Mr Malty vs beersmith vs while labs

[metaltim]

need to make a starter for a doppelbock. My first lager.

WLP833, OG of 1.095 or so, 11 gallons, 92% viability.

Mrmalty says 1411b cells needed, use 6 packs total of 18.45L starter.
Beersmith says 1400b cells needed, use 3 packs total of 8.34L starter.
Whitelabs chart on the website says use 1 pack in 4L starter.

So malty and beersmith both calculate same required cells, but why the huge discrepancy? White labs doesn't say how many cells needed, but this is instruction for 10 gallons for beer larger than 1.06, but i'm thinking maybe it's an ale. Somewhere else on Wl site I saw for lager, double it.

So.. I don't particularly want to to drop ~$40 on yeast for my 10 gallons of beer.... Or $20 for that matter.

Which is most accurate? Will 2 packs, each in a gallon starter be enough?

 

[enkamania]

My guess is that in MrMalty you used "simple starter" which means no shaking at all.

 

[SEndorf]

Lagers require a LOT of yeast. Plus 1.095 is a big beer. No way around investing in yeast for this. Your calculations presume no stir plate. It would pay for itself in yeast cost over time. The various starter calculators have always varied widely. Not sure what you saw at White Labs but that's dead wrong. I've always found Mrmalty to be too high. Beersmith seems more accurate, but I slightly overpitch from their figures.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Will 2 packs, each in a gallon starter be enough?

Probably close enough. It would be around 1300B cells.

This is the yeast calculator I use... www.yeastcalculator.com. It has never let me down. It says you need 1415B cells, which would require a 9L starter with a stir plate, assuming the yeast is a month old; however, there's no way I'd try to do that in one shot. I'd do a 3-step starter with 1L, 2.5L, & 6L, which would put you around 1400B cells.

If you do 2 starters, you can do two 2-step starters with 1 yeast pack each and steps of 1L & 3.5L, which would put you around 1400B. Again, assuming your new yeast packs are a month after the production date and you are using a stir plate.

 

[metaltim]

Oh sorry, forgot to add, yes I have a stir plate. So yeh I didn't even see the pull down menu on Mr malty; now I'm getting 4 packs @ 12L total, with the slider growth factor thing in the middle.

So stepping a starter, is that done with a single pack? Like; make 2L starter. After 24hrs or whatever, add in more DME/water to make a larger starter? Or do you cold crash/decant first before stepping?

Is that just as effective as doing separate starters each using one pack?


The white labs info is right on the label of the packs. Same as this label:
https://www.whitelabs.com/resources/homebrew-starter-tips

 

[jdauria]

I second yeast calculator...but also, don't assume 100 billion cells in a White Labs pack...check out this thread on how to get the exact cell count from their website based on the lot number on the package. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...-an-accurate-cell-count-of-your-yeast.593881/

 

[jdauria]

Or do you cold crash/decant first before stepping?

Crash and decant first.

 

[dmtaylor]

MrMalty will get you into the ballpark, but his estimates are always way too high. I'd go with 2 packs in a 1.5- or 2-gallon starter, that's plenty. White Labs is apparently way off, don't listen to that one.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

You have another option if you want to get by on one yeast pack: make a smaller lager first. Whenever I make 11 gallons of doppelbock, I make a 5 gallon batch of something else - bock, honey bock, eisbock - something in the 1.050 range, and then I split the yeast between two 6.5 gallon carboys of the 10 gallon doppelbock.

 

[Hanglow]

I'd definitely make another beer first. Making such a huge starter is rather silly imo

 

[LLBeanJ]

I'd definitely make another beer first. Making such a huge starter is rather silly imo

I would too. Since lagers require so much yeast anyway, whenever I make a lager starter I always be sure to get 2-3 brews from it by pitching fermenter slurry into subsequent batches.