Melomel Questions

[Flow]

Hello all. I have a question about melomel that I could not find the answer to and figured I might as well ask some other questions to see if I understand them correctly.

I have some raspberry melomel I started yesterday, and I decided to do the primary in 1 gallon carboys. I left some space in the carboys so they can get air and in case they foam a lot, and have the lids on loosely so it will not build up pressure and is still covered.

My main question is what would be the best way to take care of the fruit cap in a carboy? Some other questions I was curious about is at what point do I need to worry about keeping air out of it, when should I rack to secondary, and can these go hand in hand?

I think I need to worry about air after primary is over, and the way to tell is when it does not bubble as much or hydrometer readings stay fairly consistent right? On that note I am somewhat worried about taking readings regularly because I do not want to move it too much or risk infection. As far as racking goes it seems like a personal decision from what I can tell, though mainly it is based on the sediment settling right?

Thank you for any advice and insight.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi Flow - and welcome. A couple of quick thoughts - OK not two but three:
1. A fruit cap can be a very real problem for two reasons - first, the top of the cap may have just enough moisture to rot and introduce all kinds of bacteria and mold that spoils your wine or mead and the second is that fruit caps can pack so tightly in the neck of a glass carboy that they prevent any CO2 from leaving and given the amount of CO2 that is produced (half the WEIGHT of the sugar is converted to CO2) that can result in enough pressure to explode a glass carboy. You want to stir the cap daily to break it up and to make certain that it is always saturated with liquid. And that brings me to my second point
2. Far better than using a carboy as a primary is to invest in food grade plastic buckets (your Home Depot or equivalent hardware store will sell these buckets for about 4 or 5 dollars) . Buckets loosely covered with a clean towel make it very easy to add/remove fruit and break up any cap that might form. And that leads me on to my third point
3. Air during active fermentation is really not a problem. You are making a wine or mead not beer. You have no real concern about lacto-bacteria souring grain wort and your yeast are producing so much CO2 that the gas pressure leaving the bucket by far exceeds any pressure from the air trying to enter. But more than that your yeast want some O2 as they bud (reproduce). Brewers tend to pitch larger colonies of yeast than wine makers but wine makers tend to encourage budding during the first week or two of fermentation. Stirring (aggressively) to remove CO2 (CO2 stresses yeast both mechanically - the pressure of the gas on cell walls and chemically - CO2 breaks down and becomes carbonic acid thus adding to the acidity of the solution and too low a pH can stall fermentation), to break up fruit caps and to introduce small amounts of O2 during this time is a desirable procedure. Pitching the yeast and sealing your fermenter with a bung and airlock is not really what you want to do.

 

[Flow]

Hi Flow - and welcome. A couple of quick thoughts - OK not two but three:
1. A fruit cap can be a very real problem for two reasons - first, the top of the cap may have just enough moisture to rot and introduce all kinds of bacteria and mold that spoils your wine or mead and the second is that fruit caps can pack so tightly in the neck of a glass carboy that they prevent any CO2 from leaving and given the amount of CO2 that is produced (half the WEIGHT of the sugar is converted to CO2) that can result in enough pressure to explode a glass carboy. You want to stir the cap daily to break it up and to make certain that it is always saturated with liquid. And that brings me to my second point
2. Far better than using a carboy as a primary is to invest in food grade plastic buckets (your Home Depot or equivalent hardware store will sell these buckets for about 4 or 5 dollars) . Buckets loosely covered with a clean towel make it very easy to add/remove fruit and break up any cap that might form. And that leads me on to my third point
3. Air during active fermentation is really not a problem. You are making a wine or mead not beer. You have no real concern about lacto-bacteria souring grain wort and your yeast are producing so much CO2 that the gas pressure leaving the bucket by far exceeds any pressure from the air trying to enter. But more than that your yeast want some O2 as they bud (reproduce). Brewers tend to pitch larger colonies of yeast than wine makers but wine makers tend to encourage budding during the first week or two of fermentation. Stirring (aggressively) to remove CO2 (CO2 stresses yeast both mechanically - the pressure of the gas on cell walls and chemically - CO2 breaks down and becomes carbonic acid thus adding to the acidity of the solution and too low a pH can stall fermentation), to break up fruit caps and to introduce small amounts of O2 during this time is a desirable procedure. Pitching the yeast and sealing your fermenter with a bung and airlock is not really what you want to do.

