Maybe I Just Suck at Brewing Light Ales

[MyCarHasAbs]

A while back I bought 3 Big Ben Pale Ales from Midwest as an experiment. The first two I kind of knew was going to fail as someone told me you can get away with fermenting for a week and then bottling. The details for those batches don't really matter. The third and final batch has been bottled for one week and cold brew coffee was added along with the priming sugar before bottling. I did a taste test post bottling and the coffee flavor def came out, and there was very light hop aroma but not much. Just popped open a bottle and the same lingering aromas are present from the first two batches. I'm still tasting diacytl. It's far more drinkable in comparison to the first two batches but I can't figure out why this off flavor is still present!

Here's some specs for the batch:
Reverse Osmosis water
Approx. 7gallons used total for strike and sparge
SG: 1.050 FG: 1.012 <----spot on btw for the recipe.
Dry yeast, rehydrated with about two cups of water at 95F.
Fermented for 2 weeks at 64F, followed by 68 for the 3rd week. Cold crashed for the 4th week.
Stayed in primary the whole time, I'm not part of the secondary band wagon.

I re calibrated my palate by opening up a DC Brau 'The Corruption' IPA and immediately the hops hit you along with this heavy malt body. I went back to my American Coffee Pale Ale and the coffee is present and honestly I think masking some of the diacytl taste but I get no hops at all and a little bit of sweetness, I presume from the splenda I used for the cold brew coffee water. (the splenda was boiled in before chilling).

I've also had a stout sitting for a few weeks now and just before adding cocoa nibs with vodka and oak chips soaked in bourbon, I took a gravity reading after two weeks and the richness and sweetness just after two weeks was amazing. The stout tasted so good with out additives I could have bottled it up right there and submitted it for a contest.

The only difference between these two brews besides the hop and grain bill is the stout came with a clarifying tablet. That and one came from Midwest and the other from MoreBeer (btw, their AG kits are cheaper than Midwest...true story).

 

[C-Rider]

give it another 2 weeks at 70*....Coffee Pale Ale....Hmmmm...never thought of that. I've done a ton of coffee stouts. Sounds interesting.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

give it another 2 weeks at 70*....Coffee Pale Ale....Hmmmm...never thought of that. I've done a ton of coffee stouts. Sounds interesting.

I guess so..I can't think of anything I could have done wrong. Gave the yeast plenty of time and gave it the right temp the whole way through.

I've had a Coffee IPA at a brewery in Northern VA called Adroit Theory. It was okay, my issue with it was it was way too bitter. Bitter hops with bitter coffee taste was a smack in the face to your taste buds. But I think I improved the coffee flavor by boiling sweeter in with the water used to brew the coffee cold.

Might start using my heater to help the carb process up in the evenings when I'm home.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

The only other thing I can think of is the carboy isn't as clean as I think it is. There has bee a very small trace of something left behind that no matter how well I rinse and scrub with my brush I can't get it off. It's a bit hazy but does have some slight texture to it. Perhaps that's holding baddies.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

one thing I can think of that your fermentation temps were measured how? Ive had beer raise as much as 10 degrees over air temps before

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

one thing I can think of that your fermentation temps were measured how? Ive had beer raise as much as 10 degrees over air temps before

Digital temp controller with thermowell hoods and the temp sensor tucked inside the the metal rod inside the carboy.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

make sure your cooling your wort well below the target fermentation temperature then raise it up slowly

clean out your carboys and bottles with boiling water then try a different yeast, brew the same way, then let us know??

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

make sure your cooling your wort well below the target fermentation temperature then raise it up slowly

clean out your carboys and bottles with boiling water then try a different yeast, brew the same way, then let us know??

I have plastic car boys, can they withstand water that hot?

Bottles aren't a bad idea. I just assume the cleaning system I have is shooting enough sanitizer up inside.

Would you say a good target temp would be 60 or 65f?

