Mason / Picante / Salsa JARS for BOTTLING....

[grndslm]

OK, so I was inspired in the canning homebrew thread to consider mason jars when brewing a future batch.

I'm well aware that mason jars use "negative pressure", that the lid is actually 2 pieces, that the glass isn't "designed for carbonation pressures", etc... but I still think it could work more than 95% of the time.

Going thru the dollar store, I saw quite a few salsa jars that looked to be around 12 ounces in size, altho, I didn't actually read them.

Has anyone actually tried "bottling" in these salsa jars????

The #1 complain with mason jars seems to be with the two-piece lids more than the ability of the glass to resist carbonation pressures.... so why wouldn't salsa jars work???

**NOTE** -- For the sake of simplicity, let's say I already knew the exact amount of priming sugar to use for a 5 gallon batch. Let's say 3 ounces for a 5-gal batch, instead of 5 ounces that would be used in typical bottle conditioning bottles. There MUST be a limit in which the salsa jars will carb, yet not explode. Correct??

 

[JuanMoore]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to use mason jars? Here's how I look at it: Mason jars are relatively expensive, potentially dangerous, have a high chance of not sealing, could potentially make a huge mess if they explode, don't allow for higher levels of carbonation, have a large exposed surface area which increases oxidation risk and makes accurate priming difficult, and are clear which introduces the risk of light skunking your beer. Amber beer bottles on the other hand can easily be found for free and have none of these associated risks, problems, or compromises. Seems like a no-brainer decision to me, but maybe there's something I'm overlooking.

 

[emjay]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to use mason jars? Here's how I look at it: Mason jars are relatively expensive, potentially dangerous, have a high chance of not sealing, could potentially make a huge mess if they explode, don't allow for higher levels of carbonation, have a large exposed surface area which increases oxidation risk and makes accurate priming difficult, and are clear which introduces the risk of light skunking your beer. Amber beer bottles on the other hand can easily be found for free and have none of these associated risks, problems, or compromises. Seems like a no-brainer decision to me, but maybe there's something I'm overlooking.

The fact that this guy is desperate to be a trailblazer? He also made a thread about whirlpooling the secondary. Because he had a gut feeling it would help the beer.

 

[ChshreCat]

Jars like that are designed to hold a vacuum, not pressure. You're doing the exact opposite of what they're meant for.

Look at a jar of salsa. It's got that little button on the top of the lid that you push down on to see if the jar's been opened. That's because it's canned with a vacuum in it. Not carbonation pressures. Same goes for mason jars. They won't hold pressure. They were never meant to.

 

[JuanMoore]

The fact that this guy is desperate to be a trailblazer? He also made a thread about whirlpooling the secondary. Because he had a gut feeling it would help the beer.

Wow. I missed that trainwreck of a thread.

 

[hoptualBrew]

The only pressure I have used a mason jar for is freshly roasted coffee beans that emit, most likely, a fraction of the CO2 that carbonating beer would. The only way to really know is trial & error. Just take precaution & probably only do one mason jar of beer to start with and put it in a box or some kind of container to control a potential explosion & mess.

 

[Spicemon1972]

Here we go again - another "whirlpooling in the secondary" thread. I wonder how far this one is going to go...
-watching the train wreck-

 

[carlisle_bob]

Hi

If you dig into the canning boards there's a lot of data on positive pressure in that sort of bottle. Bottom line seems to be - not a good thing. Given that scrap wine and beer bottles are essentially free (tell your friends you want them) what's the advantage here?

Bob

 

[Airborneguy]

Why would you take one of the easiest aspects of the hobby and make it complicated? Furthermore, considering six-pack holders and cases are designed for the standard bottles, even if this did work, you'd be creating a transportation nightmare for yourself.

 

[Revvy]

I think in the canning homebrew thread I posted a pretty thorough explanation of how mason jars worked and how it's not meant to withstand the pressure generated by bottle conditioning, and many of the posters backed me up, so just because one person is too dense to grasp what is a really simple concept, why do you STILL feel the need to re-ask?


