, all, I think that the consensus seems to be a problem with the mash. I think that this is probably accurate. I am surprised that the wort bubbled so well in the fermenter, though.

I've never added vodka or everclear to a beer before. Anyone have any idea about how much / what type to add a bit of booze flavor without ruining the nut brown taste?

 

[murolo013]

As others suggested, you had a failed all grain batch for some reason. Were the grains crushed? How much sap did you use for the mash? Did you sparge with sap also? If so, how much?

Backup... have you already brewed all grain successfully before? That's important in the troubleshooting. The reason I'm suspect is that you said you used this sap in the mash "and in the boil" which is where I get confused. Did you add extra sap to the boil? If so, why? How much wort did you derive from the mash such that you had to add to the boil?

The grains were crushed, yes. I used a total of about 10 gallons of pre-boiled sap, both for the mash, the sparge, and the boil. At the very end, I wound up having to top off with nearly a gallon of regular cold water. My plan was to use no water at all, but I needed a little bit at the very end before I added the yeast.

 

[Dutch_Food_Geek]

I've never added vodka or everclear to a beer before. Anyone have any idea about how much / what type to add a bit of booze flavor without ruining the nut brown taste?

Is it a nice beer? Would you like an other glass of it? If yes... Don't touch it... You made an amazing new take on a session ale!

To know what went wrong we need some more details. What did you do, how did you do it? Was your kit designed for 5 gallon? (Should be on the bill of what you ordered). What was you Ph? What was de gravity after mashing? What was the gravity of the last runnings? What was the pre boil gravity?

The use of sap itself shouldn't make this happen.