 

[GrogNerd]

so your pale ales have a problem not present in your stout and you're using RO water?

doing anything with your water chemistry or anything to adjust mash pH?

 

[Tombstone0]

Did you add any nutrients to your reverse osmosis water? RO is like distilled water there's nothing in it. I don't have the knowledge to tell you what additions to make but there are plenty of people here who do.

 

[Takuie]

I would try fermenting on the lower side of tolerable temp range and see. A lot of times, fermenting will increase the temp a few degrees before the temp can be brought down.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

so your pale ales have a problem not present in your stout and you're using RO water?

doing anything with your water chemistry or anything to adjust mash pH?

Correct and no nothin special chemical wise. The stout kit came with a clarifying tablet.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

So instead for lighter ales they should be fermented in the lower 60s for two weeks? I was taught not long ago that it's good to warm it up during the 3rd week to encourage the yeast to finish up.

 

[Hello]

I have plastic car boys, can they withstand water that hot?

Bottles aren't a bad idea. I just assume the cleaning system I have is shooting enough sanitizer up inside.

Would you say a good target temp would be 60 or 65f?

Depending upon the yeast 60 may be too low. I shoot for 64-65 with something like US-05 knowing it's slightly hotter inside.

Plastic carboys can't withstand boiling water as far as I've been able to tell, they tend to start to buckle. I think Better Bottle says 145F as does the Northern Brewer Bubbler. Basically your tap water shouldn't be much hotter than that on the hottest setting of your water heater, but take a reading with a thermometer before you dump water that is too hot in the plastic carboy.

So instead for lighter ales they should be fermented in the lower 60s for two weeks? I was taught not long ago that it's good to warm it up during the 3rd week to encourage the yeast to finish up.

How warm do you go? I don't ramp up the heat myself, but I will let the carboy sit at room temp (if in my house) after the 2nd week or so.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Ironically my wheat beers are just fine.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Depending upon the yeast 60 may be too low. I shoot for 64-65 with something like US-05 knowing it's slightly hotter inside.



Plastic carboys can't withstand boiling water as far as I've been able to tell, they tend to start to buckle. I think Better Bottle says 145F as does the Northern Brewer Bubbler. Basically your tap water shouldn't be much hotter than that on the hottest setting of your water heater, but take a reading with a thermometer before you dump water that is too hot in the plastic carboy.





How warm do you go? I don't ramp up the heat myself, but I will let the carboy sit at room temp (if in my house) after the 2nd week or so.

In the 3rd week I'll go to 68-69

 

[Hello]

In the 3rd week I'll go to 68-69

Side note, it's not super wise to use brushes in plastic carboys as they can scratch them. You said they're hazy when clean, I'd be buying a new carboy.

Your temp at 3 weeks seems fine. Fermentation should be done, but I take a reading before I let it sit at room temp. That said, back to your water. RO water seems like it could need something. The wheat could be covering up whatever is missing so I'm wondering if you need to add something. You'd have to plug the information into something like Bru'n water and see. Pale ales to me are unforgiving of water issues.

 

[Takuie]

With it being an lighter beer, I would avoid ramping up at all. Lighter beers are less forgiving and any "errors" will be easily unmasked.

Personally, I gave up on ramping up all my beers unless it was a heavy one. Yes it does encourage yeast growth, but strains it and off flavors are more likely to pop up. I'd rather just let it sit in the fermenter a couple more days. I always stay to the lower side of tolerable fermenting temps. During heavy fermentation stages, I have seen the temp rise 5 or more degrees before temp can be brought down. That's even with my temp controller at .5 degree tolerance range.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

So it's sounds like the two most likely culprits are the water isn't being treated correctly and the carboy may not be as clean as they should. Sounds like I should take the opportunity to upgrade to a few 6 gal car boys so I'm not losing a gallon Each batch.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

So just use hot water and sanitizer for plastic?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

a good beer bucket will with stand over 180 at least just to sterilize any previous yeast or bacteria, Ive done it many times, just be careful

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

This is one of my carboys. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1432082561.321548.jpg

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

betterboys will not, only glass and a good strong brew bucket

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

I prefer not to use glass carboys. The pic is showing the haze and residue I'm seeing.