I have a simple answer...have you ever bought commercial beer in a mason, picante and/or salsa bottles? There must be some valid reasons, or EVERYONE would be doing it...

Also, have you come across many brands of CARBONATED picante or salsas? Since carbonation is not something associated with it, do you think in the cost cutting society that a company would use glass jars that were rated to any PSI high enough to actually withstand the pressure of carbonation?

 

[JoeBronco]

Wow. I missed that trainwreck of a thread.

Didn't miss much. Just a troll looking for attention.

 

[WesleyS]

Judging by the other threads started by this guy, he must just be looking for everyone to agree with him even though common sense and science don't back him up. You can package your over oxygenated "whirlpooled" beer in mason jars and let them explode if you want. I'll be drinking my non oxygenated beer out of a bottle that won't disfigure me when carbonated.

 

[carlisle_bob]

...

I have a simple answer...have you ever bought commercial beer in a mason, picante and/or salsa bottles? There must be some valid reasons, or EVERYONE would be doing it...

Hi

It's a pretty common container for moonshine. Maybe that's where this is headed...

Bob

 

[brewingmeister]

It's a pretty common container for moonshine. Maybe that's where this is headed...

Headed to a land where brew is put jars and moonshine is carbonated? Sounds like a horrible place.

 

[JoeBronco]

I still think this guy is related OR IS THIS GUY!
Sure fire sign is "Takesomeadvice" NEVER takes advice...

 

[Revvy]

Hi

It's a pretty common container for moonshine. Maybe that's where this is headed...

Bob

But moonshine is NOT carbonated.....Really has nothing to do with this conversation unless the shiners decide to start selling fizzy white lightening, then THEY will be putting that in brown beer bottles, being the practical, frugal sort that they are....

 

[Obliviousbrew]

I still think this guy is related OR IS THIS GUY!
Sure fire sign is "Takesomeadvice" NEVER takes advice...

I had the same feeling...

 

[ruralbrew]

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but mason jars do work for beer. Probably not the most perfect container but they do work. I used them one time for a batch, two quart mason jars vs 12 oz bottles makes bottling a lot quicker. Stay away from the widemouth jars, too much pressure on the lids and they tend to kink and you lose carbonation. But the regular jars work perfectly. Just screw the lids on good and tight and keep away from the light.
I wouldn't use them for highly carbonated beer, like a Belgian. Lets face it, they deserve a cork and a hooded cage. And I wouldn't go out and buy canning jars for this purpose, but if you have them they work just fine.

 

[JoeBronco]

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but mason jars do work for beer. Probably not the most perfect container but they do work. I used them one time for a batch, two quart mason jars vs 12 oz bottles makes bottling a lot quicker. Stay away from the widemouth jars, too much pressure on the lids and they tend to kink and you lose carbonation. But the regular jars work perfectly. Just screw the lids on good and tight and keep away from the light.
I wouldn't use them for highly carbonated beer, like a Belgian. Lets face it, they deserve a cork and a hooded cage. And I wouldn't go out and buy canning jars for this purpose, but if you have them they work just fine.

Your not raining on anything. Common sense and practicality tell us that it is a bad idea. The OP uses 22oz bombers exclusively (at least thats what his signature says).

lets do this the old school way and see the pros and cons.

PROS! & Cons of Mason Jars
* SIZE - 32oz vs 22oz - So you need 20 jars vs 29 Bombers.
Bigger is size? yes. PRO!

