Measuring Citric Acid in Bru'n Water?

[tonyolympia]

I am considering using citric acid to add acidity to my mash and sparge water. Neither of my two LHBS carries lactic acid or sauermalz, which would have been my preference.

I'm using Bru'n Water for my salt and acid calculations, and it doesn't appear that citric acid is an option on the "Water Adjustment" sheet. It does appear on the "Sparge Acidification" sheet.

According to the "Water Knowledge" sheet, I need to add acid to the mash water prior to heating. So, it seems that I'd need to know how much citric acid to add. Can someone help me understand why the "Water Adjustment" sheet helps you calculate a lactic acid mash addition (in addition to phosphoric and other acids I don't have), but doesn't include citric acid?

Can anyone help me figure out how to translate a liquid lactic acid addition into a solid citric acid addition? I'd be using 1.3 ml of 88% lactic acid in the mash, and 0.6 ml in the sparge water. The beer is a tripel.

Thanks for any input you can offer!

 

[tonyolympia]

Sorry to be a pest, but... anyone?

 

[ajdelange]

Assuming that you are shooting for mash pH of 5.4 a citric acid addition of 0.71 grams in 5 gallons is equivalent to 1.3 mL of 88% lactic acid in 5 gal.

 

[tonyolympia]

Thank you so much. Your assumptions are correct, except that my mash volume will be slightly more, 5.1 gallons. Not enough to re-calculate the acid addition, I'd imagine.

Is there a formula or an online calculator you used to do that conversion, so that I can do it myself in the future?

 

[mabrungard]

The acid addition formulas in Bru'n Water are from AJ's paper on water acidification. A link is here:
http://hbd.org/ajdelange/Brewing_articles/Water_acidification.html

 

[ajdelange]

Is there a formula or an online calculator you used to do that conversion, so that I can do it myself in the future?

I was going to say 'no' but then Martin (thanks!) popped in and reminded me about that old post. You can build a spreadsheet from the procedure there.

 

[tonyolympia]

I was going to say 'no' but then Martin (thanks!) popped in and reminded me about that old post. You can build a spreadsheet from the procedure there.

Thanks to the both of you. That report looks like it might be more math than I can handle, but I'm going to wrangle with it and see what I can do.

Martin, if you ever feel like incorporating calculations for citric acid into the mash adjustment sheet, that would be a valuable upgrade to your brilliant spreadsheet.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks to the both of you. That report looks like it might be more math than I can handle, but I'm going to wrangle with it and see what I can do.

Martin, if you ever feel like incorporating calculations for citric acid into the mash adjustment sheet, that would be a valuable upgrade to your brilliant spreadsheet.

I can't really disagree, except that phosphoric acid and lactic acid are so readily available, and the flavor impact from using phosphoric acid isn't anything like using citric acid. I would not want to use citric acid in any large amount in my beer, and so simply use phosphoric acid or lactic acid if the amount is relatively small.

 

[tonyolympia]

I can't really disagree, except that phosphoric acid and lactic acid are so readily available, and the flavor impact from using phosphoric acid isn't anything like using citric acid. I would not want to use citric acid in any large amount in my beer, and so simply use phosphoric acid or lactic acid if the amount is relatively small.

Yes, it seems like my LHBS really ought to carry lactic and phosphoric acids, but they don't. I could mail order a supply, and likely will in the future. But I don't really ever need to order anything else, and I hate to pay shipping.

 

[ajdelange]

I often point out that the earliest brewing books (an I even got a couple of hands raised when I asked in anyone in the room at AHA remembered them) called for a teaspoonful of citric acid in many if not most of their recipes. Never tried it myself but give the popularity of Citra hops perhaps its not such a bad idea.

 

[Yooper]

I often point out that the earliest brewing books (an I even got a couple of hands raised when I asked in anyone in the room at AHA remembered them) called for a teaspoonful of citric acid in many if not most of their recipes. Never tried it myself but give the popularity of Citra hops perhaps its not such a bad idea.

That's a good point, and certainly worth considering. My perspective is that I'm also a cheesemaker, and while citric acid is commonly used to drop the pH and allow curd formation, I can definitely taste it until the cheese has fermented. There is a definite flavor impact from citric acid, and I use it in some of my wines to simulate lemon juice to provide tartness to a wine. A very little bit provides a pretty big flavor impact.

I wonder if adding enough to drop the pH of a mash (relying on citric acid as the only acid) would have such a big flavor impact, as it does taste "sour" to me.

 

[helibrewer]

Yes, it seems like my LHBS really ought to carry lactic and phosphoric acids, but they don't. I could mail order a supply, and likely will in the future. But I don't really ever need to order anything else, and I hate to pay shipping.

You might ask them to order it for you if they can. Otherwise these guys have everything: Enartis Vinquiry. I use the 25% because I also use it as a reagent in my Aeration/Oxidation testing for free SO2 in wine. I'm sure the 85% is fine too and would last much longer.

Just watch for Hazmat fees if you order a large quantity.