Ah I see, I had not realized about the pressure being an issue nor about the CO2 breaking down and stressing yeast. I left quite a decent bit of air so the fruit is not in the neck fortunately, and do not have an airlock on. I have some buckets but did not use them for a few reasons, though they may not have been good ones thinking back on it. I am just starting out with brewing so I am probably being overly cautious because I am worried I will mess something up.

 

[CKuhns]

Agree with all that Bernard said above - For fruit, to get around some of the concerns mentioned. I usually sanitize a paint strainer bag from your local hardware store add the fruit and a handful of those flat glass marbles folks use for vase arrangements to sink the fruit in the bucket. No worries then about fruit making a cap capturing CO2 or floating and growing things and makes clean up and racking a breeze.

The best thing with buckets is the size of the opening and the valve at the bottom (if equipped) for racking. (You can and add a valve to the bucket to help with racking to a carboy or bottling.)

As far as racking - Yes pretty much a personal decision, with a little experience you will pretty quickly figure out what is best for your yeast and or situation. Rack off the gross lee's after primary, move to a gallon jug or carboy reducing headspace as much as possible, add a airlock and rack when you just cant stand to see the lee's anymore. (That's pretty much what I do.)

As you mentioned active fermentation (Primary) is best to be determined when complete via a couple hydrometer readings. As such you may introduce a little air when checking it. I wouldn't be overly concerned. Yes oxidation is a thing but unlike beer and ciders mead IMO is a bit more tolerant to a brief exposure on occasion. O

thers may have differing POV on this, but my relatively untrained pallet sure can't tell the difference from when I open it n occasion or don't.​

 

[MaxTheSpy]

move to a gallon jug or carboy reducing headspace as much as possible, add a airlock and rack when you just cant stand to see the lee's anymore. (That's pretty much what I do.)

I agree 100% Glass marbles are a great way to reduce the headspace in your carboy, I have about 10 lbs of these marbles and use them all the time! Just make sure to sanitize them.

I decided to sink the bag of fruit for the first time not too long ago and I can assure you that it is the way to go! Makes cleanup super quick!

 

[Flow]

Okay cool. That pretty much addresses all of my concerns and then some. Thank you all for the information, I appreciate it.

 

[SeanTheWheatBrewer]

Hello all. I have a question about melomel that I could not find the answer to and figured I might as well ask some other questions to see if I understand them correctly.

I have some raspberry melomel I started yesterday, and I decided to do the primary in 1 gallon carboys. I left some space in the carboys so they can get air and in case they foam a lot, and have the lids on loosely so it will not build up pressure and is still covered.

My main question is what would be the best way to take care of the fruit cap in a carboy? Some other questions I was curious about is at what point do I need to worry about keeping air out of it, when should I rack to secondary, and can these go hand in hand?

I think I need to worry about air after primary is over, and the way to tell is when it does not bubble as much or hydrometer readings stay fairly consistent right? On that note I am somewhat worried about taking readings regularly because I do not want to move it too much or risk infection. As far as racking goes it seems like a personal decision from what I can tell, though mainly it is based on the sediment settling right?

Thank you for any advice and insight.

I use balloons for an air lock on my 1 gallon mead batches. CO2 coming off solution preventing oxidation. Ballon contraction indicates fermenting is primarily done. I use about ten raisins for nutrients if I don’t have fruits in the batch. I refrigerate then rack next day to another 1 gallon plastic water jug I sanitized. YouTube “Michael Jordan Mead” to see this technique in action. Never had a batch go bad yet!