* COST - Its about $25 for a pack of 24 jars. Bombers and 12oz bottles can be found for FREE at most pubs and bars. IF you fell it necessary to purchase new they are $24 for 24. All good home brewers drink craft beer so im sure saving a few bombers is easy enough.
Cheaper? Its about the same - With bombers leaning on the "free" side WASH

* Easy to clean?... Well, not really. You now have to worry about cleaning and sanitizing the lid and plastic coating on the top of the jars that seal the jars. If the plastic coating gets scratched it can harbor bacteria and spoil now 32oz of beer. Just as easy if not easier to clean a bottle of beer. Fill with cleaner & shake, then fill with sanitizer and your good.
EASIER to clean? No CON !

* Oxidation. More surface area = more oxidation. There is a reason Professionals dont use short and stocky bottles. CON!

* RISK of bottle bombs? Well all bottles have that risk. But the thinner glass from mason jars tend to crack easier and WILL blow up quicker than a bottle. Ever drop a mason jar? Ever drop a beer bottle? Yes, they might work on light carbonation's but the one time you put just a touch to much priming sugar you just created a time bomb of clear glass and ruined a $50+ batch of beer. CON!

* LIGHT STRUCK. This is a no brainer. Unless you like your beer to have the taste of skunk this is a CON!

* Time saving? Nope. Maybe cut 20 minutes in the bottling time but over all it will take longer for the mason jars to carbonate. There size and shape will add about another week to the bottle conditioning time. More beer = More time to carb. CON!


To answer the question. Yes it can be done, but is not practical. Its not economical. Its not safe.

 

[Special Hops]

If you really want to use bigger containers for bottling use 2 liter soda bottles am keep them out of the light.

No risk of beer grenades and shards of glass everywhere. Plus you can tighten those caps pretty well to get a good seal.

 

[JuanMoore]

Yes they can be used, but they're far from an ideal vessel, and I still don't see a single advantage to using them over other options.

lets do this the old school way and see the pros and cons.

PROS! & Cons of Mason Jars
* SIZE - 32oz vs 22oz - So you need 20 jars vs 29 Bombers.
Bigger is size? yes. PRO!

Since 32 oz and 1L (33.8 oz) amber bottles with either crown caps or swing tops are relatively common, I see the size as a wash.

Another con to using mason jars that I barely touched on earlier is that the wide top makes getting the same amount of headspace in every jar difficult, which leads to uneven carbonation and makes the risk of bottle bombs even greater.

After skimming the thread that "inspired" the OP to start this thread, his motivations are supposedly to find something that holds a greater volume, doesn't require buying new caps, and is relatively inexpensive. In that case I'd suggest 1L and 2L soda bottles. I think Emjay is right though, and the OP's true motivation is more likely trolling for attention, whether they realize it or not.

 

[terrapinj]

you need to replace the lids on canning jars FYI - after they seal they form a depression that makes it difficult to reseal air tight

 

[ruralbrew]

Like I said, not the perfect solution but they do work. And yes, they have to be kept out of the light. And no, I wouldn't go buy them special, I had them in the back of the basement. The lids are a one time use item. Not perfect, but if you run short of bottles in a pinch they will work.

 

[grndslm]

After skimming the thread that "inspired" the OP to start this thread, his motivations are supposedly to find something that holds a greater volume, doesn't require buying new caps, and is relatively inexpensive. In that case I'd suggest 1L and 2L soda bottles.

My motivations are not necessarily to hold a greater volume, but definitely something that doesn't require buying new caps, and is relatively inexpensive, of course.

The plastic suggestions are OK, but they really aren't for long-term storage.

After 2 months of bottle conditioning, I would prefer skunked beer in glass bottles to anything out of a plastic bottle.

I haven't tried the newer metal bottles with twist-off lids, but that's on my list.

Glass is preferred, and glass with re-usable lids would be ideal. Again... if using 3-oz [or less?] of priming sugar per 5-gallon batch... the need to tighten down "as hard as possible" might not be necessary, but still sufficiently hard, of course.

The thing that really inspired me to ask this is because my great-grandmother use to bottle/can beer when my grandfather was a kid, and I'm trying to figure out how they did it... I would figure mason jars would have been the obvious solution.