 

[Yooper]

This is one of my carboys. View attachment 279220

Yikes- is that a film of something, or is it scratched? Something there is wrong with your fermenter. I have some Better Bottles that are 7 or 8 years old, and none of them look like that!

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Yikes- is that a film of something, or is it scratched? Something there is wrong with your fermenter. I have some Better Bottles that are 7 or 8 years old, and none of them look like that!

Not sure. Guess I found the problem. Funny, the kit I got over a year ago came with a brush. Guess that's a sh*tty kit haha. If it's scratched for sure then my educated guess says to replace it or else it will keep holding bacteria.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

What's likely happening is some of the aggressive fermentation is rising up high in the carboy leaving krusty krausen left over and that crap is hard to clean. Unless the key is just hot water and a lot of shaking and soaking.

 

[Yooper]

What's likely happening is some of the aggressive fermentation is rising up high in the carboy leaving krusty krausen left over and that crap is hard to clean. Unless the key is just hot water and a lot of shaking and soaking.

Or PBW or oxyclean free.

Since you can't use a brush on it (it'll scratch), you could put hot water (say, 130 degrees) in it with some PBW and a washcloth and shake it around (the washcloth will work to help 'rub' the spots) and then let it sit until cool/cold and then rinse with fresh hot water.

In order to sanitize a carboy, it has to be clean first.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

So you're saying put the washcloth in side and let it swish and bounce around. What's PBW?

 

[btbnl]

Big Ben is an English Pale Ale - definitely not a hop bomb, with only an ounce each of Willamette for bittering and Fuggles for aroma giving about 20IBU. The Corruption, on the other hand, is in-your-face Columbus hoppy and comes in at 80IBU.

At very least your taste-bud calibration is way off!

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Oh I know the IBU's are way off. But the point was I should have been tasting some hops. Granted the coffee flavor could be masking it.

The reason I chose something super hoppy to refresh my palate was so that sense could be 'refreshed' so to speak..reminds my tongue what it's looking for. It works for me. Similar to how they give a drug sniffing dog a fresh sniff before sending it in to a school to ruin some students days haha.

 

[d3track]

This is one of my carboys. View attachment 279220

Mother of god.....that's close to just tossing it and getting a new one

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Mother of god.....that's close to just tossing it and getting a new one

That bad eh?

 

[d3track]

That bad eh?

From that shot it looks scratched and stained, sorry

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

From that shot it looks scratched and stained, sorry

No biggie, I needed to eventually get 6 gallon carboys anyway and now I learned I need to step up in the sanitation department.

If it's scratched it needs to be replaced right? There's no keeping scratches 100% clean.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Update:

Bought a 6 gal carboy and some gypsum and calcium to help treat the water for whatever I'm making.

Opened a second test bottle of the coffee pale ale and my fiancé swears she doesn't taste anything wrong with it. I still taste something a little funny but it's better than last week.

Making a hazelnut Porter today and I'm adding some calcium to help with the malt flavor. Also I have the clean 6 gal.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

It's got a nice color though!! View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1432581840.143333.jpg

 

[BierGut]

Is the beer carbonated? Looks flat in the pic

 

[rje45]

"Some yeast strains, particularly flocculent English ale strains, are known to be heavy diacetyl producers"

Quoted from http://www.whitelabs.com/files/Diacetyl_Time_Line.pdf

If you are taking care to regulate your fermentation temperature and you're not rushing to cold crash the beer too early, the yeast should be cleaning up the diacetyl. The two options are contamination (also described in the White Labs document) and a high diacetyl-producing yeast. If you're not filtering and you allow some suspended yeast in the bottles, it will clean up over time.

Based on your carboy pictures, I think there's a chance for both of these conditions, depending on which yeast.

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

That carboy doesn't look clean at all.