It would be nice to have some reusable bottles/jars around in a SHTF scenario, like the double great depression....... and you also had enough bulk grains and hops to make you thru that sh*t storm.

 

[grndslm]

I think I might buy some $1 salsa jars and see how they work. The clear glass issue isn't that bad if I know how to keep them protected from the light.

As long as the threads are tight between lid and glass, I think they would work well enough to not need replacing...

This is my hypothesis.

EDIT: well, I guess it depends on if they have the seal like mason jars, which I'm not sure about now. Could be different from brand to brand?? But they'd still need to have a seal, I'd imagine... so we'll see.

 

[terrapinj]

I think I might buy some $1 salsa jars and see how they work. The clear glass issue isn't that bad if I know how to keep them protected from the light.

As long as the threads are tight between lid and glass, I think they would work well enough to not need replacing...

This is my hypothesis.

EDIT: well, I guess it depends on if they have the seal like mason jars, which I'm not sure about now. Could be different from brand to brand?? But they'd still need to have a seal, I'd imagine... so we'll see.

you are going to need new lids each time which are much more expensive than bottle caps

 

[JuanMoore]

My motivations are not necessarily to hold a greater volume, but definitely something that doesn't require buying new caps, and is relatively inexpensive, of course.

The plastic suggestions are OK, but they really aren't for long-term storage.

After 2 months of bottle conditioning, I would prefer skunked beer in glass bottles to anything out of a plastic bottle.

I haven't tried the newer metal bottles with twist-off lids, but that's on my list.

Glass is preferred, and glass with re-usable lids would be ideal. Again... if using 3-oz [or less?] of priming sugar per 5-gallon batch... the need to tighten down "as hard as possible" might not be necessary, but still sufficiently hard, of course.

The thing that really inspired me to ask this is because my great-grandmother use to bottle/can beer when my grandfather was a kid, and I'm trying to figure out how they did it... I would figure mason jars would have been the obvious solution.

It would be nice to have some reusable bottles/jars around in a SHTF scenario, like the double great depression....... and you also had enough bulk grains and hops to make you thru that sh*t storm.

A few generations ago most homebrewed beer was bottled in swing-top bottles. A lot of commercial beers and other products came in them, and they were easy to find. I'm sure some people also "bottled" in canning jars, and dealt with all of the inherent problems.

The item that fits all of your criteria nearly perfectly, and is most likely what your grandparents and great-grandparents would have used, is swing-top bottles. The gaskets aren't indefinitely re-usable, but they'll last for several years of constant use, which is way more than you can expect out of salsa or canning jar lids. I'm guessing the salsa lids are only going to be 1-2 use items before needing to be replaced, in which case crown caps are still way cheaper. If you replace the swing-top gaskets with silicone ones, you'd likely be able to use them for many many years.

To buy amber swing-tops new they're roughly double the cost of your $1 salsa jars, but I see them much cheaper on craigslist and in the classifieds here fairly routinely. If you know someone who drinks beer that comes in swing-tops, or place a wanted ad somewhere, you might be able to pick some up for free. The owner of a local liquor store gave me a case of empty 750ml swing-tops last year because he knew I was a brewer and figured I could use them.

I don't know where you live, but if you were local I'd give you all of my green and clear swing-tops for free. I probably have about a dozen of them in various sizes.

 

[Yooper]

I just gave away about 50 Grolsch bottles! They are around, especially if you ask on Craigslist.

 

[ruralbrew]

The thing that really inspired me to ask this is because my great-grandmother use to bottle/can beer when my grandfather was a kid, and I'm trying to figure out how they did it... I would figure mason jars would have been the obvious solution.

You have to remember that back in those days Mason jars either had reusable lead lids or had glass swing tops with a rubber gasket, much like the the Grolsch bottles of today. And they were pretty much reserved for produce and meat.
Stoneware would have been the more obvious choice to bottle beer, but then again she might have just used glass bottles. They are far from a modern invention, and most every antique shop around has an old bottle capper.

 

[grndslm]

I just gave away about 50 Grolsch bottles! They are around, especially if you ask on Craigslist.

We've got enough Grolsch bottles to handle three 5-gallon batches, but I think the brown 22-oz bombers will taste better, so that's what we've been using.

Even the swing-tops need to have their gaskets replaced.

 

[grndslm]

Tattler re-usable lids...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051PDXCQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[carlisle_bob]

We've got enough Grolsch bottles to handle three 5-gallon batches, but I think the brown 22-oz bombers will taste better, so that's what we've been using.

Even the swing-tops need to have their gaskets replaced.

Hi

Mason jar lids aren't forever, salsa jar lids even less so. My suspicion is that a Grolsch gasket will out-last either one by a significant margin.

Bob

 

[Spicemon1972]

Here's an idea - do it and stop talking about it. Why not prove your point with a case study, that's what a scientific minded person would do. Make a 5 gallon batch, split it into 5 one gallon batches. Use one batch as a control group in standard 22 or 12 ounce bottles and prime with a standard amount of sugar. Use the other 4 gallons and bottle into mason jars at different priming levels, including one batch at the same level as your control group and successive gallons with gradiently more priming sugar. Mark them carefully and take pictures, notes etc. Condition all the batches at exactly the same temperature for the same amount of time. Then after several weeks, crack one of each batch open and compare the end product.
This way will answer the questions raised by everyone on this thread. Will mason jars hold carbonation, are they more prone to bottle bombs and everything else. You could do the same with salsa jars, mayonnaise jars or whatever other vessel you would like to test, just make sure to document your experiment and post back with your results. I am sure that everyone would be interested in the outcome.
If I were considering using other containers, which I am not, this is what I would do.

 

[Yooper]

We've got enough Grolsch bottles to handle three 5-gallon batches, but I think the brown 22-oz bombers will taste better, so that's what we've been using.

Even the swing-tops need to have their gaskets replaced.

Oh, boy, I hate to ask but I just have to know- why would 22 oz bombers taste better than 16 ounce bottles?

And you're right- those gaskets aren't "forever". I've only been using the same ones for 6 years. I might need a new one in the next 5-6 years, I'd imagine.

 

[carlisle_bob]

Oh, boy, I hate to ask but I just have to know- why would 22 oz bombers taste better than 16 ounce bottles?

And you're right- those gaskets aren't "forever". I've only been using the same ones for 6 years. I might need a new one in the next 5-6 years, I'd imagine.

Hi

22 ounces *always* tastes better, weather it's in one bottle or six...

Bob

 

[carlisle_bob]

We've got enough Grolsch bottles to handle three 5-gallon batches, but I think the brown 22-oz bombers will taste better, so that's what we've been using.....

Hi

If size is the issue, you can get swing tops up into at least the 64 ounce region.

Bob

 

[Airborneguy]

This is whole thread has to be a joke.

 

[dwarven_stout]

What a silly little boy.

 

[JuanMoore]

We've got enough Grolsch bottles to handle three 5-gallon batches, but I think the brown 22-oz bombers will taste better, so that's what we've been using.

The only reason it would taste better is because the green glass is more likely to lead to skunking, but you're talking about using clear glass which is even worse. You almost had me thinking you weren't a troll, but now you're just being ridiculous.

Even the swing-tops need to have their gaskets replaced.

Yep, once every 5-10 years depending on use, which I bet is longer than your reusable mason jar lids and gaskets last. The rings for the mason jars will also need to be replaced periodically, unlike the top of a swingtop bottle. I also wonder why you'd use a large plastic lid after claiming earlier that plastic doesn't work for long term storage.

 

[Revvy]

He's probably thinking that brown bottles are less apt to skunk than anything clear....But if one protects the clear bottles from light, then it really doesn't matter. At least what I think he's probably saying...